47000 people died last year because of my right to drink a beer. I voted against liquor by the drink but they are still dead. Of course it was legal. I would be perfectly happy not to drink beer and only 10000 died from drinking moonshine.

Plus there would be many times that many who would be killed by the mobsters who sell the moonshine. The end result would be MORE lives lost, not less.

If you want proof, read about prohibition in the USA. It was repealed partly because of the violence it created.

47000 people died last year because of my right to drink a beer. I voted against liquor by the drink but they are still dead. Of course it was legal. I would be perfectly happy not to drink beer and only 10000 died from drinking moonshine.

Plus there would be many times that many who would be killed by the mobsters who sell the moonshine. The end result would be MORE lives lost, not less.

If you want proof, read about prohibition in the USA. It was repealed partly because of the violence it created.

Violence and the massive increase in organized crime due to it.

---

In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

When our country was founded - the currency of the time was BOOZE and TOBACCO, the Continental was as worthless as a Royal Tax Stamp. Even George W. (not the Bush Variety) brewed beer and whiskey as currency. On becoming president he saw fit to tax booze rather than abolish it. This proved a good arrangement as long as the taxes were paid. BUT Lady Carrie convinced a lot of people different and we got the Rum runners, speaks, and a lot of ancilliary vices organized to take care of public pleasures. After a losing battle with us Masses they said - What the H### - lets just collect taxes and regulate the he## out of it. Tobacco escaped any Constitutional tinkering but not the tax collectors (which persists to this day) With tobacco and booze they tax not only the producers but also the distributors and also the users. We have states where prostitution is legal as long as it is taxed and regulated. If someone gets drunk he goes to jail. BUT if someone merely has weed he goes to jail even if he didn't smoke it (the old saw says POSESSION is 9/10 of the law). I think there are fewer DRUNKS in jail (at public expense) than there are those who posessed weed (and their term is longer and more expensive(at public expense). Even GAMBLING is legal now (as long as it is regulated and taxed). It's easier to tax and regulate rather than abolish. And for those arguing that public aid supports weed eaters - tell that to those who recently lost their jobs.

---

Classic WU= 7,237 Classic Hours= 42,079

Tom, time for a prediction:
You may as well resin up your bat and fill the Zippo because you're going to see cannabis decriminalized within your lifetime.

It'll probably happen here in Canada first.

Tom, time for a prediction:
You may as well resin up your bat and fill the Zippo because you're going to see cannabis decriminalized within your lifetime.

It'll probably happen here in Canada first.

IT's aleady RX'd here in some places - a step forward but I pray to my diety they tread cautiously on other substances.

---

Classic WU= 7,237 Classic Hours= 42,079

Here's a link to an interesting site...
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php

Illinois just raised the Tobacco Tax very significantly. Sales didn't drop off significantly. Now they want to raise the state sales tax. I wonder if the sales tax is based on the cost of the tobacco product or the cost of the product PLUS tobacco tax.
I'm thinking here we may have a case of double taxation - TAXING THE TAX.
And yes Alice - they raised the Alcohol Tax (except on BEER)
Double taxing Pot at street value would be a GOLD MINE for Springfield.

---

Classic WU= 7,237 Classic Hours= 42,079

OK, if pot does make you stupid, lazy, or whatever, then why am I working so hard in college? Why am I getting inducted into the honor society at college? I do smoke regularly, but I'm not ripped 24/7. I use responsibly.

If you're around alcoholics all of the time, then you may have a negative view of alcohol. If you're around responsible drinkers, then your opinion may be a bit different. Pot smokers are the same. You do have your lazy slacker types; you also have people who can use it responsibly. Don't lump everyone into the same category.

The whole argument that if drugs are legal, then you'd have a catastrophe on your hand as doctors and others use is pure BS. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? You don't see a large amount of doctors getting hammered at a bar before surgery. Alcohol is perfectly legal. You can also figure that doctors have access to some truly debilitating drugs as well. Yet you don't hear stories of large numbers of doctors doing drugs before doing medical procedures. Sure it does happen, it is not right, but it is not the norm.

Whatever someone puts into their own body should be their own business, as long as they are not harming anyone else. Non-violent users do not belong in jail for their use. If you do commit crimes to support your habit—other than simple possession or use, then you should expect to do time for those crimes you have committed. For the non-violent users, it would be far cheaper to have treatment available for them if they need it. It would be a better solution than filling up our jails and prisons with the non-violent offenders. Let’s get a little common sense in here.

I would support reasonable taxes on cannabis. If you tax us too steeply—like we do the poor tobacco smokers—than you’ll just encourage illegal grows. However with reasonable taxation, it could be a boon for the government. Distribution could be controlled, thus cutting down on teen use. (Drug dealers don’t check ID.) While there will always be those who abuse, you could reduce the harm that our current system is causing. Let us not forget how much money we would save by not pouring money into the failed “War on Drugs.”

There are no perfect solutions, but there are better ones then what we are doing today.

i think it is best to put users in jail.

Whatever someone puts into their own body should be their own business, as long as they are not harming anyone else.

Exactly!

Whatever someone puts into their own body should be their own business, as long as they are not harming anyone else.

Exactly!

Yes so when they kill enough brain cells they can't earn enough money to buy food and the substance they are addicted too, what does society do with them?

---

Whatever someone puts into their own body should be their own business, as long as they are not harming anyone else.

Exactly!

Yes so when they kill enough brain cells they can't earn enough money to buy food and the substance they are addicted too, what does society do with them?

You assume the purpose of society is to be a nanny? If you make poor decisions, you deserve what comes of you.

Whatever someone puts into their own body should be their own business, as long as they are not harming anyone else.

Exactly!

Yes so when they kill enough brain cells they can't earn enough money to buy food and the substance they are addicted too, what does society do with them?

You assume the purpose of society is to be a nanny? If you make poor decisions, you deserve what comes of you.

Human nature being what it is, when they run of of money they turn to crime. What does society do then? Feed them in a cage? Even if they don't steal to get food and drugs their body will have to be picked up and disposed of. Who pays for that? How about their carbon footprint or the carbon footprint of the person making and selling the drugs? What happens when they are found passed out from an overdose? Do the EMT's pack up and leave?

Society needs to decide these things now before they license use.

---

The big lie - alcohol and pot - "Nobody's hurt except the user"

Only the spouse, the children the business the user works for, the community he/she lives in.

Higher taxes to pay for more police, social services, medicaid.

More highway deaths, more crime, more wasted lives.

The only ones for it are alcoholics and drug users - "diminished capacity".

Users can't see they have a problem. They either sit in a corner admiring their belly button as their children wander the streets or are out on the streets themselves acting stupid or worse driving a vehicle while intoxicated.

---

Man - a creature made at the end of the week's work when God was tired. - Mark Twain

The big lie - alcohol and pot - "Nobody's hurt except the user"

Only the spouse, the children the business the user works for, the community he/she lives in.

Higher taxes to pay for more police, social services, medicaid.

More highway deaths, more crime, more wasted lives.

The only ones for it are alcoholics and drug users - "diminished capacity".

Users can't see they have a problem. They either sit in a corner admiring their belly button as their children wander the streets or are out on the streets themselves acting stupid or worse driving a vehicle while intoxicated.

The laws do not prevent users from obtaining drugs. Only the responsible (theoretically) follow the laws anyway. Those are probably the same people who would abstain from using drugs even if they were legal. Because that is the responsible thing to do.

Users can't see they have a problem.

Prohibitions do not work. Look at what happened in the USA when they tried to ban booze. Or guns. Or drugs. Or every government that tried to ban the oldest profession. The only ban that seems to have worked is atomic weapons and I have my doubts that will hold very much longer.

Society does need to decide what to do with addicts because they will always exist. No welfare. No drivers license. No child rearing. Lots of doors close to the addict, but he can get his legal pure drug. For some they will hit bottom, others won't until they die of an OD.

From what I've seen of addicts, it isn't weed that gets them started. I'm actually trying to remember if I know any that don't abuse tobacco and/or booze. I can't think of any, but I'm sure that are some. The point is that they have some different brain circuitry than the rest of us. Society needs to decide what to do with them. Do they contribute enough to keep them around or should the law of natural selection be allowed to operate?

If you ask me, go into the druggist, order up what you want, turn over your ID have it swiped, purchases sent to a state computer and depending on how much and how often you use it comes back stamped either "recreational user" or "addict." A heck of a lot better control than buying from a street corner pusher.

---

The big lie - alcohol and pot - "Nobody's hurt except the user"

Only the spouse, the children the business the user works for, the community he/she lives in.

Higher taxes to pay for more police, social services, medicaid.

More highway deaths, more crime, more wasted lives.

The only ones for it are alcoholics and drug users - "diminished capacity".

Users can't see they have a problem. They either sit in a corner admiring their belly button as their children wander the streets or are out on the streets themselves acting stupid or worse driving a vehicle while intoxicated.

I assume the assertion is then that anyone who uses alcohol in ANY amount is causing all these social calamities. Nobody can do anything in moderation. And finally since I support legalization I must be an alcoholic,a drug user, and have diminished capacity.
My taxes are quite high NOW with the county jail chock full of "posession" inmates and they want to enlarge it to accomodate more under existing laws. IF we eliminate the CRIME of posession - how many cells get free'd up? Ergo - is a bigger jail at taxpayer expense neccessary?
I can assure all I consume a 12 pack over a weekend - AT HOME, Had a contact high at a party 40 years ago, and only contemplate my navel in the shower to see if it has fuzz.

---

Classic WU= 7,237 Classic Hours= 42,079

The big lie - alcohol and pot - "Nobody's hurt except the user"

Only the spouse, the children the business the user works for, the community he/she lives in.

Higher taxes to pay for more police, social services, medicaid.

More highway deaths, more crime, more wasted lives.

The only ones for it are alcoholics and drug users - "diminished capacity".

Users can't see they have a problem. They either sit in a corner admiring their belly button as their children wander the streets or are out on the streets themselves acting stupid or worse driving a vehicle while intoxicated.

I assume the assertion is then that anyone who uses alcohol in ANY amount is causing all these social calamities. Nobody can do anything in moderation. And finally since I support legalization I must be an alcoholic,a drug user, and have diminished capacity.
My taxes are quite high NOW with the county jail chock full of "posession" inmates and they want to enlarge it to accomodate more under existing laws. IF we eliminate the CRIME of posession - how many cells get free'd up? Ergo - is a bigger jail at taxpayer expense neccessary?
I can assure all I consume a 12 pack over a weekend - AT HOME, Had a contact high at a party 40 years ago, and only contemplate my navel in the shower to see if it has fuzz.

I have to agree with you on this, Hal. The argument that leagalization of marijuana is, essentially, going to lead to the downfall of civilization as we know it is ludicrous on its face and historically unsupportable.
Legalization can lead to some good things. A safe, taxable product for those who care to imbibe - I do not and probably will not so this is not a self-serving argument. Far fewer people wasting the taxpayers dollars in jails and prisons, as you pointed out. And best of all, it will lead to the legalization of hemp production. Not only this country but the world will benefit from that one in more ways than I know of and I know of quite a few.

---

To the victor goes not only the spoils of war but, more importantly, the bias of history.

The big lie - alcohol and pot - "Nobody's hurt except the user"

Only the spouse, the children the business the user works for, the community he/she lives in.

Higher taxes to pay for more police, social services, medicaid.

More highway deaths, more crime, more wasted lives.

The only ones for it are alcoholics and drug users - "diminished capacity".

Users can't see they have a problem. They either sit in a corner admiring their belly button as their children wander the streets or are out on the streets themselves acting stupid or worse driving a vehicle while intoxicated.

I assume the assertion is then that anyone who uses alcohol in ANY amount is causing all these social calamities. Nobody can do anything in moderation. And finally since I support legalization I must be an alcoholic,a drug user, and have diminished capacity.
My taxes are quite high NOW with the county jail chock full of "posession" inmates and they want to enlarge it to accomodate more under existing laws. IF we eliminate the CRIME of posession - how many cells get free'd up? Ergo - is a bigger jail at taxpayer expense neccessary?
I can assure all I consume a 12 pack over a weekend - AT HOME, Had a contact high at a party 40 years ago, and only contemplate my navel in the shower to see if it has fuzz.

I have to agree with you on this, Hal. The argument that legalization of marijuana is, essentially, going to lead to the downfall of civilization as we know it is ludicrous on its face and historically unsupportable.
Legalization can lead to some good things. A safe, taxable product for those who care to imbibe - I do not and probably will not so this is not a self-serving argument. Far fewer people wasting the taxpayers dollars in jails and prisons, as you pointed out. And best of all, it will lead to the legalization of hemp production. Not only this country but the world will benefit from that one in more ways than I know of and I know of quite a few.

Not the downfall of civilization, but certainly there are a multitude of problems to be dealt with by others than the substance abusers themselves. Prohibition of alcohol did not work--there was too much social/cultural history to overcome--but abuse of alcohol does cost society in terms of drunk driving, physical abuse of family members, loss of employment and homelessness, among other issues.

You folks who support legalization of "recreational" drugs seem to believe that everyone will live responsibly and no one will over use, but that was not the case with alcohol. Drugs such as cocaine, marijuana and methamphetamine do not have the cultural roots that alcohol does, and I see no need to establish them as legitimate. Find some other way to get your kicks.

You folks who support legalization of "recreational" drugs seem to believe that everyone will live responsibly and no one will over use, but that was not the case with alcohol. Drugs such as cocaine, marijuana and methamphetamine do not have the cultural roots that alcohol does, and I see no need to establish them as legitimate. Find some other way to get your kicks.

I beg to differ on one point: Native American Indians use marijuana, peyote and hallucinogenic mushrooms as part of their culture since long before the United States was colonized.

---