Here is a useful litmus test: true scientists are very hard to live with for many reasons, not the least of which is that they are trained to analyze and to criticize everything until all imaginable alternatives are exhausted. This behavior generally occurs automatically without consideration of emotion or other human frailties until it is too late.

Any scientist will tell you that when you are entering new territory, there is no amount of preperation or analysis that will properly prepare you for the reality.

Sometimes, the best way to implement something is just to turn it on and tweak it until it works right.

Yes, AP is seti, or at least the next wave. Everybody probably can understand that, but AP is not the enhanced seti, and so, some may be confused. Plus, AP is not stable and therefore does not deserve to be considered production worthy. (I saw somewhere that even some of the developers aren't sure it is returning correct info-- and so people are hesitant to work on optimized clients for awhile.)

Nobody is getting personal here, about Matt & Co. or anyone else.

What I don't understand, or agree with, is their method. AP was turned on and the system began to puke. You can spin all you want, but the fact is that the server system was generally ok until the transition. Now it isn't. Given that problems were reported right away both by the users (willing and unwilling) and by the inner circle, I would have thought the thing to do would be to turn AP off, or throttle it severely, during periods when nobody was going to be around to patch a problem. This isn't being done. The consequence appears to be a loss of resource (cpu time and/or volunteer clients) that will take time to recapture.

And since neither what I, or anybody else thinks is binding on the project team, one shouldn't get one's panties in a bunch. Perhaps, if we gripe, cajol, and plead enough we may hit on something interesting or previously incorrectly ignored and something positive will come of this message board chatter. The converse isn't helpful at all. Can you imagine waking up every morning and your significant other tells how wonderful the world is with you in it? That would be one definition of Hell.

Here is a useful litmus test: true scientists are very hard to live with for many reasons, not the least of which is that they are trained to analyze and to criticize everything until all imaginable alternatives are exhausted. This behavior generally occurs automatically without consideration of emotion or other human frailties until it is too late.

Patient: Doctor, my foot hurts, and I just put these new shoes on.
Doctor: Take your shoes off.
Patient: (Takes shoes off) My foot still hurts!
Doctor: You have a bruise on your foot.
Patient: Oh, did I mention that a rock dropped on my foot?

My point is that the shoes didn't have anything to do with the foot hurting - it was the rock. So don't automatically blame Astropulse for the fact that something happened to a server and caused an outage...

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Mark

Sounds a bit like Clauswitz regarding military plans and first contact with the opposing force.

Any scientist will tell you that when you are entering new territory, there is no amount of preperation or analysis that will properly prepare you for the reality.

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Nobody is getting personal here, about Matt & Co. or anyone else.

What I don't understand, or agree with, is their method. AP was turned on and the system began to puke. You can spin all you want, but the fact is that the server system was generally ok until the transition.

My only concern here is that we're cause-jumping.

We see the SETI servers struggle, and we know that AstroPulse has been released on the main project.

So, we can jump on that as the cause, or we can take a deep breath and investigate the problem.

You could be right. That is certainly one change made recently.

We've also seen some things just flat break.

I've also seen mention of a batch of shorties, and last time we got hit with a long string of "shorties" the servers cratered.

That's all I'm saying. AstroPulse bears some investigation, but so do several other things.

We'll find out in the next few days.

---

Oh, please, folks. Stop with the artificial anecdotes and the Pollyanna spin doctoring.

Just review the message boards for the history. AP has caused a major disturbance in the system, largely due to apparently unforeseen storage issues and "ghost wu's". I'm all for moving to AP but right now the "try-it-and-see" method advocated below is simply wasting resources for chaotic gain, at best.

Myself, I'm in the "try-it-SLOWLY-AND-METHODICALLY-and-see" camp. But I believe I must be in the minority here. So I shall now get off my soap box, squat under a proper tree, and contemplate my navel.

had a nice weekend? i've more than enough from your annoying server issues. seems here is no more cpu-power needed, so i dumped s@h from all of my computers. other projekts are runnig MUCH better than this so-called "greatest projekt and leader of distributed computing". if i had a project called like this i would do anything to keep it runnig, even if i have to offer my weekend for.

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Oh, please, folks. Stop with the artificial anecdotes and the Pollyanna spin doctoring.

Just review the message boards for the history. AP has caused a major disturbance in the system, largely due to apparently unforeseen storage issues and "ghost wu's". I'm all for moving to AP but right now the "try-it-and-see" method advocated below is simply wasting resources for chaotic gain, at best.

Myself, I'm in the "try-it-SLOWLY-AND-METHODICALLY-and-see" camp. But I believe I must be in the minority here. So I shall now get off my soap box, squat under a proper tree, and contemplate my navel.

You've been here for a long time. So have I.

We've both seen lots of problems. They generally get sorted out.

If saying "diagnose first, then fix" is spin, then call me Pollyanna.

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Keep a cool tool. The guys will figures it all out and the sun will come up in the morning and yo' mama still loves you!

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had a nice weekend? i've more than enough from your annoying server issues. seems here is no more cpu-power needed, so i dumped s@h from all of my computers. other projekts are runnig MUCH better than this so-called "greatest projekt and leader of distributed computing". if i had a project called like this i would do anything to keep it runnig, even if i have to offer my weekend for.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Nobody is getting personal here, about Matt & Co. or anyone else.

What I don't understand, or agree with, is their method. AP was turned on and the system began to puke. You can spin all you want, but the fact is that the server system was generally ok until the transition.

My only concern here is that we're cause-jumping.

We see the SETI servers struggle, and we know that AstroPulse has been released on the main project.

So, we can jump on that as the cause, or we can take a deep breath and investigate the problem.

You could be right. That is certainly one change made recently.

We've also seen some things just flat break.

I've also seen mention of a batch of shorties, and last time we got hit with a long string of "shorties" the servers cratered.

That's all I'm saying. AstroPulse bears some investigation, but so do several other things.

We'll find out in the next few days.

There was more than one change made. They updated BONIC on the server side to the latest version. They attempted to turn on the file deleter on the Beta project which shares the same drives. It has never been on before. It also isn't deleting results. Bruno on the Beta side is down. They ran out of file space a few times recently. Way too many people are aborting AP units and it is causing a increase in the WU store because of that. Oh, yes, they let AP out of Beta where it had been working 100% fine with regular multi-beam WU's.

And I don't understand the problem anyway. You don't run just one project anyway. If you run out of Seti WU's it automatically gets others. When the pipes open up again you get all your credit. Is there some race going on where every .001 cobblestone has to be granted every 10 seconds because that is the race deadline? So you RAC falls a little today. When you get the credit it will zoom up higher that you can imagine. Take your screenshot then.

Gary

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Folks,

Note that the Boinc system and the s@h server setup are themselves all part of the experiment, all in parallel to the search for ET.

New bits get added, and some bits break or do unexpected things.

Things will get fixed, meanwhile the rest of the internet and the Boinc other projects continue as always.

It's all part of the experiment!

Happy crunchin',
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

The servers are down people. Again what is the point of posting all your upload/download errors.

Wait until Monday when the guys can get into the lab and have a look at what is going on, if anyone was available then I am sure someone would have been into the lab now to check on things.

For those that are running out of work then join another BOINC project for now and then set your workunit cache higher when everything is sorted.

Give the guys a few weekends a year off, they are humans like the rest of us and have a life outside the lab.

There is a ton of other things that go on behind the public side of Seti that the guys do as well, given the very limited resources for a project this size, cut some slack for them and don't be so inpatient.

Sorry if this seems harsh but if they can't get in to fix it until Monday then so be it. Expect a probably slightly longer outage on Tuesday and more than likely Monday as well while they sort things out.

Very wise and reasonable commented.....folks, take it easy!
If signals to/from other worlds take dozens/hundreds of years, allow SETI@home some days.My personal opinion.

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The servers are down people. Again what is the point of posting all your upload/download errors.

Wait until Monday when the guys can get into the lab and have a look at what is going on, if anyone was available then I am sure someone would have been into the lab now to check on things.

For those that are running out of work then join another BOINC project for now and then set your workunit cache higher when everything is sorted.

Give the guys a few weekends a year off, they are humans like the rest of us and have a life outside the lab.

There is a ton of other things that go on behind the public side of Seti that the guys do as well, given the very limited resources for a project this size, cut some slack for them and don't be so inpatient.

Sorry if this seems harsh but if they can't get in to fix it until Monday then so be it. Expect a probably slightly longer outage on Tuesday and more than likely Monday as well while they sort things out.

Very wise and reasonable commented.....folks, take it easy!
If signals to/from other worlds take dozens/hundreds of years, allow SETI@home some days.My personal opinion.

Well said.

Jim

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Thanks,
Jim

@ all who have no work (WUs)..



Your account/Computing preferences/

Computer is connected to the Internet about every x days

and/or

Maintain enough work for an additional x days


You know that you can insert here some infos? ;-D

So your PCs don't run out of work (WUs)! :-D

---

[quote]
@ all who have no work (WUs)..


*snip*

I have WU on my old xp machine, but none on my Vista one which seems odd, although when I went to bed last night I had none on either!

Uploads have stopped, but ofc that seems to be global, I guess we just have to wait and see!

Computer is connected to the Internet about every x days
and/or
Maintain enough work for an additional x days

I have connect every 2, additional=3
Through this weekend long outage, I've now completed half of my WUs.
After the Tuesday outage I'll be getting low.
So sad. Stop micro managing Boinc.

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I have a machine that spends M-F behind a benighted firewall and cannot contact BOINC servers, only weekends can it upload/download. This weekend is lost to that, well, ok, but now I have WUs that were "due" today and tomorrow, and will not get uploaded prolly until the 16th. So extend a grace period for folks like me, K?

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maintain enough work... oh yeah. these options where set to five days and the server collapsed just after i could get the first wave of WUs after adding my machines. very cool and useful under these circumstandes - out of work after a couple of hours.

and just don't worry about doors or walls in my way out. if there is one, it will become a clean human-shaped hole on my run straight thru.

If ET is out there and they monitor this message board. What would they think of all this babble? Grown people at odds about nothing. It'll get fixed when it get fixed.

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Don't cry be patient

I just download two WU at 15h 45 UTC+2

After downloading new client Seti and last version of Boinc 6.2.16,
my AP WU was destroy and lost but I've two new WU for Seti and alway no uploadind

Wait and see