SETI Belongs To You?
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SETI Belongs To You?
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 cRunchy  Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 3555 Credit: 1,920,030 RAC: 3 
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As a cruncher / member of SETI (even if only occasionally involved in the forums) do you think SETI belongs to you? I am not talking about who owns the infrastructure or about legality or who has more power. I'm asking whether you think SETI belongs to you because you are an integral part of SETI? Do you think that you and your fellow members are the most valuable parts of the project? What about the forums? We know there will always be problems when we chat in public but do you think we are capable of controlling our own environment? (Are the SETI forums 'our' environment to start with?) I know Berkeley owns SETI in terms of legality but do we (you and I) not own the life and efforts of this project? How would you describe your affiliation, belonging, membership, crunching or ownership of the SETI project? Do you just crunch or do you have a sense of belonging or ownership? ? === (Please do not complain about the mods'/admins as this is not what this thread is about.) (Mods': This is not a political post. It's about membership and community. Please don't move it to the "Politics" section of the forum. Just delete it if you do not like it.) ID: 750283 ·  |
AndyW   Send message Joined: 23 Oct 02 Posts: 5862 Credit: 10,957,677 RAC: 18
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I don't consider I "own" anything here. I am a guest of the project Admin. I have been invited to partake in a scientifically important project. I accepted that invitation. Nothing was promised or is owed to me. It is what it is, an invitation to partake. ID: 750285 · |
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AndyW Send message Joined: 23 Oct 02 Posts: 5862 Credit: 10,957,677 RAC: 18
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I'm going to move this over to the SETI@Home forum as it is a topic specifically about SETI. ID: 750288 · |
kittyman     Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51468 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 
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Well......your post actually asks a couple of different questions........ On one hand, you ask if we (the users) feel that Seti belongs to us..... On the other hand, you ask if we feel that we have a sense of belonging to the project....... My view is that Seti does not 'belong' to us......we have volunteered to contribute our efforts in the way of computer resources to the project by choice. On the other hand, I feel that Seti is somewhat beholden to us for doing so, for without our contributions in both computing power and actual cash contributions, the project would wither away...... Having said that, I do not think that Seti will wither away... The fractional number of us users who post on these forums would not immediately cause Seti to falter if we all went away.....however I think it would have a long term effect if the users who come to the forums and never post here did not see the interest expressed by those of us who do. Seti is owned, controlled, and powered by Berkely in one form or another, we are just contributors. That does not mean that we should have no say in the way it is administered. It is in Seti's best interests to keep us all happy to be here by all reasonable means......happy crunchers are good crunchers, and in some cases...cash contributors. I have never disagreed with those who say thing could be different or better, I just will not hold the project hostage and leave because things may not be running as I see fit. I will still continue to contribute and campaign for changes that may make things work more to my liking........ "Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster 
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Helsionium  Send message Joined: 24 Dec 06 Posts: 156 Credit: 86,214,817 RAC: 43 
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Sorry, but no one will be able to find this thread in the SETI@home Science board... Café SETI was a much better choice in my opinion... On topic: I don't think SETI@home or any part thereof actually belongs to me or any other participant, even if the project depends entirely on its participants. IMO, Even if signs of ETI are discovered by the project, neither the "discoverers" nor the project admins can rightfully claim to have discovered it.  
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cRunchy Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 3555 Credit: 1,920,030 RAC: 3
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I don't consider I "own" anything here. I am a guest of the project Admin. I have been invited to partake in a scientifically important project. I accepted that invitation. Nothing was promised or is owed to me. It is what it is, an invitation to partake. OK. In Urdu / Hindi (the official / broad language of India, Pakistan, reaching out to over a billion odd people et al) I would say "Paas" to mean "I own" or "something belongs to me".. ('Ye Mera Paas Hai' = roughly = 'That is mine'.) However in reality the word "paas" means "something is near to me".. I did not quite mean ownership in the sense of 'absolute control'.. I meant it in the communal sense of 'belonging'... (EG: I own and am 'owned' by my local community. I belong to it and it belongs to me. We are integral....) It's an interesting definition where we are just "invitees" though. ID: 750303 · |
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cRunchy Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 3555 Credit: 1,920,030 RAC: 3
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I'm going to move this over to the SETI@Home forum as it is a topic specifically about SETI. I knew it would be moved... I so much wanted to discuss the issue with my fellow crunchers... It was about what members of SETI thought and nothing to do with SETI as you see it. It's about what 'members' think about their own involvement and value.... (We could be talking about any project... I am talking about peoples value upon their volunteering.... SETI yes because we are here..) Believe it or not I do not start threads to cause problems. It was not a thread about mods, admins or SETI per-ce. It could have been quite an interesting thread. Now it has been relegated to nowhere. Normally I would ask for a thread that was moved without my agreement (as the thread starter / owner) to be removed because it had been re-interpreted beyond the meaning I gave to the thread initially..) however please keep the thread here as a symbol of how members (mine.. I assume I am a member?) words are just either shoved asside to another thread or ... deleted (as I think I might be soon...) (Am I going to be banned again?) Oh Pants :( You are right in your earlier thread though... We do not belong.. We do not own.. We are just invitees who are expendable, movable and deletable! . You have taken away my words... How else should I react? . ID: 750305 · |
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AndyW Send message Joined: 23 Oct 02 Posts: 5862 Credit: 10,957,677 RAC: 18
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I should be saying "oh pants" and apologising because I made a bad call earlier and shoved this in the SETI@home science forum and it really doesn't belong here. It's more of a political type question, so I'll shift this over to the Political forum - where I am sure it will attract more discussion. Apologies all - still finding my feet :) ID: 750326 · |
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kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51468 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004
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No apologies needed, my friend....... "Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster
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kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51468 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004
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I don't consider I "own" anything here. I am a guest of the project Admin. I have been invited to partake in a scientifically important project. I accepted that invitation. Nothing was promised or is owed to me. It is what it is, an invitation to partake. Oh, we certainly are in a symbiotic relationship.......they cannot exist without us, and some of us might find it hard to exist without them.....(at least us hardcore Seti addicts....) And without both of us working together we will never find evidence of THEM...... "Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster
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cRunchy Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 3555 Credit: 1,920,030 RAC: 3
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You have moved my thread from the 'Cafe' to 'SETI@Home' and now to 'Politics' forum... The "Politics" forum is not where I started or wanted this thread but it's better here than no-where. (I still want it in the cafe but I understand I have zero choice over the place and context of my words.) It's OK I guess. Let's get back to the thread: "SETI Belongs To You?" - Belongs to us? . ID: 750335 · |
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AndyW Send message Joined: 23 Oct 02 Posts: 5862 Credit: 10,957,677 RAC: 18
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You're welcome. ID: 750337 · |
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kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51468 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004
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We are but just humble crunchers.....those of us who are more interested in the project than in the semantics of those administering it will continue to crunch on and make polite requests to the powers that be. Some will be taken up, some will be ignored. The question is..........do you feel lucky....well, do ya punk? Oops.....free associating....... I really feel that those who wish to stay here because of their interest in the project or their convictions about the project's goals will always stay.....because their hope that the end goal will someday be reached will outweigh the negatives in the day to day progression of the project...... Yes, I would luv to see a stargraph indicating what signals we have received and analyzed so far....I luv eyecandy......it's surprising how little it take to keep one's interest sometimes....a little more feedback. Matt's technical notes have been the most significant thing to me as of late.....having somebody in the project actually tell us what has gone on from day to day is a great thing........if you are a computer geek......and to those of us who are, it is some wonderful feedback....you didn't see that going on six months ago.........may be trivial to him, but at least he takes the time to put it forth in a post for us to take part in........ Sorry folks, but as far as the project itself is concerned, I am the ultimate 'yes man' and will remain so...... And that does not mean I have not, and will not, voice my opinions on occasion when they run contrary to some people's thoughts...... 'Polite expression' of opinions is what the forums are about...... I have transgressed this rule on a few occasions, and have apologized profusely for it..... I move on.......meoooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwww. "Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster
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Gavin Shaw  Send message Joined: 8 Aug 00 Posts: 1116 Credit: 1,304,337 RAC: 0 
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Perhaps the real question should be: "Do you feel like you belong here?" Or "Do you feel welcome here as part of the 'team'?" ... Never surrender and never give up. In the darkest hour there is always hope. ID: 750353 · |
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kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51468 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004
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Perhaps the real question should be: "Do you feel like you belong here?" For me......the answer is always.........yes. "Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster
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cRunchy Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 3555 Credit: 1,920,030 RAC: 3
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SNIP.......... Is that a 'value' statement? I am interested in the project as a cruncher (my RAC, user name and avatar never changed even when I was away from the forums or was on the ban list..) but I am also interested in the administration of the project. Neither need be separate issues although some prefer a difference.
The thread is about what individuals feel. Whether they feel a sense of belonging or 'ownership' of SETI. The thread is not about who wants to stay or go.
I can't say I have always been 'polite.' I know I am 'direct' and verbose at times. ... but I doubt even you could say that you do not have a sense of 'belonging'... and with a sense of 'belonging' does not a sense of 'ownership' follow? (Ergo: 'Ownership' meaning we are at least in part (however small) in control or of influence..) Without a sense of belonging at least we would not feel so free to communicate in public. It would be nice to hear from crunchers who had only just joined in SETI or these forums or who have not posted to the forums for a while. . ID: 750364 · |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20291 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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As a cruncher / member of SETI (even if only occasionally involved in the forums) do you think SETI belongs to you? Very simply, no. We are merely a part of the experiment called "Boinc". We are also a part of the experiment to see if s@h can continue to exist on minimal or zero funding. As an 'aside', we hope that our efforts are making good use of a highly valuable resource that would otherwise go to waste. That is, we make much better use of already available computing resource that would otherwise be idle and lost. The forums are a bit of "PR" and fun. They could also form a social and psychology experiment in their own right! Happy crunchin', Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 750378 · |
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cRunchy Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 3555 Credit: 1,920,030 RAC: 3
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As a cruncher / member of SETI (even if only occasionally involved in the forums) do you think SETI belongs to you? That's almost exactly what everyone else has said that has responded to this thread. Strangely everyone that said that SETI does 'not belong to us also had an enourmous RAC? It is a matter of perspective and maybe a matter of what we are willing to accept (it may also be a matter of whether we like this or that word.) Martin: You talk about SETI as if it was just something less than a tertiary activity. (You said: "We are merely a part of the experiment called "Boinc"."...) Martin: Your RAC is 16 times mine. There are people who also say there is no 'belonging' who's RACS are multiples of yours. Such high investments yet such low expectations suggest non of you are being completely honest. Unless of course you are so wealthy computer, replacement or electricity wise that (or that those with high RACs don't use their own PCs or pay for the electricity: Ergo they have simply use their bussineses or co-opt their work place machines) it doesn't affect them or matter too much. Can any of you tell me why you should invest so many of your computers given the effort on your part and the cost to you or your companies but still say you have no concept of affiliation, belonging or ownership. My PC runs BOINC 24/7 and it's my main PC. It is important to me. I wouldn't run my only PC so hard unless the task involved was important to me. To think that all I am doing is being a part of Boinc 'experimentation' is just crazy. However as people so far have suggested it may well be so... PS: Is there a correlation between those who have higher or lower RACs and their ideas and values about SETI? Is there a correlation between RACs and those who post to different parts of these forums (EG: Politics v Cafe?)? Is there a correlation between posts that start off in the Cafe and get dumped in the Politics forum and a reduction in expected / potential broad responses? I would be interesting to hear from people with low average RACs (just 1 PC) to see whether they think SETI belongs to them? . ID: 750419 · |
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Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79
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I would still run BOINC even if there were no message boards for a sense of community. (If you're going to consider RAC, you need to consider combined RAC, not just here at S@H.) Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes. ID: 750466 · |
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kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51468 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004
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As a cruncher / member of SETI (even if only occasionally involved in the forums) do you think SETI belongs to you? Begorra, Crunch.......you have asked so many questions in one post.......I will try to cut and paste an answer or two......... "That's almost exactly what everyone else has said that has responded to this thread." Well, you should expect that, 'cuz those that care most about the project are usually most likely to respond...... "There are people who also say there is no 'belonging' who's RACS are multiples of yours." I think that is an unfair comment......I personally have responded and tried to help users with RACs in the double digits.....they are friends of mine if they wish to contribute to the project.... "Unless of course you are so wealthy computer, replacement or electricity wise that (or that those with high RACs don't use their own PCs or pay for the electricity: Ergo they have simply use their bussineses or co-opt their work place machines) it doesn't affect them or matter too much." I am on the verge of going bust.......have spent all of my spare cash on keeping the crunchers running......it's my passion...pardon me for that if you will, or won't. It affects me a lot. "Can any of you tell me why you should invest so many of your computers given the effort on your part and the cost to you or your companies but still say you have no concept of affiliation, belonging or ownership." I never said I had no feeling of belonging........do you not read the forums???? I feel that I belong here a bunch, all kitty references aside.........and apparently many others do too. So lay that one to waste.......... "Is there a correlation between RACs and those who post to different parts of these forums (EG: Politics v Cafe?)?" No............not Politics VS Cafe............maybe Cafe VS NC......different venues, different agendas....... "Is there a correlation between posts that start off in the Cafe and get dumped in the Politics forum and a reduction in expected / potential broad responses?" Well, some post in the Cafe knowing well off that their expected response will land their post in the Political forum due to the tender nature of their post...and they know it.....so don't ask for any apologies there...... I hope I have taken the time to answer most of your questions.....if you have any more....the kitties will be happy to respond........ "Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster
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