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Message 761545 - Posted: 1 Jun 2008, 2:40:30 UTC - in response to Message 761473.  

... After all, it is a crappy product.

Good you don't reserve judgement whatever the product and source :-)


I've been studying for exams for the last four hours and my brain is a little fried, so pardon me if I'm a little thick-skulled at the moment, but are you saying that sarcastically or are you happy that there's a Microsoft product that I dislike and I'm not completely biased in Microsoft's favor (which I've tried to show all along)?
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Message 761646 - Posted: 1 Jun 2008, 12:07:25 UTC - in response to Message 761545.  

... After all, it is a crappy product.

Good you don't reserve judgement whatever the product and source :-)


I've been studying for exams for the last four hours and my brain is a little fried, so pardon me if I'm a little thick-skulled at the moment, but are you saying that sarcastically or are you happy that there's a Microsoft product that I dislike and I'm not completely biased in Microsoft's favor (which I've tried to show all along)?


*rolls eyes*





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Message 761656 - Posted: 1 Jun 2008, 13:15:25 UTC - in response to Message 761646.  

... After all, it is a crappy product.

Good you don't reserve judgement whatever the product and source :-)

... but are you saying that sarcastically or are you happy that there's a Microsoft product that I dislike and I'm not completely biased in Microsoft's favor (which I've tried to show all along)?

More deadpan than sarcastic.

No I'm not happy in any special way for your dislike of whatever of Microsoft.

That was more an encouraging comment of your "not completely biased".

My view of what you seem to show is that you very nicely fit into Microsoft's central Marketing niche, which includes aspects of lock-in.

( More humoursly: )
There are some very comfortable jails for some. I guess there are some very uncomfortable monasteries for some. The question is whether you have a choice about it.



*rolls eyes*

Towards Heaven or Hell?

(We are trying to show the path to the True Light after all! :-p )


More seriously:

I have no OS loyalty other than for what I have found to be a combination of whatever is technically the best and most usefully productive.

Unfortunately, that often gets obscured by a "them" and "us" or "dictator" and "underdog" view regarding Microsoft. Those aspects have certainly been sharply accentuated by the extremely aggressive statements and actions from senior people in Microsoft and their various attempts to effectively destroy Linux.


Happy crunchin',
Martin

ps: For the humour impaired or where English is not your first language, the comment in brackets "(" ")" is my vain attempt at humour :-)

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Message 761658 - Posted: 1 Jun 2008, 13:16:12 UTC - in response to Message 761646.  

... After all, it is a crappy product.

Good you don't reserve judgement whatever the product and source :-)


I've been studying for exams for the last four hours and my brain is a little fried, so pardon me if I'm a little thick-skulled at the moment, but are you saying that sarcastically or are you happy that there's a Microsoft product that I dislike and I'm not completely biased in Microsoft's favor (which I've tried to show all along)?


*rolls eyes*


Well pardon me if I happen to like Microsoft OSes and some of their other software. That doesn't make me biased.
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Message 761663 - Posted: 1 Jun 2008, 13:28:53 UTC - in response to Message 761656.  
Last modified: 1 Jun 2008, 13:37:09 UTC

My view of what you seem to show is that you very nicely fit into Microsoft's central Marketing niche, which includes aspects of lock-in.


Maybe I do. Or maybe Microsoft actually fills a niche that some people are happy with. It takes all kinds of product offerings to make diverse a marketplace.

( More humoursly: )
There are some very comfortable jails for some. I guess there are some very uncomfortable monasteries for some. The question is whether you have a choice about it.


I get the humor, but the statement also shows your views. Facetiously: why does it have to be jails or monasteries? Why can't it be contentment and comfort? I can understand and respect that for you and others Microsoft is a hell of its own, but that doesn't make it so for everybody. If people are happy, then you (collectively) should just let them be. If they are unhappy, I can understand offering them an alternative. That you believe they would be happier if they switched is irrelevant, because you do not know for certain that they will be, as is the case for me.


(We are trying to show the path to the True Light after all! :-p )


Oh come on! ;)

Those aspects have certainly been sharply accentuated by the extremely aggressive statements and actions from senior people in Microsoft and their various attempts to effectively destroy Linux.


I still don't think you have anything to worry about. I don't believe for one second that with all the force behind making Linux successful and all the people helping to make it a better product that Microsoft will ever be able to kill Linux.

ps: For the humour impaired or where English is not your first language, the comment in brackets "(" ")" is my vain attempt at humour :-)


You forgot to put the previous quote in quotation marks. (See my comment: "Oh come on!) ;)
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Message 761707 - Posted: 1 Jun 2008, 15:52:37 UTC - in response to Message 761658.  

... After all, it is a crappy product.

Good you don't reserve judgement whatever the product and source :-)


I've been studying for exams for the last four hours and my brain is a little fried, so pardon me if I'm a little thick-skulled at the moment, but are you saying that sarcastically or are you happy that there's a Microsoft product that I dislike and I'm not completely biased in Microsoft's favor (which I've tried to show all along)?


*rolls eyes*


Well pardon me if I happen to like Microsoft OSes and some of their other software. That doesn't make me biased.


My reaction is in response to the way you react, in a very negative and suspicous way towards anyone who favors Linux.



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Message 761730 - Posted: 1 Jun 2008, 16:35:56 UTC - in response to Message 761663.  
Last modified: 1 Jun 2008, 16:38:57 UTC

Maybe I do. Or maybe Microsoft actually fills a niche that some people are happy with. It takes all kinds of product offerings to make diverse a marketplace.

I very much agree.

However, Microsoft has shown itself to be extraordinarily aggressive and successful in stifling such positive diversity. That makes for a stifled, slow, and overly expensive marketplace.

I get the humor, but the statement also shows your views. Facetiously: why does it have to be jails or monasteries?

I try to be open about my views and reasons. Is the "jails and monasteries" not a fair analogy?

Why can't it be contentment and comfort?

Or is ignorance of anything different a contented bliss?

Perhaps Microsoft and the Microsoft Marketing have become too pervasive and too successful in convincing people that there is nothing else and that there is no other way?

... If people are happy, then you (collectively) should just let them be. ...

That would be easy and fine if such acquiescence was not spreading such a frightful amount of mess and waste and cost for everyone else around, and for themselves. The continued onslaught of viruses, trojans, and the majority of malware continues to be uniquely a Microsoft (supported?) phenomenon. All other OSes stopped that mess dead very early in their developments. Why not so for Microsoft?

I consider that we all are forced to pay a price because of Microsoft whether we use Microsoft or not.

... I don't believe for one second that with all the force behind making Linux successful and all the people helping to make it a better product that Microsoft will ever be able to kill Linux.

There are still the very expensive delaying tactics and deliberate FUD spread to cause yet further delay and expense. Microsoft even sell Linux themselves now...


The sooner we can get some honest competition, the better. Until then, I consider the computing world is being very expensively held back to everyone's detriment and cost.


Sorry, same story!

Happy crunchin',
Martin

(All my own personal views and opinion. Please investigate to find your own story!)
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Message 761755 - Posted: 1 Jun 2008, 17:45:40 UTC - in response to Message 758196.  

being able to have 4 desktops in one windowing system is hardly imaginative. Its downright confusing

I only use 2... ;)

I only use 1.....

That's bad enough sometimes.
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Message 761762 - Posted: 1 Jun 2008, 18:03:38 UTC - in response to Message 761730.  
Last modified: 1 Jun 2008, 18:34:01 UTC

Why can't it be contentment and comfort?
I try to be open about my views and reasons. Is the "jails and monasteries" not a fair analogy? Or is ignorance of anything different a contented bliss?

Perhaps Microsoft and the Microsoft Marketing have become too pervasive and too successful in convincing people that there is nothing else and that there is no other way?


Well, let's take me for example. I'm well aware that something else exists, and I still dislike the alternative. All this despite claims that Microsoft has convinced people that nothing else exists and there is no other way. Conversely, I know a couple handfuls of people that know there's something else out there yet don't like the alternatives. Once you cross that line of consistently trying to educate someone you've already made aware, you start to become pushy, and most people I know don't like pushy and will purposely resist due to this pressure (and no, I'm not necessarily referring to myself here).

I can appreciate wanting to educate the masses, but once you've already educated someone and they aren't taking to the idea, then perhaps moving on would be a good suggestion.

And no, I don't fee "jails and monasteries" are good analogies to the situation.


That would be easy and fine if such acquiescence was not spreading such a frightful amount of mess and waste and cost for everyone else around, and for themselves. The continued onslaught of viruses, trojans, and the majority of malware continues to be uniquely a Microsoft (supported?) phenomenon. All other OSes stopped that mess dead very early in their developments. Why not so for Microsoft?

I consider that we all are forced to pay a price because of Microsoft whether we use Microsoft or not.


I don't believe that for one second. There will always be exploits in software, and all it takes is an enterprising individual to take an opportunity to utilize that vulnerability to their advantage. Don't believe for one second that if Linux were the dominant OS in the marketplace that it wouldn't be targeted and exploited as well. Even if they do patch things quickly, it still requires people to apply those patches, and there will always be other holes.

(All my own personal views and opinion. Please investigate to find your own story!)


I already have. Just because I didn't come to the same conclusions as you, doesn't mean I haven't investigated. :-p

Michael Buckingham wrote:
My reaction is in response to the way you react, in a very negative and suspicous way towards anyone who favors Linux.


Its not only people who favor Linux. Don't take things so personally. I'm equally suspicious of all people. If I cared to explain some details of my life (and I don't care to), then I'm sure you'd understand.
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Message 761794 - Posted: 1 Jun 2008, 20:28:33 UTC - in response to Message 761762.  

"jails and monasteries"

Same cell, different view... ;)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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Message 761877 - Posted: 2 Jun 2008, 2:04:26 UTC - in response to Message 761794.  

"jails and monasteries"

Same cell, different view... ;)

Wow! Someone has seen the light!

Exactly so.

The question is that of why for whichever view :-)

Keep searchin',
Martin


(ps: Apologies to "Rush" if he thinks that is too vague or too abstract.)


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Message 761879 - Posted: 2 Jun 2008, 2:12:28 UTC - in response to Message 761762.  
Last modified: 2 Jun 2008, 2:25:00 UTC

[...]
[...]
I consider that we all are forced to pay a price because of Microsoft whether we use Microsoft or not.

I don't believe that for one second. There will always be exploits in software, ... Don't believe for one second that if Linux were the dominant OS in the marketplace that it wouldn't be targeted and exploited as well. Even if they do patch things quickly, it still requires people to apply those patches, and there will always be other holes.

(All my own personal views and opinion. Please investigate to find your own story!)

I already have. Just because I didn't come to the same conclusions as you, doesn't mean I haven't investigated. :-p

And there is the basis for our difference of opinion.

From what I've seen of the workings of the various Windows OSes, I view them as being broken and vulnerable by design. Note that makes no comment about how the broken design came about. Perhaps most of the problem is the hubris from the days of Windows as a single user non-networked shell on top of DOS. The latest results appear to be still a single user system but with multitasking and multi-user profiles.

Apple and Linux have enough of an internet presence to be very high kudos targets. Especially so in that Linux drives most internet servers... And yet there are no viable viruses for them. There's also rather few exploits, and none that persist anything like as happens for the Windows world...

With the effective monopoly status of Microsoft, and their vast resources, why are viruses still such a problem? So much of a problem that there is now big business in running "botnets" of Microsoft zombie machines...!


Regards,
Martin

(Just my view and opinion.)
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Message 761880 - Posted: 2 Jun 2008, 2:16:57 UTC - in response to Message 761755.  
Last modified: 2 Jun 2008, 2:17:38 UTC

being able to have 4 desktops in one windowing system is hardly imaginative. Its downright confusing

I only use 2... ;)

I only use 1.....

That's bad enough sometimes.

Does a tty text terminal count as a "0"?

And that can get hard on the eyes sometimes even!

Cheers,
Martin
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Message 761889 - Posted: 2 Jun 2008, 2:55:52 UTC

Still fighting with this one.... My Vista backup file is a .XML extension file. It is on a separate partition of the same disk that Vista is on(no recovery disks). Vista is corrupted, and wont even load to a recovery screen. Due to adding a 2nd hard drive, I now have XP access to the Vista HDD, and also the Backup HDD partition. Is there a program that will restore that .XML file, and the whole disk/Vista OS from it?

Thanks in advance,

Mark
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Message 761897 - Posted: 2 Jun 2008, 3:20:31 UTC - in response to Message 761889.  
Last modified: 2 Jun 2008, 3:22:09 UTC

Still fighting with this one.... My Vista backup file is a .XML extension file. It is on a separate partition of the same disk that Vista is on(no recovery disks). Vista is corrupted, and wont even load to a recovery screen. Due to adding a 2nd hard drive, I now have XP access to the Vista HDD, and also the Backup HDD partition. Is there a program that will restore that .XML file, and the whole disk/Vista OS from it?

Thanks in advance,

Mark


Give this a try. http://neosmart.net/blog/2008/windows-vista-recovery-disc-download/
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Message 761903 - Posted: 2 Jun 2008, 3:45:48 UTC

I just intentionally wiped Vista. I'm sick of it. I've had to reinstall my camera Surveillance software several times now. The final straw was when it no longer recognized the hardware DVR (Digital video recorder) for it.

MS needs to fix the annoying security warning problem. I'm all for extra security but after allowing a program to run 20 times, you would think the warnings would stop. Maybe there's a way to stop it for specified programs..don't know and don't care anymore.

I might reinstall in a few months after they get the bugs out. If they get the bugs out. Meanwhile, I have a very expensive Vista Ultimate cup coaster.

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Message 761909 - Posted: 2 Jun 2008, 4:14:19 UTC - in response to Message 761903.  

MS needs to fix the annoying security warning problem.

I agree... Apple has been doing this since the day someone wrote a shell script to delete the users home directory, placed it in an applescript, and disguised it as an mp3 file... The only difference being, once the application is verified, unless something changes, the warnings don't keep repeating... ;)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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Message 761911 - Posted: 2 Jun 2008, 4:37:35 UTC - in response to Message 761897.  

Still fighting with this one.... My Vista backup file is a .XML extension file. It is on a separate partition of the same disk that Vista is on(no recovery disks). Vista is corrupted, and wont even load to a recovery screen. Due to adding a 2nd hard drive, I now have XP access to the Vista HDD, and also the Backup HDD partition. Is there a program that will restore that .XML file, and the whole disk/Vista OS from it?

Thanks in advance,

Mark


Give this a try. http://neosmart.net/blog/2008/windows-vista-recovery-disc-download/


Thanks, going to give it a try momentarily! :)
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Message 762070 - Posted: 2 Jun 2008, 14:25:56 UTC

Finally found what corrupted my net......

Got everything back up & running yesterday afternoon & breathed a sigh of relief.

Yesterday evening, I reattached the Vista Ultimate rig & bingo, down she goes.

Just finished(again) net up & running, only this time no Vista!!!!!

You would have thought that these 2 new O'S's would work hand-in-hand!

Under XP, it is straight forward but to use Vista, I have to use workarounds? Sorry, not acceptable..........HASTA LA Vista, Microsoft!
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Message 762096 - Posted: 2 Jun 2008, 15:51:34 UTC - in response to Message 761879.  

Apple and Linux have enough of an internet presence to be very high kudos targets. Especially so in that Linux drives most internet servers... And yet there are no viable viruses for them. There's also rather few exploits, and none that persist anything like as happens for the Windows world...


But Microsoft is a bigger target - and its not just servers that hackers go after, its the installed base of systems. Its all the clients. Apple and Linux hold less than, what, 10%? Windows hosts hold more than 90%. Hackers are going to go after the big pig.

Just because no one has written a virus for Linux, doesn't mean it can't be done, same with exploits. It just generally isn't worth it to find them being that even if they do find the exploits, they're only going to get a small portion of the computers out there.


No, we indeed disagree. But the fundamental problem is that Linux and Apple do not have enough of a presence to warrant targeting. I would still bet my entire life savings on the fact that if Apple or Linux were as dominant as Windows on the desktop that viruses and trojans would be just as prevalent. You're creating a false sense of security for yourself and those you wish to "show the light".

And there's no point in targeting Linux servers because generally they're handled by very able people who know how to harden them and look for potential problems. The "average" user who might install Linux on their desktop would never even know if they've been hit by a trojan or not, just like they never even know it with Windows.

I've no doubt that Microsoft's OS isn't perfect (nor is their code). But neither is any other OS, Linux included.
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