Millions denied access to dentistry in the UK

Message boards : Politics : Millions denied access to dentistry in the UK
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 · 2

AuthorMessage
John McLeod VII
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 15 Jul 99
Posts: 24806
Credit: 790,712
RAC: 0
United States
Message 724428 - Posted: 11 Mar 2008, 1:33:51 UTC - in response to Message 721364.  

Neocons are to blame? Actually naivety is the more likely culprit.


Clearly the facts speak for themselves...


Here’s a news article that was on the news last night that may be of interest to both of you regarding your beloved privatized health care system.

Las Vegas clinic accused of reusing syringes

If you Google the issue you will find the practice is wide spread and has been on going for years.

Syringe Reuse Transmits Infection

This is knowingly infecting patients with deadly diseases by Neo-cons for the sake of squeezing that last buck out of the system. Put in another way, it’s premeditated murder for profit. Ignorance is no excuse.


Some of us already know the government cuts corners...perhaps you should learn the difference between private institutions and publicly funded clinics.

The Southern Nevada Health District is: funded roughly one-third from federal grants, one-third from fees and one-third from local taxes.

http://www.southernnevadahealthdistrict.org/general_information.htm

And private business don't cut corners every chance they get? Oh Please. Locally, we had a restaurant that was closed with the lowest health score ever - a 13 out of 100. Anyone remember the Pinto fiasco where the car manufacturer saved a nickel on every car at the expense of lives? The calculation was it would cost less to have the survivors of a few dead people sue than to spend the extra nickel per car to make the cars safer. Back on topic, hospital acquired infections are preventable - but there is an upfront cost. My wife recently was visiting an ICU where they were letting people into the ICU rooms in street clothes - not a good idea because some of the people in ICU are imunocompromised, and adding extra viruses, bacteria, and fungi is just not a good idea. Doors were also open between the patient rooms - so coughs and sneezes in one room can travel to another. Faster for the doctors and nurses, but not as good for the patients. This hospital was privatized about five years ago.


BOINC WIKI
ID: 724428 · Report as offensive
Brian Silvers

Send message
Joined: 11 Jun 99
Posts: 1681
Credit: 492,052
RAC: 0
United States
Message 724500 - Posted: 11 Mar 2008, 5:02:19 UTC - in response to Message 724428.  

This hospital was privatized about five years ago.


Poor decisions in private companies are likely, but poor decisions in governments are guaranteed...
ID: 724500 · Report as offensive
Profile BrainSmashR
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 7 Apr 02
Posts: 1772
Credit: 384,573
RAC: 0
United States
Message 724579 - Posted: 11 Mar 2008, 10:47:49 UTC - in response to Message 724428.  

Neocons are to blame? Actually naivety is the more likely culprit.


Clearly the facts speak for themselves...


Here’s a news article that was on the news last night that may be of interest to both of you regarding your beloved privatized health care system.

Las Vegas clinic accused of reusing syringes

If you Google the issue you will find the practice is wide spread and has been on going for years.

Syringe Reuse Transmits Infection

This is knowingly infecting patients with deadly diseases by Neo-cons for the sake of squeezing that last buck out of the system. Put in another way, it’s premeditated murder for profit. Ignorance is no excuse.


Some of us already know the government cuts corners...perhaps you should learn the difference between private institutions and publicly funded clinics.

The Southern Nevada Health District is: funded roughly one-third from federal grants, one-third from fees and one-third from local taxes.

http://www.southernnevadahealthdistrict.org/general_information.htm

And private business don't cut corners every chance they get? Oh Please. Locally, we had a restaurant that was closed with the lowest health score ever - a 13 out of 100. Anyone remember the Pinto fiasco where the car manufacturer saved a nickel on every car at the expense of lives? The calculation was it would cost less to have the survivors of a few dead people sue than to spend the extra nickel per car to make the cars safer. Back on topic, hospital acquired infections are preventable - but there is an upfront cost. My wife recently was visiting an ICU where they were letting people into the ICU rooms in street clothes - not a good idea because some of the people in ICU are imunocompromised, and adding extra viruses, bacteria, and fungi is just not a good idea. Doors were also open between the patient rooms - so coughs and sneezes in one room can travel to another. Faster for the doctors and nurses, but not as good for the patients. This hospital was privatized about five years ago.


No one made you buy a Pinto or forced you to eat at that restaurant...how many VA hospitals do you find per city?

The point being that in a free market consisting of private enterprises, competition exists and you have a CHOICE where to spend your money.


ID: 724579 · Report as offensive
Profile Atlantian Technologies_Mr Young

Send message
Joined: 6 Apr 02
Posts: 71
Credit: 109,721
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 724961 - Posted: 12 Mar 2008, 8:44:30 UTC - in response to Message 718596.  

We in the states generally poke fun at the UK'ers for having bad teeth. I wonder what things the UK'ers poke fun at us statesiders?


we 'UK'ers' generally find how fat your people are quite hilarious.

Seriously tho, "Millions denied access to dentistry in the UK" has to be the biggest load of rubbish i have ever heard.

i have never seen a more open and publicly availible system, it is perfectly possible to walk into a dentist, give a false name and tick a few forms saying your entitled to free care, then get the work done.

Its even easier going for dentistry legitimatly, but my point is any joe bloggs can just walk in and get service.

and if anyone thinks its wierd wanting to go in for medical care under a false name, your probably right, but i try to take real good care of leaving a paper trail.

ID: 724961 · Report as offensive
Iona
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 12 Jul 07
Posts: 790
Credit: 22,438,118
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 725632 - Posted: 13 Mar 2008, 18:50:39 UTC - in response to Message 724961.  

We in the states generally poke fun at the UK'ers for having bad teeth. I wonder what things the UK'ers poke fun at us statesiders?


we 'UK'ers' generally find how fat your people are quite hilarious.

Seriously tho, "Millions denied access to dentistry in the UK" has to be the biggest load of rubbish i have ever heard.

i have never seen a more open and publicly availible system, it is perfectly possible to walk into a dentist, give a false name and tick a few forms saying your entitled to free care, then get the work done.

Its even easier going for dentistry legitimatly, but my point is any joe bloggs can just walk in and get service.

and if anyone thinks its wierd wanting to go in for medical care under a false name, your probably right, but i try to take real good care of leaving a paper trail.



As long as you have a wallet or purse that is open, this much is true. Since any 'service' is mainly outside the NHS, the private dentists wouldn't even flinch if you used the name, Lord Lucan! The system as it now stands, is far from open and the only free service that has any form of guarantee, is the NHS Emergency Service. In Australia, there is a word.... bludger. This is usually used to describe someone who takes everything they can, without having put anything in. I suppose in the US, its a 'free-loader'.



Don't take life too seriously, as you'll never come out of it alive!
ID: 725632 · Report as offensive
Profile Rush
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 3131
Credit: 302,569
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 740658 - Posted: 17 Apr 2008, 22:26:48 UTC - in response to Message 719209.  

As a University Prof on Disability Retirement, my crippled wife has the best insurance there is in the US; yet she must wait for weeks to see a specialist.

Then she does not have the best insurance there is in the U.S. Should I wish to see one, I just pick up the phone. I do not need a referral. Subject only to a mutually agreeable appointment.

Many of her prescriptions are vetoed by the insurance company and a costly appeal must be made. This is rationing in the name of profit for individuals. What a morally dispicable practice.

Go to the U.K. Many of those prescriptions simply aren't available. At all. The NHS is rationing in the name of protecting the system against the individuals. The practice is the exact same as any insurance company does because neither an insurance company nor a NHS can afford to keep 100% of the people alive all of the time.

Ever wonder why there are private health care insurance companies advertising all over the U.K? Heathrow is often riddled with them. They exist to cover things that NHS won't. Why won't they? Because they ration their health care dollars.

>snip<

We (medical professionals and those connected with medical practice) had heated discussions about the positively immoral situation of operating an inherently money losing business (hospitals) for "profit". There are only two ways to make illness profitable; raise prices or reduce care. Now we have both.

No, that is not the only way to make illness profitable. One of the other ways is to drive costs down. In fact, that's why really really poor people can afford food, and mobile phones, and color TV, et cetera. Large corporations seek to slaughter each other to provide ever better products at ever cheaper prices.

The current system is totally insulated from the market forces of capitalism, with third party payers - the recipients of services do not even care to ask about the price! If they had to pay these prices, competiton [as opposed to the current price fixing by a de facto cartel] would have exerted downward price pressure and the obscene profits of hospitals, drug companies, equipment manufacturers, etc. would not be possible.

And of course, WHY is the system insulated from market forces? Courtesy of the gov't, of course. Courtesy of massive gov't taxation and regulation.

The "free market" hypocrites argue to protect a rigged system that methodically extorts money from everyone with Government sanction (essentially a private, uncontrolled, un-democratic tax), purportedly under the banner of "choice" and "a free market". What total hogwash!

No one in their right mind listens to hypocrites of any stripe. Actual free market supporters look at the cornucopia of consumer goods and realize that medical goods could be one of the cheapest consumer goods available. For the most part, they're bulk items.

Only a single-payer, Government controlled, non-profit system can deliver the best care to all for the least cost.

Why, because you sez so? The gov't couldn't even provide municipal wireless or an efficient DMV and you want those idiot deciding who lives and who dies? Smart plan.

After nearly 20 years of care rationing by private accountants and "consultants", the specter of "Government rationing" and "lengthy delays" will no longer work. The fear campaign of the early 90's would only be describing what we have now!

And yet, even so, big retailers are giving 30 day supplies of medicine for nearly nothing now. Why? Because it's CHEAP. It could be even cheaper.

The longer we put off a single-payer, National Healthcare System the longer we will be making our businesses uncompetitive and hobble enterpreneurs and employers from being able to compete fairly with other advanced Western Nations.

And yet, the U.S. has almost no trouble whatsoever competing with any western nations--mostly because their costs are significantly less.
Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...
ID: 740658 · Report as offensive
Profile Rush
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 3131
Credit: 302,569
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 740665 - Posted: 17 Apr 2008, 22:39:11 UTC - in response to Message 719680.  

A couple of facts.

An emergency cannot deny care to anyone who walks in whether they can pay or not. The payment for those that cannot pay comes out of our tax dollars.

Emergency room medicine is far more expensive than anything that a clinic does.

What I am arguing for is access to normal medicine for everyone. Certainly, if your private insurance is better, use that. Just have basic healthcare for all that is not provided by the emergency room. This actually could reduce overall costs. It would should remove a major burden and cost from the emergency rooms and spend some of that savings on better basic health care. I am not necessarily advocating for the government to take over all healthcare, but it may need to be the payer of last resort (it already is through unpaid emergency room services).

Pay for it. Get everyone who thinks as you do and pay for it. Go ahead. No one is stopping you.

Why is US healthcare the most expensive in the world per capita, and not even in the top dozen countries in quality of healthcare?

Even if that were true, the answer is because of massive gov't intervention, regulation, and taxation.

An aside. I have had health insurance that was provided by an employer that was truly terrible. We had to fight for just about every penny. The mantra in the health insurance industry is "We are not denying care, just payment." Unfortunately, denying payment is, in many circumstances, denying care.

And yet you know why that system is the way it is: the gov't taxing the crap out of payroll. So your solution is to get the gov't involved even more?

Smart plan.
Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...
ID: 740665 · Report as offensive
Previous · 1 · 2

Message boards : Politics : Millions denied access to dentistry in the UK


 
©2022 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.