I don't understand how this ever got off the original subject. My topic came from an e:mail that is all over the internet. It was an honor that my website was copied and placed for all to see. Now lets stick with the topic and no more trying to hurt or demean one another. Peace

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my website... Our Famlies Guitar strap company

Now lets stick with the topic

I'm sure this will ruffle a few feathers, but I'd like to point out that the mathematical miracles of the Qur'an only work with the original Arabic text... In fact, all other translations of the Qur'an are deemed non-authoritative scripture... The Jewish Tanakh is similar to the Qur'an in that there exists an original Hebrew-English version... I'd be curious to know if there are any mathematical discoveries in there as well... Unfortunately for the Christians and the Mormons, as far as I know, the original Gospels are lost forever... But that doesn't necessarily mean that the 'center of the Bible' was a mere coincidence... Especially if you believe that all scripture was inspired by God and not the works of man... God has His ways... ;)

(I'm only assuming that this 'Bible mystery' is accurate. Surely I have no need to start counting verses to strengthen my faith.)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

[quote]I do not really believe in this "God" you speak of, but to be honest if it did exist, i would rather it didnt.

this whole religeon is full of hypocracy and it makes me feel doubly ill that i once tried very hard to be a part of it in the hope that there was more to this life.

by the very nature of this religion we are FORCED to have free will. that makes no sence at all. i do not want to part of some sick experiment by god to see how many of us commit henious crimes against each other and how many remain 'pure' enough to reach the pearly gates.

<snip!>

I am very confident that this whole religion was made up by some unga bunga shaman thousands of years ago and people are more than hapy to go along with it.

<snip!> [quote]


In fact, the folks that turned the oral traditions of the Iron Age nomadic Egyptian sub-tribe now termed "the Jews" (aka, "God's Chosen People", etc.) into "scripture" would best be described as clerks (clerics) or bureaucrats. It was mainly three of these guys who gathered the materials and organized it, writing it down in their newly minted written lahguage now called "Hebrew". This was done mainly for two reasons: to formalize and codify the social status and employment of the "priest" class, claiming this occupation to have the same value and merit as actual work, and to place this "priest" class in a position of rulership in their tribes. This grant of absolute authority was, of course, bestowed by Almighty God Himself, and if you refused to take the "priests" at their word (since only they had direct access to The Almighty) and pay and obey then.....

Theology has been a lifelong interest of mine. It's study, not it's practice!

I find the interesting fact that started this thread, that Psalms 118:8 is the "middle verse of the Bible" to be a fascinating point of trivia. Since the "King James Version" is itself a translation, based on Hebrew, Latin, Greek [and a handful of other] translations, scripted and edited to reinforce/validate the religious views and doctrines of the times in an Occidental (rather than Oriental, read:native Semitic) context, the odds of having the nexus of seeming connections and [co]incidences are truly astronomical! (No pun intended!)

What can this mean????

One wonders what the center verse of the Hebrew Talmud, etc would be. Or the Egyptian Coptic or Roman Vulgate; what is there central verse and are there similar interesting correlative oddities associated with these older versions of "scripture"? Or, moving forward in time, do the Revised Standard, Schofield, New American Standard, and other "modern" renderings of "the good book" contain this, or other similar, statistically interesting characteristics?

If so, what does that mean????

Being a Metrologist, I pull out the trusty Razor of Occam and can see great potential for and evidence of the direct intervention of the Hand of Man. No one can say for sure if "God" was involved with the original authorship of these books, but we can say for sure that men, not "God" definitely produced the book you cite. In fact, we know the names, and in most cases, the biographical information, of the men that generated the "King James Version".

I never cease to be amazed and amused by those who point to this, or that, version of "The Bible" as "God's literal Word" as if legendary heros like Abraham, Moses, Paul, etc. lived in Anytown, USA and spoke perfect English!

Which leads to the last, and best (IMHO) question: Is the group of interesting facts surrounding Psalms 118:8 the diliberate, willful act of a sentient mind?

Considering the extreme odds against this being an accident or coincidence, I would have to suggest the answer is "Yes".

Even so, WHAT DOES THIS MEAN???

I believe I have stumbled across the answer in typing the question......

Thanks for the new factoid! It's these unfathomable nuiances that keep life interesting!

fudoki

I never cease to be amazed and amused by those who point to this, or that, version of "The Bible" as "God's literal Word" as if legendary heros like Abraham, Moses, Paul, etc. lived in Anytown, USA and spoke perfect English!

After translation, they all become an 'interpretation of the meanings'...

Which is why the bickering over 'semantics' has never ceased to amaze and amuse me... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

I never cease to be amazed and amused by those who point to this, or that, version of "The Bible" as "God's literal Word" as if legendary heros like Abraham, Moses, Paul, etc. lived in Anytown, USA and spoke perfect English!

After translation, they all become an 'interpretation of the meanings'...

Which is why the bickering over 'semantics' has never ceased to amaze and amuse me... ;)

So what language does God speak? Is it any of the ones used by humans at any time in their history? If not then aren't they all translations? If one, why would s/he deliberately exclude a huge section of potential believers by choosing one language over any other? If s/he speaks all languages, which books (if any) are translations?

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

So what language does God speak?

I dunno what language God speaks, but the angel Gabriel spoke in the language of his intended audience... Nobody was excluded, God sent a messenger to all nations and to all people knowing full well that one day those messages would come together as proof of his existence... Some may choose to believe and some may choose not to believe, but in this day and age, there is nobody that can honestly say that they have never heard of God... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

So what language does God speak?

If you've read the New Testament, you'd know about the Pentecost Miracle, and how the Apostles spoke to their foreign audience in their respective first languages.
I believe that God speaks to each believer in their own language as He understands prayers of His believers spoken in their own language, and that for Him there is no such thing like language barriers.

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I find believers who feel the need to tell everyone they are believers more than slightly annoying.

If the believers didn't identify themselves, the nonbelievers wouldn't have anything to talk about...

I learned that here... ;)

It's interesting that the believers are allowed to preach here, but statements of non-believers are not allowed.

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I find believers who feel the need to tell everyone they are believers more than slightly annoying.

If the believers didn't identify themselves, the nonbelievers wouldn't have anything to talk about...

I learned that here... ;)

It's interesting that the believers are allowed to preach here, but statements of non-believers are not allowed.

I never saw that non-believers couldn't post in a thread about religious topics. Quite the opposite. I have often discussed with non-believers.
It's not the opinion/belief/teaching/ideology you are representing in your statement, it's the way how it's represented. The tone makes the music.
At least, mostly.

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Thanks for posting this, Michael T. Allison Retired USN.

Very interesting.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

No one can say for sure if "God" was involved with the original authorship of these books, but we can say for sure that men, not "God" definitely produced the book you cite. In fact, we know the names, and in most cases, the biographical information, of the men that generated the "King James Version".

Oh boy, you would have copped a hiding at the Catholic school I went to as a child saying something like that. I know you would, as I remember saying exactly the same thing quite a few times during Religion classes... Have you even been hit in the head from behind with a hard-cover King James Bible? I can tell you from first hand experience it hurts, and does NOT make you more religious :)

Am I religious? No.

Do I attend Church? Yes, if you include weddings & funerals. No, if you don't

Are my children religious? My wife and I agreed to do the "Catholic" thing as she had been brought up, and when they are older they can make their own mind up, not have it made up based on a massively revised old book.

Do I think religion is wrong? No - everyone is entitled to their own beliefs - I wont say you believeing in any particular God is wrong, because it is your choice to believe. Just dont force any beliefs down my throat & We'll get along really well :)

a massively revised old book.

Odd that with all those 'massive revisions', every Bible I've ever read says the exact same thing... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

a massively revised old book.

Odd that with all those 'massive revisions', every Bible I've ever read says the exact same thing... ;)

They are never exactly the same - wording changes. But unless the original manuscripts were in English, then they had to be translated - that can change the wording depending on the translator. If it's supposed to be the "word of God" then we should all have learnt them in their original language... oh wait thats right it was written by Man, not God... Sorry, but when you find the bit written by God and also Jesus, in their own handwriting too, I'd love to read those bits

Sorry, but religion based on a book is a little hard for me to understand... A lot like Scientology, come to think of it.

Historically some people would have been frightened by the idea of Hell, and spending eternal damnation there - Frighten the non-believers into following the religion makes good "business" sence in that it makes the church stronger, larger and more powerful, helping convert others and spreading out.

I'm not saying that the teachings and ideas in the bible are all garbage - the ideas behind it are fine by me, I just dont believe in the God, Adam & Eve etc bit, and definately think we are not alone, and the only world on which life has evolved.

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They are never exactly the same - wording changes.

Semantics...

Sorry, but religion based on a book is a little hard for me to understand...

Likewise, religion not based on Gods books is a little hard for me to understand... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

It's a good idea to read everything you can on your subject of interest:

more...

;)

How are you, Jeffrey?

:)

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

It's a good idea to read everything you can on your subject of interest

Wow! That's a mighty large collection of books you've accumulated mrgray... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Far more to find and learn,

Thanks Jeffrey and Happy Easter to all my Christian, Pagan, and Other, friends who celebrate Easter!

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Far more to find and learn,

Thanks Jeffrey and Happy Easter to all my Christian, Pagan, and Other, friends who celebrate Easter!

Same by me :)

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Good to see you thorin!

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Thanks Jeffrey and Happy Easter to all my Christian, Pagan, and Other, friends who celebrate Easter!

Ditto Dat... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .