I do not really believe in this "God" you speak of, but to be honest if it did exist, i would rather it didnt.

this whole religeon is full of hypocracy and it makes me feel doubly ill that i once tried very hard to be a part of it in the hope that there was more to this life.

by the very nature of this religion we are FORCED to have free will. that makes no sence at all. i do not want to part of some sick experiment by god to see how many of us commit henious crimes against each other and how many remain 'pure' enough to reach the pearly gates.

I would rather live life like I believe in God and find out that there is not, than to live life like I didn't believe in God and find out that there is.......

this is the kind of junk that is ruining the planet, apart from all the sicko's that hide behind the banner or god there are some real decent people that may actually make a difference in this world if they thought no one else was gonna do it.

I am very confident that this whole religion was made up by some unga bunga shaman thousands of years ago and people are more than hapy to go along with it.

over the course of history we have seen countless cases of sex offenders and the like being caught out, but the possibility that some ppl are willing to lie thruout history to shape this religion seems sacriligious in its self.

i have also heard that its better to believe in god than nothing at all. to that i say..COWARD

My point of view on spirituality...

there is no god. we are born we live and we die end of story....or is it?
BECAUSE of my belief, i feel personaly responsible to do my part to 'save the world' and this is because i have no magic figure to hide behind and say' its ok that you starve or you get muilated by sicko's because 'God' will make it all better, and i can sleep well at night convincing myself this is true '

you christian types should put your soul where your mouth is and get out there and help the world. stop preaching this almighty being is gonna save us. take a look out the damn window ppl, our planet is crumbling and the only ones who can ensure a future for our childrens families is to get out there and fix it...

and if i die and it turns out there IS a 'God' well then im sure it can understand where im coming from, not trusting works written by men claiming its gods book. and doing what my inner self tells me whats needed to be done.
and if it doesnt understand than i would rather have nothing to do with it. all powerfull or not.

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I love you no matter what you believe. You are still considered my brother and I can still pray for you and everyone. As we are all entitled to our beliefs. Fair and square.

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my website... Our Famlies Guitar strap company

I am very confident that this whole religion was made up by some unga bunga shaman

Considering the times, that must've been one smart unga bunga shaman... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

I am very confident that this whole religion was made up by some unga bunga shaman

Considering the times, that must've been one smart unga bunga shaman... ;)

The late Uruk period (34th to 32nd centuries) saw the gradual emergence of the cuneiform script and corresponds to the Early Bronze Age.

This is the beggining as we know it of the written language, long before "God" was invented, but not far from around the time monotheism in general was considered 'the in thing'.

even the 10 commandments are a farce, not only are they recycled frm several religions before the concept of modern God was around, notice how nice and tidy it is that the ones created by god were conveniently destroyed and moses had to re write them as punishment. oh and the all knowing god apparently didnt say it right in the first lot so the 2nd lot was more descriptive, including details on property ownership e.t.c.

i am not fully ruling out the existence of a creator, but the notions and rules that we believe in as our god (islam, christinsanity) is a load of rubbish and i wish we could just get over it..

I love you no matter what you believe. You are still considered my brother and I can still pray for you and everyone. As we are all entitled to our beliefs. Fair and square.

fine, love me because i am a fellow human being, and love that together as one people we can make the world a magical place. but dont love me because god tells you to.

pray to your hollow god all you like for me Mykal, and i will 'pray' that our human scientists can discover whatever is needed to make you well again and remove your need to be bed ridden. cos god aint gonna do it no matter how much faith you have.

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Every time I saw this thread, I was like, ok, at the center of the Bible is a fold... I don't have time to read all of this thread now, but I would probably throw in that "center" depends on the translation...as I'm thinking that the New International translation will have a different centerpoint than the King James...

I am very confident that this whole religion was made up by some unga bunga shaman

Considering the times, that must've been one smart unga bunga shaman... ;)

The late Uruk period (34th to 32nd centuries) saw the gradual emergence of the cuneiform script and corresponds to the Early Bronze Age.

This is the beggining as we know it of the written language, long before "God" was invented, but not far from around the time monotheism in general was considered 'the in thing'.

even the 10 commandments are a farce, not only are they recycled frm several religions before the concept of modern God was around, notice how nice and tidy it is that the ones created by god were conveniently destroyed and moses had to re write them as punishment. oh and the all knowing god apparently didnt say it right in the first lot so the 2nd lot was more descriptive, including details on property ownership e.t.c.

i am not fully ruling out the existence of a creator, but the notions and rules that we believe in as our god (islam, christinsanity) is a load of rubbish and i wish we could just get over it..

I love you no matter what you believe. You are still considered my brother and I can still pray for you and everyone. As we are all entitled to our beliefs. Fair and square.

fine, love me because i am a fellow human being, and love that together as one people we can make the world a magical place. but dont love me because god tells you to.

pray to your hollow god all you like for me Mykal, and i will 'pray' that our human scientists can discover whatever is needed to make you well again and remove your need to be bed ridden. cos god aint gonna do it no matter how much faith you have.

I am proud to be paralyzed rather than able to walk because I would be dead by now due to my lack of faith at the time of my accident and I was a mean troubled hell raiser that could care less about anyone. I believe for a fact that God saved me and gave me a new perspective on life and after dying 4 times and seeing what I have believe me there is a God wether you believe it or not. My testimony sums it up. I'll be out of bed on Monday the 28th. Bless You for your comments.

---

my website... Our Famlies Guitar strap company

God saved me and gave me a new perspective on life

Sometimes I wish that I could give that part back... ;)

(Remember the movie: The Green Mile?)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

our god (islam, christinsanity) is a load of rubbish and i wish we could just get over it..

Ever hear the phrase: 'One mans junk is another mans treasure'... ;)

---

It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

ok i have read your website and you are not giving consistant truths about who you are.

is this image of a thug you?

I am proud to be paralyzed rather than able to walk because I would be dead by now due to my lack of faith at the time of my accident and I was a mean troubled hell raiser that could care less about anyone. I believe for a fact that God saved me and gave me a new perspective on life and after dying 4 times and seeing what I have believe me there is a God wether you believe it or not. My testimony sums it up. I'll be out of bed on Monday the 28th. Bless You for your comments.

or is this image of a 'perfect american son' you?

Upon my senior graduation, I joined the United States Navy in December of 1974 and was placed on inactive duty for six months. I arrived at the Great Lakes Naval Recruit Training Center on June 26, 1975 -- the day before my 19th birthday. As you can guess, there was no party; just a new haircut. At first I thought Boot Camp was a living nightmare. It wasn't at all like the Summer Camps that I looked forward to when I was in Boy Scouts. After my first month of training it got much better. I was there for twelve weeks and graduated from Basic Training on September 12, 1975. It was well worth the effort in the end because I was then given my first leave which was two weeks long.

So, I hopped a flight out of Chicago's O'Hare International Airport and went home to Indianapolis. When I arrived at the airport in Indianapolis and made my way through the terminal, I saw my mother walking in my direction. She didn't notice me at first, but once she realized that I was her son, she gave me a hug and a kiss, but she didn't have to say a word for me to know how proud she was of me. There I was -- standing in my dress blues and looking as handsome as ever! I was no longer the little boy she had known, but the man she knew I would become. We went home and I spent the next three days visiting with her and my best friend. I was certainly glad to get a good home-cooked dinner, too!

By that time, my parents had long been divorced, my father had remarried, and my brother was living with him. So, on September 15th, my mother gave me her car which enabled me to go visit my dad, stepmother,brother, stepbrothers, and stepsisters. They lived in Fairborn, Ohio, which is just a few minutes from Dayton, Ohio. My stepmother is Lois Ann Willis and she has two sons and two daughters of her own. They were all glad to see me and I was glad to see them, too. I had planned to stay only overnight, but since I had eleven more days of leave, I decided to stay one more night.

Little did I realize that my lifestyle was about to change forever because I stayed that second night. My father asked me if I would go pick up my brother from work.

I had nothing else to do, so I said, "Sure, as I got my keys to the car.

It was the night of Sept. 17th. I arrived at my brother's workplace at 11:00 p.m. and handed him the keys. I said, "You drive and I'll tell you all about my Basic Training."

We were on a dark, damp, paved road in the country -- away from a lot of the traffic. It was a two-lane road with farmland on both sides. As we rounded a curve, the rear of our car started to slide on the damp pavement. I fell against my door and it opened. I grabbed hold of the door's arm rest and held on with all of my might, but that wasn't enough! The G Force was pulling me out! My brother tried to regain control of the car with his left hand. At the same time, he leaned over and tried to pull me back into the car with his right hand. It was no use! The car began to spin. I looked under the car, but within seconds I knew that if I didn't let go, I would be smashed in half by the car door and a barbed-wire fence, being killed instantly. Immediately, I let go and ended up -- face down -- in a muddy ditch with the car straddling the ditch directly above me. My brother was okay.

He got out of the car and I heard him yell, "Mike, where are you?"

Answering him, I cried out, "I'm under the car and I can't move!"

He thought I was kidding around at first, but when he realized that I was telling the truth, he pulled me out and sat me back in the passenger's seat. Then, he got into the driver's seat and tried to get us back on the road, but the car was stuck in the ditch. There were no cars or homes in sight! We waited for about a half hour before we finally saw a car heading in our direction. My brother repeatedly flashed the headlights off, on, off, on, off, on. He then pressed on the horn to get the driver's attention! When the car stopped, a man and woman got out of it and approached us. Because the woman was a nurse, she knew that I had broken my neck and was near death.

I am not trying to make anyone feel bad, and as you are a stranger i have no idea how much of what you say is true, but true muslims, christians and nontheists such as myself dont like to be given a mind job.

it may just be a perspective thing and both may be you but they give totaly different images of you. i imagine every single one of us have has our catastrophies in life, and not that i am saying you are, but many people in this world will use their troubles as a weapon to swing their views.

myself for example, i come from a home where the children had reagular beatings that shed blood. a prime example is from when i was around 13, i chose not to goto school one day and went into town to steal sweets with my friends, then we went onto the local hills to play for the rest of the day. i got home around 9pm that night and my mother was understandably furious. but it didnt give her the right to batter me into submission till i was bleeding badly, then she sent me up to get a bath and bed...when she discovered i had bled all up the stairs she broke into the bathroom while i was on the loo and tried to stab me!...as you can imagine a life like that led me into a residential school and temporary foster care. i used to carve myself up to ease the mental pain i was suffering. cut a long story short i have no family i can call my own now (except the one i have created for myself), as i grew up i had other issues with drugs and violence. my right arm has been shattered with a baseball bat and will never work the same again, and i even have such a chronic case of IBS that im in agony if my little daughter puts her weight on my stomach..
Never have i written this sob story before and i will never again, its just to point out that we all have our problems and they have nothing whatsoever to do with life everafter or worshiping some mythical being...only we can change this planet by DOING things, not by having faith in things that may not exist at all.

I really am sorry for the life you have suffered, and i wish you better luck in the future, but i shall not be swayed by personal tragedy, or the halucinations of a heavily medicated and asphyxiating human being.

Driving too fast round a bend with a broked door latch caused your woe's not some divine act to change your life.

the only thing that changed my life was to move on from the cycle and plan a better life of my own, i say no prayers, i tithe no money, i follow no commandments but those my own heart tells me i must. and now i live fairly well, in a bought and payed for house with a woman to love and two very lovely and 'good' children. i recycle as much as i can, im connected to only renewable energy, and i dedicate as much of my spare time as i can to the betterment of my family and the world around me...god has nothing to do with it.

i wish you peace, prosperity and the scientific breakthrough of cellular regeneration..

---

our god (islam, christinsanity) is a load of rubbish and i wish we could just get over it..

Ever hear the phrase: 'One mans junk is another mans treasure'... ;)

Jeffrey, i would sincerely like to hear your points of view, but do you think you could manage maybe more than one line at a time? its starting to get a little tiresome.

---

ok i have read your website and you are not giving consistant truths about who you are.

is this image of a thug you?

I am proud to be paralyzed rather than able to walk because I would be dead by now due to my lack of faith at the time of my accident and I was a mean troubled hell raiser that could care less about anyone. I believe for a fact that God saved me and gave me a new perspective on life and after dying 4 times and seeing what I have believe me there is a God whether you believe it or not. My testimony sums it up. I'll be out of bed on Monday the 28th. Bless You for your comments.

or is this image of a 'perfect american son' you?

Upon my senior graduation, I joined the United States Navy in December of 1974 and was placed on inactive duty for six months. I arrived at the Great Lakes Naval Recruit Training Center on June 26, 1975 -- the day before my 19th birthday. As you can guess, there was no party; just a new haircut. At first I thought Boot Camp was a living nightmare. It wasn't at all like the Summer Camps that I looked forward to when I was in Boy Scouts. After my first month of training it got much better. I was there for twelve weeks and graduated from Basic Training on September 12, 1975. It was well worth the effort in the end because I was then given my first leave which was two weeks long.

So, I hopped a flight out of Chicago's O'Hare International Airport and went home to Indianapolis. When I arrived at the airport in Indianapolis and made my way through the terminal, I saw my mother walking in my direction. She didn't notice me at first, but once she realized that I was her son, she gave me a hug and a kiss, but she didn't have to say a word for me to know how proud she was of me. There I was -- standing in my dress blues and looking as handsome as ever! I was no longer the little boy she had known, but the man she knew I would become. We went home and I spent the next three days visiting with her and my best friend. I was certainly glad to get a good home-cooked dinner, too!

By that time, my parents had long been divorced, my father had remarried, and my brother was living with him. So, on September 15th, my mother gave me her car which enabled me to go visit my dad, stepmother,brother, stepbrothers, and stepsisters. They lived in Fairborn, Ohio, which is just a few minutes from Dayton, Ohio. My stepmother is Lois Ann Willis and she has two sons and two daughters of her own. They were all glad to see me and I was glad to see them, too. I had planned to stay only overnight, but since I had eleven more days of leave, I decided to stay one more night.

Little did I realize that my lifestyle was about to change forever because I stayed that second night. My father asked me if I would go pick up my brother from work.

I had nothing else to do, so I said, "Sure, as I got my keys to the car.

It was the night of Sept. 17th. I arrived at my brother's workplace at 11:00 p.m. and handed him the keys. I said, "You drive and I'll tell you all about my Basic Training."

We were on a dark, damp, paved road in the country -- away from a lot of the traffic. It was a two-lane road with farmland on both sides. As we rounded a curve, the rear of our car started to slide on the damp pavement. I fell against my door and it opened. I grabbed hold of the door's arm rest and held on with all of my might, but that wasn't enough! The G Force was pulling me out! My brother tried to regain control of the car with his left hand. At the same time, he leaned over and tried to pull me back into the car with his right hand. It was no use! The car began to spin. I looked under the car, but within seconds I knew that if I didn't let go, I would be smashed in half by the car door and a barbed-wire fence, being killed instantly. Immediately, I let go and ended up -- face down -- in a muddy ditch with the car straddling the ditch directly above me. My brother was okay.

He got out of the car and I heard him yell, "Mike, where are you?"

Answering him, I cried out, "I'm under the car and I can't move!"

He thought I was kidding around at first, but when he realized that I was telling the truth, he pulled me out and sat me back in the passenger's seat. Then, he got into the driver's seat and tried to get us back on the road, but the car was stuck in the ditch. There were no cars or homes in sight! We waited for about a half hour before we finally saw a car heading in our direction. My brother repeatedly flashed the headlights off, on, off, on, off, on. He then pressed on the horn to get the driver's attention! When the car stopped, a man and woman got out of it and approached us. Because the woman was a nurse, she knew that I had broken my neck and was near death.

I am not trying to make anyone feel bad, and as you are a stranger i have no idea how much of what you say is true, but true muslims, christians and nontheists such as myself dont like to be given a mind job.

it may just be a perspective thing and both may be you but they give totaly different images of you. i imagine every single one of us have has our catastrophies in life, and not that i am saying you are, but many people in this world will use their troubles as a weapon to swing their views.

myself for example, i come from a home where the children had reagular beatings that shed blood. a prime example is from when i was around 13, i chose not to goto school one day and went into town to steal sweets with my friends, then we went onto the local hills to play for the rest of the day. i got home around 9pm that night and my mother was understandably furious. but it didnt give her the right to batter me into submission till i was bleeding badly, then she sent me up to get a bath and bed...when she discovered i had bled all up the stairs she broke into the bathroom while i was on the loo and tried to stab me!...as you can imagine a life like that led me into a residential school and temporary foster care. i used to carve myself up to ease the mental pain i was suffering. cut a long story short i have no family i can call my own now (except the one i have created for myself), as i grew up i had other issues with drugs and violence. my right arm has been shattered with a baseball bat and will never work the same again, and i even have such a chronic case of IBS that im in agony if my little daughter puts her weight on my stomach..
Never have i written this sob story before and i will never again, its just to point out that we all have our problems and they have nothing whatsoever to do with life everafter or worshiping some mythical being...only we can change this planet by DOING things, not by having faith in things that may not exist at all.

I really am sorry for the life you have suffered, and i wish you better luck in the future, but i shall not be swayed by personal tragedy, or the hallucinations of a heavily medicated and asphyxiating human being.

Driving too fast round a bend with a broked door latch caused your woe's not some divine act to change your life.

the only thing that changed my life was to move on from the cycle and plan a better life of my own, i say no prayers, i tithe no money, i follow no commandments but those my own heart tells me i must. and now i live fairly well, in a bought and payed for house with a woman to love and two very lovely and 'good' children. i recycle as much as i can, im connected to only renewable energy, and i dedicate as much of my spare time as i can to the betterment of my family and the world around me...god has nothing to do with it.

i wish you peace, prosperity and the scientific breakthrough of cellular regeneration..

It sure IS... Do you see me saying anything about my life and what was going on with it between the age's of 14 thru 19? NO. WHY? Because I wanted to forget about IT and its not for you to say. BTW, learn how to spell and to get the facts straight before running off at the mouth. Where in gods name did it say we were going too fast and the door handle was broken not broke.Like I said get your facts straight. Also you don't hallucinate when you are dead. Go play in the street and find out. I've had enough of your nonsense.

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my website... Our Famlies Guitar strap company

NO. WHY? Because I wanted to forget about IT and its not for you to say.

When God calls on a believer, the believer puts the past behind them and begins looking to the future...
Unfortunately for the believers, the nonbelievers obsession with the past remains unchanged...

Am I wrong? I don't think so... And quite frankly, as a believer, I find it slightly annoying... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

ok then, calm down. who cares if i spelled a few words wrong, my fingers cant always keep up with what i want to say.

When God calls on a believer, the believer puts the past behind them and begins looking to the future...
Unfortunately for the believers, the nonbelievers obsession with the past remains unchanged...

Am I wrong? I don't think so... And quite frankly, as a believer, I find it slightly annoying... ;)

dont you think he is getting a little touchy about it if he is someone who has 'found inner peace thru jesus christ'? And also as to 'putting it all behind, he is trying to ram it down our throats as much as possible, especially for the sympathy vote...look he even changed his name recently to include

Retired Paralyzed Veteran

i do feel sympathy for you man, you have had a real rough life, but it has nothing to do with the existance or non-existance of a god!!!


as to 'nonbelievers obsession with the past remains unchanged'. there are many people far more clever than us lot who would debate that our future depends on learning from the past!

Michael - i was not intending to deliberatly offend you, but you did say

My testimony sums it up

so i was just clarifying a discrepency.

i am quite comfotable with my non belief in an afterlife. im not the one who has to 'turn the other cheek' when someone does something bad..

im not saying that everyone should beleive that 'heavy duty' bible bashers are to afraid to accept there is nothing beyond what we can make of this world, nor am i saying that everyone should consider them weak because they are willing to put all the big dirty jobs into gods hands so they can sleep better at night under the self delusion that the almighty has it all planned out, that its ok for rape and child abuse and murder to exist because god insists on his little experiment, because even if he/she/it did exist then satan is working for him essentaly...nope i do not condone that everyone should think like this, its just what i believe.


also i appologise if this post offends anyone, im not trying to be nasty. Lets be honest tho, the question of whether their is a god or not is without a doubt THE most important thing in life, simply making a thread on religion is inviting passion!

EDIT: btw jeffrey, /me waves as he passes you in world rankings ;)

EDIT 2: look this is getting us no where and its gettin more personal by the post...i didnt come here to discuss 'my life was tougher than your life'. already because i dont belive in god and i dont believe that personal tragedy should change your view on a truth (something either is true or isnt, like god). i look like a horrible insensitive bully. but it really isnt true. well ok i can be insensitive, but its not done to hurt, but to cut through the superficial.
i came here to discuss god, and his religion, not other human beings.

i would rather debate my erlier statement.

This is the beggining as we know it of the written language, long before "God" was invented, but not far from around the time monotheism in general was considered 'the in thing'.

even the 10 commandments are a farce, not only are they recycled frm several religions before the concept of modern God was around, notice how nice and tidy it is that the ones created by god were conveniently destroyed and moses had to re write them as punishment. oh and the all knowing god apparently didnt say it right in the first lot so the 2nd lot was more descriptive, including details on property ownership e.t.c.

i am not fully ruling out the existence of a creator, but the notions and rules that we believe in as our god (islam, christinsanity) is a load of rubbish and i wish we could just get over it..

Peace and happiness all!!!!

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And quite frankly, as a believer, I find it slightly annoying... ;)

I find believers who feel the need to tell everyone they are believers more than slightly annoying.

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And quite frankly, as a believer, I find it slightly annoying... ;)

I find believers who feel the need to tell everyone they are believers more than slightly annoying.

I happen to feel the same way on this subject.

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http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=32479&nowrap=true#430894.

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

dont you think he is getting a little touchy about it

I think a public forum is no place for personal issues...

EDIT: btw jeffrey, /me waves as he passes you in world rankings

Gloating is a sign of personal discontentment... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

I find believers who feel the need to tell everyone they are believers more than slightly annoying.

If the believers didn't identify themselves, the nonbelievers wouldn't have anything to talk about...

I learned that here... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

dont you think he is getting a little touchy about it

I think a public forum is no place for personal issues...

EDIT: btw jeffrey, /me waves as he passes you in world rankings

Gloating is a sign of personal discontentment... ;)

aww dont take it like that jeffrey, i remember from seti classic we haad a thread somewhere titled 'honk as you pass'. I just happened to notice that i was coming up to your position and thought i would wave as i pass, just like old skool. besides i have had many ups and downs over my seti years and im entitled to what little pride i have with regard to keeping my network pumping out credits and there is nothing like little 'good sport' competition to keep the numbers up.


Now, as to -

dont you think he is getting a little touchy about it

I think a public forum is no place for personal issues...

i wasnt the one that started using personal circumstances to ram religion down peoples throat, i just reacted. and its true i react badly to the whole self pious thing...if i was ver gonna be converted to the faith by someone it wouldnt be because of what happened to them in the past or what came out their mouth..it would be their actions in life that would impress me.

but we are still talking about the people posting in the thread, can we please be be grown up about this, unpleasant things have been said and we need to move back onto the topic of the gods.

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I think a public forum is no place for personal issues...

There are personal issues aired by many here on the forums.......

This is a user group......a community....a place where many souls spread wide and far can come together joined by their support of a common goal...the Seti project.

I have no shame confessing my belief in God here. But I do not spend much time preaching to those who do not, nor berate them for their beliefs or lack of same.
It is a personal thing.

Much of what is shared in the forums has to do with personal feelings, and sharing them here is part and parcel of being part of the group.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster