This article was printed in todays Sunday Times newspaper, over here in the UK.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3056423.ece

FOR decades it has been a staple of science fiction somewhere out in the galaxy, a highly developed alien race picks up a radio signal from Earth, and decides to eat us for lunch.

In a world plagued by war, hunger and disease, a possible attack by little green men may not rank high among most nations’ concerns. Yet for a small group of scientists who are harnessing increasingly powerful technologies in a trans-galactic search for signs of extraterrestrial intelligence, the prospect of catastrophe has stirred an angry debate.

Two senior scientists have resigned from an elite international study group in protest over a lack of public discussion about the possible consequences of attracting the attention of aliens by sending signals deep into space.

“We’re talking about initiating communication with other civilisations, but we know nothing of their goals, capabilities or intent,” warned John Billingham, a former Nasa scientist who has quit an extraterrestrial study group set up by the International Academy of Astronautics (IAA).

The scientists involved are all acutely aware of the dangers of ridicule in their discussions of ET and his more sinister cousins. Yet recent advances in radio telescope technologies, and a substantial flow of private funding into ET-related projects, has transformed the “search for extraterrestrial intelligence” (Seti).

In California last October, astronomers switched on the first elements of a giant new array of radio telescopes that will vastly extend the sweep of signals into outer space. Known as the Allen Telescope Array, it was built with the help of a $25m (£12.3m) donation from Paul Allen, the billionaire co-founder of Microsoft, and is a joint project of the Radio Astronomy Laboratory of the University of California at Berkeley, and the Seti Institute, America’s foremost centre of ET research.

“I like to call Seti the longest of long shots,” Allen said when the telescopes were commissioned. “But if this array picks up a signal, that would be an amazing thing a civilisation-changing event.”

Yet critics argue that listening for signals and actively seeking out alien life are very different pursuits. At the Russian Academy of Sciences in Moscow, Alexander Zaitsev, chief scientist at the Institute of Radio Engineering and Electronics, has been using a 70-metre-wide radio telescope in the Crimea to beam signals to nearby star systems a practice known as “active Seti”.

It is the steady shift from listening to transmitting that has divided the Seti community and raised awkward questions that no one has yet been able to answer. Who will speak for Earth if an alien civilisation replies? And are we really in danger of inviting Armageddon? Sir Bernard Lovell, the British founder of Jodrell Bank, once remarked that it was a “dangerous assumption” that any alien life would turn out to be friendly.

If an alien fleet mobilises against us, Allen should be one of the first to know. “If they do find something, they’re going to call me up and say we have a signal,” he said. “So far the phone hasn’t rung.”

Yet the question of whether we should go actively looking for ETs still needs to be debated, insists Michael Michaud, a former US State Department official who has also resigned from the IAA study group. Michaud is alarmed by his colleagues’ reluctance to halt transmissions pending consideration of the possible consequences.

This article was printed in todays Sunday Times newspaper, over here in the UK.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3056423.ece

With all the radio and television signals sent out from Earth over the past 100 years or so, I'd say trying to put a hold on "Active SETI" is a little bit late.

This article was printed in todays Sunday Times newspaper, over here in the UK.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3056423.ece

With all the radio and television signals sent out from Earth over the past 100 years or so, I'd say trying to put a hold on "Active SETI" is a little bit late.

Who knows, the aliens might even believe our commercials.
Tullio

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That makes two of us."

Bah, knowing we are here, and having the ability to travel the vast distances across the cosmos to dominate/eat us are two very different things. I'm not losing any sleep over it.

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Bah, knowing we are here, and having the ability to travel the vast distances across the cosmos to dominate/eat us are two very different things. I'm not losing any sleep over it.

I have to agree with you. It is very unlikely/impossible for an alien civilization to have the technology needed to travel through the vast emptiness of space.

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Bah, knowing we are here, and having the ability to travel the vast distances across the cosmos to dominate/eat us are two very different things. I'm not losing any sleep over it.

I have to agree with you. It is very unlikely/impossible for an alien civilization to have the technology needed to travel through the vast emptiness of space.

Sorry, I'd have to differ. The common assumption that ET will not be able to travel long distances over a long time is referred to as "Temporal chauvinism". It is often assumed ET has a lifespan roughly equivalent to ours... a perception of time similar to ours, and, for that matter, no method of suspended animation space-travel either. [All assumptions full of holes...Leading to the further assumption that ET would rather not make space flights taking longer than a few Earth years round trip, assuming of course he/it/they actually want to go home again anyway...]

We CAN allow ourselves the luxury to assume, for the time being anyway, that FTL travel is not possible based on the laws of physics as we understand them. That understanding may change too.

ET might possibly have a lifespan of thousands of years or more. May have started his journey here 1000 years ago, and consider this a weekend camping trip out to the galactic woods...

Jason

[Edit: Known earth species can live quite long ... "at 4,838 years old, the oldest known living organism currently alive." ...and that's still carbon based life...from List of Long-Living Organisms Wikipedia Article ]

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

Bah, knowing we are here, and having the ability to travel the vast distances across the cosmos to dominate/eat us are two very different things. I'm not losing any sleep over it.

I have to agree with you. It is very unlikely/impossible for an alien civilization to have the technology needed to travel through the vast emptiness of space.

Sorry, I'd have to differ. The common assumption that ET will not be able to travel long distances over a long time is referred to as "Temporal chauvinism". It is often assumed ET has a lifespan roughly equivalent to ours... a perception of time similar to ours, and, for that matter, no method of suspended animation space-travel either. [All assumptions full of holes...Leading to the further assumption that ET would rather not make space flights taking longer than a few Earth years round trip, assuming of course he/it/they actually want to go home again anyway...]

We CAN allow ourselves the luxury to assume, for the time being anyway, that FTL travel is not possible based on the laws of physics as we understand them. That understanding may change too.

ET might possibly have a lifespan of thousands of years or more. May have started his journey here 1000 years ago, and consider this a weekend camping trip out to the galactic woods...

Jason

[Edit: Known earth species can live quite long ... "at 4,838 years old, the oldest known living organism currently alive." ...and that's still carbon based life...from List of Long-Living Organisms Wikipedia Article ]

I guess I never took the time to consider the possibility that these organisms could have long life spans.

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Who is to say that they don't have the capability to travel long distances. If you don't think they have the capability that's because you using conventional wisdom based on our trials and errors of our successes and failures to escape earths gravity.

The hardest part for John Q. Public to understand is they may have over come all of those obstacles eons ago.

We have to think outside the box before we can begin to comprehend how superior they may be to us. To them a trip to earth from the furthest reaches of the galaxy or universe may be a walk in the park.

Bah, knowing we are here, and having the ability to travel the vast distances across the cosmos to dominate/eat us are two very different things. I'm not losing any sleep over it.

I have to agree with you. It is very unlikely/impossible for an alien civilization to have the technology needed to travel through the vast emptiness of space.

Sorry, I'd have to differ. The common assumption that ET will not be able to travel long distances over a long time is referred to as "Temporal chauvinism". It is often assumed ET has a lifespan roughly equivalent to ours... a perception of time similar to ours, and, for that matter, no method of suspended animation space-travel either. [All assumptions full of holes...Leading to the further assumption that ET would rather not make space flights taking longer than a few Earth years round trip, assuming of course he/it/they actually want to go home again anyway...]

We CAN allow ourselves the luxury to assume, for the time being anyway, that FTL travel is not possible based on the laws of physics as we understand them. That understanding may change too.

ET might possibly have a lifespan of thousands of years or more. May have started his journey here 1000 years ago, and consider this a weekend camping trip out to the galactic woods...

Jason

[Edit: Known earth species can live quite long ... "at 4,838 years old, the oldest known living organism currently alive." ...and that's still carbon based life...from List of Long-Living Organisms Wikipedia Article ]

I agree with you completely, but the point of the article was that we shouldn't be transmitting signals into space b/c something unfriendly might hear them. Our civilization will likely be long gone by the time anybody hears us and makes their way to our neck of the woods. If we ever do make physical contact with ET, it will more likely be because they stumbled across us by accident, not because they heard us and came to investigate.

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I agree with you completely, but the point of the article was that we shouldn't be transmitting signals into space b/c something unfriendly might hear them. Our civilization will likely be long gone by the time anybody hears us and makes their way to our neck of the woods. If we ever do make physical contact with ET, it will more likely be because they stumbled across us by accident, not because they heard us and came to investigate.

LOL Yes, I was responding to another's post when I should have addressed the article, I am Sorry. By extension of the argument, I would be indirectly agreeing with the article.

To explain my position by analogy... Say you and your family were taking a picnic / camping trip out into the woods .... A particularly annoying termite mound nearby is noisy and swarming with bitey living things. [short lived termites]

Do you?:

1 - Leave the area and find a less crowded camping spot?
2 - Apply liberal quantities of insect repellent and ignore the annoyance?
3 - Booze up and play smash the termite mound? or
4 - Attempt to make contact with the termites, offer them technology in exchange for culture?
[Edit: Of course there are other options, you may wish to study some of the termites, conduct genetic experiments on them and put them back .... But that just wouldn't be very nice would it?]

Notes: The termites have no comprehension of your mode of travel, may try to make contact with you or acquire your food...

To me #4 is utterly ridiculous, #1 #2 & #3 possibly equally likely...

IMO We may need a better strategy than randomly beaming signals into space and upsetting ET's picnics :D

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

An excellent analogy - definately puts things in a much different perspective than our own. I guess we can only hope the aliens that find us are the benevolent type, and not the bastard little 10yo who wants to put the M80 in the anthill to see what happens:).

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Haven't you considered the possibility that a civilization so advanced that could travel through space would have evolved beyond our human problems and would not seek war and world dominance. Bear with me that if an alien civilization travels through space mankind would not be the first civilization they encounter-they will have no desire to destroy us because they are more technologically and spiritually advanced. We might pose the treath to them, not the other way around-we fear ourselves and wage wars, we have brought ourselves at the brink of destruction quite a few times-they have survivied this stage and perhaps they wanna share their experience, not destroy every living thing in the galaxy...

Sure Hope So DexterV!, That would be good!

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

I personally don't think that we should worry to much about being destroyed by an alien civilization. even if the aliens where bent on war with man kind it is much more likely that mankind will destroy itself. We have not always been known to show a whole lot of intelligence. It is much more likely that we will have destroyed our selves in a nuclear war before we would have to worry about an alien attack.

Also there has already been so many tv and radio signals sent out into space that it is too late to try to stop an alien civilization from finding us.

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I rather find this discussion strange. Even given the unlikely case, that our ET-neighbours could travel nearly the speed of light (or somehow miracously even faster), this would mean, they are MUCH more developed than we are.
So if they really wanted our resources or whatever, they'd get them anyway.
Althought it's hard to imagine for me, that this might be economical, taking the energy into consideration, that would be required getting here, not speaking of the resources required to take tons of cargo with you.

And even if we wouldn't emit radio signals through Radar or TV, they could find us anyway. If I remember correctly, we ourselves are on the edge of using technology to find Exoplanets with Earth's size and the possibility to analyze their atmospheres (which will give us a rough idea about possible life).

What I don't understand is, that it's actually scientists talking seriously about it. Or maybe I just didn't get the convincing facts. Or maybe they're addicted to cocaine. Who knows.

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Best regards
Jens

I would consider being obliterated by aliens an "honorable death". Bring it on I say!

I would consider being obliterated by aliens an "honorable death". Bring it on I say!

lol. I think a good alien invasion would bring world peace. Plus we would know for sure they exsist. ;)

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I would consider being obliterated by aliens an "honorable death". Bring it on I say!

lol. I think a good alien invasion would bring world peace. Plus we would know for sure they exsist. ;)

I think I have to agree with you.

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Passive SETI is dangerous too, we might get a message that tricks us into building a doomsday machine that kills us all.

Or, we might get a message that saves us from the (typical?) mistake of setting off a doomsday machine that we so cleverly built all by ourselves.

[Fast web searches are so handy...]

This book sounds interesting: "Contact with Alien Civilizations: Our Hopes and Fears about Encountering Extraterrestrials" by Michael A.G. Michaud. Two years ago he wrote an editorial arguing that Active SETI Is Not Scientific Research but instead more of a policy issue.

As a newbie cruncher I've gotten interested in various SETI issues. See, viral memes are insidious!