Oh my, I accidently ommitted something from my last post. LOL

You reactionaries aren't arguing against my thoughts...but I did get the result I wanted.

Those words are from Abraham Lincoln.

Shall we enter a debate over what a lousy socialist bastard he was or are you going to open your eyes and realize that at different times in history, the drive to aquire money has not been the most important thing in life.

I can't believe the kneejerk reactions and yet, you call me stupid?

Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital.
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could not have existed if labor had not first existed.
Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.

All of your muscles can't produce 1% ONE PERCENT of what has been produced by men of the mind you ignoramous.

Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital.
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could not have existed if labor had not first existed.
Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.

This is so logical, no matter who spoke it first. The capital is produced by labor (since it's not the dollar bills that operate the machines but the workers).
If there is no labor, there will be no capital. Let the labor stop - in the entire country, for a couple days or a week (called a General Strike) - do you think those who own the capital will still get the same win? On the other side: workers even work if you just promise them to pay for their work. Labor - meaning the workers - just produce the capital which is then partly used for investing in more labor (or in paying for the work already done) which produces more capital etc (like a coil). Labor can exist without capital, but capital only exists by labor.

Hence it's the labor which is the superior, not the capital - that's also why I respect the working class much more than the CEOs and other rich parasites who do nothing but letting "their money" work for them.

they don't produce dime one of capital to give themselves jobs.

I'm sure they're losin' a lot of sleep at night worrying that you don't respect them.

Thank you, Fuzzy. That's so salty and sweet. I believe I'll sample some on my Union negotiated overly long and unnecessary work break. :-P

You're welcome, you really should try a couple of æbleskiver, they are really good.

Work breaks, what is that? The only break I have is lunch break which I pay myself, it's not a part of my work time. Are you so lucky to have work breaks?

Yes, we get work breaks in between each of our naptime breaks on these plush cots we have. I have the nicest duvet!

WOW what a wonderful employer you have! How lucky you are to work for such a caring boss. :-D

Me, it's all

I just need someone to share the duvet and I'm all set.

"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital.
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could not have existed if labor had not first existed.
Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.

This is so logical, no matter who spoke it first. The capital is produced by labor (since it's not the dollar bills that operate the machines but the workers).
If there is no labor, there will be no capital. Let the labor stop - in the entire country, for a couple days or a week (called a General Strike) - do you think those who own the capital will still get the same win? On the other side: workers even work if you just promise them to pay for their work. Labor - meaning the workers - just produce the capital which is then partly used for investing in more labor (or in paying for the work already done) which produces more capital etc (like a coil). Labor can exist without capital, but capital only exists by labor.
Hence it's the labor which is the superior, not the capital - that's also why I respect the working class much more than the CEOs and other rich parasites who do nothing but letting "their money" work for them.

Labour existed before the concept of money.

People laboured to build villages, farms, wells and everything else needed by the community.
Before money became the common unit of trade or exchange, it was a barter system consisting of payment with direct labour or goods produced by labour.

The capitalist builds nothing and produces nothing.

The capitalist merely invests in the abilities of others to build and produce.

The capitalist doesn't sweat in the factory, the capitalist simply collects his dividend.

The capitalist doesn't assemble Rush's precious cars, he simply moves jobs overseas to increase profits.

Labour builds and produces everything needed by society in exchange for some small scaps from the table of the Caligula capitalists and some people in here think those crumbs received by labour are too big.

Do those who say working people are overpaid actually think we believe that they are going to approach their masters and ask for a pay cut to show their true committment to that belief?

I didn't think so.

Right on Thorin

We can get by without capitalists but they can't get by without us.

If the whole system collapsed tomorrow, no electricity, no machines, no nothing. Working people would, after the initial shock, simply fall back on the old system of cooperation and barter in exchange for goods and services.

Under that system, there was no allowance for greed or sloth.

If you didn't produce, you died.

All the money in the world won't help if money was only useful as firestarter.

Right on Thorin

We can get by without capitalists but they can't get by without us.

That's funny, because the "capitalists" seem to get along just fine without you. I haven't seen Roger Smith begging the UAW for a job recently...

If the whole system collapsed tomorrow, no electricity, no machines, no nothing. Working people would, after the initial shock, simply fall back on the old system of cooperation and barter in exchange for goods and services.

Not I.

I, and everyone that thinks as I do would create money to make it easier to trade for what you needed. I don't want to make candles and slaughter animals and build LCD screens and CPUs and the power supplies to run them. I want to use money, that I earned from my labor, to pay others to do all that crap for me. And I will.

Under that system, there was no allowance for greed or sloth.

If you didn't produce, you died.

Seems that the UAW is happily dying right now, in fact, they're hastening the end. Must be their sloth, because they have all the labor they need, and that's all they need, right? Labor.

I wonder what they're waiting for?

All the money in the world won't help if money was only useful as firestarter.

Except that it won't be useful only as firestarter. It will be useful to buy the things you need that you cannot produce yourself. I, and everyone else who thinks like me will make sure of it.

We can get by without capitalists but they can't get by without us.

That's funny, because the "capitalists" seem to get along just fine without you.

Right on Thorin

We can get by without capitalists but they can't get by without us.

That's funny, because the "capitalists" seem to get along just fine without you. I haven't seen Roger Smith begging the UAW for a job recently...

If the whole system collapsed tomorrow, no electricity, no machines, no nothing. Working people would, after the initial shock, simply fall back on the old system of cooperation and barter in exchange for goods and services.

Not I.

I, and everyone that thinks as I do would create money to make it easier to trade for what you needed. I don't want to make candles and slaughter animals and build LCD screens and CPUs and the power supplies to run them. I want to use money, that I earned from my labor, to pay others to do all that crap for me. And I will.

Under that system, there was no allowance for greed or sloth.

If you didn't produce, you died.

Seems that the UAW is happily dying right now, in fact, they're hastening the end. Must be their sloth, because they have all the labor they need, and that's all they need, right? Labor.

I wonder what they're waiting for?

All the money in the world won't help if money was only useful as firestarter.

Except that it won't be useful only as firestarter. It will be useful to buy the things you need that you cannot produce yourself. I, and everyone else who thinks like me will make sure of it.