What do these terms means to you? Are they synonymous?
I will add my own bit later.
If cRunchy could add something here, I think this thread could have a very elegant beginning.

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

A hallmark of my best friendships has been that we can tell each other when we are wrong.

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

A hallmark of my best friendships has been that we can tell each other when we are wrong.

Way to go Sarge.

When our real friends (not acquaintances) tell us we are wrong, we sit up & notice.

The Thousandth Man
Rudyard Kipling

ONE man in a thousand, Solomon says,
Will stick more close than a brother.
And it’s worth while seeking him half your days
If you find him before the other.
Nine hundred and ninety-nine depend
On what the world sees in you,
But the Thousandth Man will stand your friend
With the whole round world agin you.

’Tis neither promise nor prayer nor show
Will settle the finding for ’ee.
Nine hundred and ninety-nine of ’em go
By your looks, or your acts, or your glory.
But if he finds you and you find him,
The rest of the world don’t matter;
For the Thousandth Man will sink or swim
With you in any water.

You can use his purse with no more talk
Than he uses yours for his spendings,
And laugh and meet in your daily walk
As though there had been no lendings.
Nine hundred and ninety-nine of ’em call
For silver and gold in their dealings;
But the Thousandth Man he’s worth ’em all;
Because you can show him your feelings.

His wrong’s your wrong, and his right’s your right,
In season or out of season.
Stand up and back it in all men’s sight—
With that for your only reason!
Nine hundred and ninety-nine can’t bide
The shame or mocking or laughter,
But the Thousandth Man will stand by your side
To the gallows-foot—and after!

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Pure mathematics is, in its way, the poetry of logical ideas.

Albert Einstein

What do these terms means to you? Are they synonymous?
I will add my own bit later.
If cRunchy could add something here, I think this thread could have a very elegant beginning.

I was just about to switch off my screen and go out to do a little shoping when I looked at this thread.

It's nice when I see someone wanting to talk to me or wants me to talk to them.

Friends are people that we feel comfortable talking with and if we have not gotten to know them well enough yet, or we are a little shy, then they are people we are just comfortable being around.

Friendship is not something you can learn from a book or that has specific rules. It is something that we either feel as soon as meet someone or it something that develops.

Loyalty is something different for me. On one level it is what we talk about only when we fear we will loose a thing or someone.

Loyalty is rarely an issue or even a topic of conversation when friendships are going well... The question of loyalty starts when friendships break down... and when everything is going well then 'loyalty' is simply known as 'friendship'.

Friends are there even when you make a complete clutz of yourself or you fall out... but friendship shouldn't be a burden and sometimes the most friendly thing we can do when things go wrong is to take some time away.


For me the best experience of friendship when it happens is seeing something special about you in someone else and not even noticing that you saw it.

It can be a gift and is a neccesity of life as much as having family, community, cared for or loved ones.

I believe friendship is a natural biological experience as much as it is a mental or thoughtful one.


Not sure these thoughts are very elloquently said or quite what was meant but I eat everything on the weekends and my cupboard is now bear and I will start eating the loo roll if I don't go to the shop soon.

I'll be back from shop later with chocolate all over my hands and face.... Yummy.

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Do friends share chocolate? :)

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

A hallmark of my best friendships has been that we can tell each other when we are wrong.

Way to go Sarge.

When our real friends (not acquaintances) tell us we are wrong, we sit up & notice.

Sometimes, though, it doesn't hurt to hear it twice; either from the same person or even better from more than one friend.

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

To ask someone to do something out of blind loyalty is probably the furthest thing from friendship I can think of.

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

Do friends share chocolate? :)

Hehehe.. The sharing of chocolate is a true test of any friendship.

Just got back from the shop and we're all going to be sick as dogs tonight: I got a bar of Green & Black's organic dark chocolate with cherries, one with real ginger, a bag of gummy bears another with foamy shrimps and bananas as well as a bag of jelly beans.

I did however forget the cheese so it's gummy bears and lettuce sandwiches for dinner.

Do friends share chocolate? :)

Hehehe.. The sharing of chocolate is a true test of any friendship.

Just got back from the shop and we're all going to be sick as dogs tonight: I got a bar of Green & Black's organic dark chocolate with cherries, one with real ginger, a bag of gummy bears another with foamy shrimps and bananas as well as a bag of jelly beans.

I did however forget the cheese so it's gummy bears and lettuce sandwiches for dinner.

Haha, my son the other day asked if he could have gummy bears for lunch. I caved. He had his gummy bears.

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Do friends share chocolate? :)

Hehehe.. The sharing of chocolate is a true test of any friendship.

Just got back from the shop and we're all going to be sick as dogs tonight: I got a bar of Green & Black's organic dark chocolate with cherries, one with real ginger, a bag of gummy bears another with foamy shrimps and bananas as well as a bag of jelly beans.

I did however forget the cheese so it's gummy bears and lettuce sandwiches for dinner.

Haha, my son the other day asked if he could have gummy bears for lunch. I caved. He had his gummy bears.

LOL! And 30 packets of ketchup?

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

To ask someone to do something out of blind loyalty is probably the furthest thing from friendship I can think of.

I think the concept of 'loyalty' is too often used to coerce other people into doing or being what we want.

Loyalty is something that just exists as part of any good relationship, friendship or contract. If we stand by people when things go wrong I suspect it is because we have some investment or trust that things will get better.

I think I prefer the words 'trust' and 'value' combined to idea of loyalty in friendships.



On my way home I was wondering how the common concepts of friendship works with regards to the many friends people make on line today?

Many never actually meet or speak (and these days don't always e.mail) with each other but it is clear that many people find great enjoyment in chatting with certain people, to found friends and in friendship groups on forums or usenet.

I suspect even the concepts of belonging and loyalty exist even though simple text (with added colour from images) does not seem like it could replace the experience and quality of actually meeting in the flesh, speech or shared common physical spaces and environments. Or can it?

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"cRunchy" wrote:

I suspect even the concepts of belonging and loyalty exist even though simple text (with added colour from images) does not seem like it could replace the experience and quality of actually meeting in the flesh, speech or shared common physical spaces and environments. Or can it?

Participating in these forums is a friendly thing to do. We all come here and post as friendly people. Some are exceptions and may well be positively unfriendly in what they post and persist in posting, but that's just a minority.

Loyalty, I think, is not general, but arises specifically with certain people and the reasons for it may not be clear, logical, or easy to explain. I think it's hard to break a loyalty tie with someone, or even with 30. Loyalty, once it's there, just is.

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flaming balloons

Nah, among The 30 we are able to hash out our differences with each other and keep going. Even a recent attempt to divide us failed.

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

Nah, among The 30 we are able to hash out our differences with each other and keep going. Even a recent attempt to divide us failed.

But that's a test/indication of loyalty; differences in a loyal group don't matter - loyalty always remains.

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flaming balloons

Honor - Choices that you make, reflect of whom you truly are
Courage - Rise above the masses, live your life complete and strong
Compassion - Is the power that must be used for the good of all
Loyal - To the ones in my care, standing true for what the cause

My soul has been searching, longing for something
I see my true self and I have learned well

Honesty - There are no shades of grey, only truth as it can be
Sincere - Don't need to give my word, to speak of such, is the same thing
Courtesy - There's no need to prove strength, even respect your enemies
Values - This is the code I feel, emotions without words, can speak

My soul has been searching, longing for something
I see my true self and I have learned well
My true self

Insight, intelligence, integrity, the honor that is in my soul

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Scorpions - Wind Of Change

"cRunchy" wrote:

I suspect even the concepts of belonging and loyalty exist even though simple text (with added colour from images) does not seem like it could replace the experience and quality of actually meeting in the flesh, speech or shared common physical spaces and environments. Or can it?

Participating in these forums is a friendly thing to do. We all come here and post as friendly people. Some are exceptions and may well be positively unfriendly in what they post and persist in posting, but that's just a minority.

Loyalty, I think, is not general, but arises specifically with certain people and the reasons for it may not be clear, logical, or easy to explain. I think it's hard to break a loyalty tie with someone, or even with 30. Loyalty, once it's there, just is.

I wasn't specifically thinking of the 30 as I started off on the net in usenet and still have friends who are now almost like distant siblings.

Loyalty is quite a powerful word as it impinges and intersects with all the history about being a loyal citizen, soldier, worker, slave or spouse.

For me the ability to overcome differences or stand together for the benefit of humanity is not a test of my 'loyalty' but about how complete I am as a social human being and about how much I am able to give up the hope of personal benefit so that the wider group or community can gain.

Personal friendships and group membership are slightly different things. I joined in the thread topic in good faith and was talking about 'friendship' not membership. Membership often has the tag of 'loyalty' attached to it.


It is quite clear the 30 (like the members of SETI*Supporters) have a strong common bond - I suspect created out of both friendships that have developed here on SETI and a common set of concerns, needs and hopes as well as desire to enjoy it's own community.


People making friends outside of the officialy recognised groups can only be a good thing.

People making friends outside of their official groups can only be a good thing.

Amen to that. I wasn't really thinking of the 30 "group" when I posted here last, although I use 30 and the double meaning of the 30 "group" as a pun, and am warmed by the publicity the 30 have been getting of late ;)

However, it must be said that the 30 are not a "group" as such, but merely like minded individuals who have come together to talk. Hence no leaders, no agenda, no rules, no weekly subs to pay - it's just an informal gathering who can say what they like without kids or controlling adults around. As such, loyalties outside this 30 "group" were there first and probably still take precedence.

I carefully put the word "group" in quotes because the 30 isn't a team or like any other group in BOINC boards. We are unique. We are not 3, we are not 300.

We are the 30.

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flaming balloons

But they will say to their grandchildren I was part of that, we did our bit, and friendships may well be made that will last for years.

Now that is worth repeating. But don't forget - women got the vote in the end. They persisted, and now they vote for the wrong parties like we all do.

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flaming balloons

SNIP...
That is all very true. Its interesting at present to read the reports about the Heathrow runway 2 protesters in West London. They've got solicitors, Engineers, office types, drop-outs, singles, couples, you name it in their camp compound. Some are just there for the camarderie, some just like to demonstrate about anything, some are there to object to the runway etc. But if the authorities try and move 'em they'll gang together like glue!

Point is at the end of the day, it will get built anyway, same as all the bypasses do. But they will say to their grandchildren I was part of that, we did our bit, and friendships may well be made that will last for years.

Do soldiers ever forget those who served with them, in war or peace?

That people have friendships and tell stories to their grandchildren is a natural state of affairs.

That people fight loosing battles is also natural for those with less or no power.

The two are parts of life but are not really connected.


I'm not sure what you are saying?

Are you suggesting the 30 are just hippies flexing their muscles and shouting lots and will eventually loose anyway but will have a few good (sad) stories to tell their kids? :o)))~