None of what you said makes any sense. It's not hard to find these 20 some odd terrorist attacks that were stopped. It's all public information. When a group plans to shoot up Fort Dix, blow up LAX or JFK airports, and set off dirty bombs in a city I don't call those 'terrorist wannabees' as you do. I call them terrorists. You don't have to be a card carrying member of Al Qaeda to be a terrorist.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

None of what you said makes any sense. It's not hard to find these 20 some odd terrorist attacks that were stopped. It's all public information. When a group plans to shoot up Fort Dix, blow up LAX or JFK airports, and set off dirty bombs in a city I don't call those 'terrorist wannabees' as you do. I call them terrorists. You don't have to be a card carrying member of Al Qaeda to be a terrorist.

Right. You also can be a paid employee of the CIA or any other secret service, for example.
How did M. Scheuer, a 22 year CIA veteran say: "The CIA has the right to break any law."

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Account frozen...

None of what you said makes any sense. It's not hard to find these 20 some odd terrorist attacks that were stopped. It's all public information. When a group plans to shoot up Fort Dix, blow up LAX or JFK airports, and set off dirty bombs in a city I don't call those 'terrorist wannabees' as you do. I call them terrorists. You don't have to be a card carrying member of Al Qaeda to be a terrorist.

Right. You also can be a paid employee of the CIA or any other secret service, for example.
How did M. Scheuer, a 22 year CIA veteran say: "The CIA has the right to break any law."

You figured me out. I'm CIA through and through. Always have been. Yes, the CIA breaks laws overseas per instruction. All intelligence agencies do. Spying is after all against the laws of other nations.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

(me at work)

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Are we supposed to take the governments word that they stopped these attacks?

If we don't, there will be another 'terrorist' attack...

Haven't you noticed that the 'terrorists' always seem to show up at the most convenient of times... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

the 'terrorists' always seem to show up at the most convenient of times

Not especially convenient if you're killed or wounded. The escalated terrorist threat alerts here in the US do seem to coincide with political convenience, (bad poll figures, bad employment news, etc), but terrorists, I think not.

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Check out the big brain on Bobby!!!

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Heh, thx Mr Gray, but I can assure you that when a terrorist shows up it is usually not at a convenient time or place. Having lived in the London through several IRA campaigns here's a few of the inconveniences terrorists caused me there:

building I worked in was damaged by bomb,
a bus on route I regularly used was bombed,
train station I regularly went through was bombed,
RAF base my father worked at was bombed

I moved to NYC in May '99 and from March '00 to 11 Sept '01 was working in offices one block from the WTC (at Broadway and Fulton), so I have a little experience (of both terrorists and (in)security alerts) upon which to base my opinion.

Fortunately for me, I've not been in close physical proximity to these events when they've occurred, but I've known people that weren't as fortunate.

Holy *Bleeeeeeep*,

Glad your ok after all that and thank you for sharing your experiences and thoughts with us!

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Haven't you noticed that the 'terrorists' always seem to show up at the most convenient of times... ;)

I rather understand that what was meant are "the politically most convenient of times" -- terrorists often seem to be appear exact at times when politicians discuss about even more security measures, and they attack only such places or persons with the most effective security control so far, which needs a lot of preparation and support. But unlike other criminals, after their deed they immediately "let" everyone know who dunnit. Strange, huh?

bobby, glad you're still okay. And I bow my head in respect to those who lost their life or health at such terror attacks.

But I still have my doubts that the 'terrorists' really do work against the system as everyone of us is always taught by media & politicians.

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Account frozen...

the effect of which is like a meteor hitting the earth...

Oh yes... A 'tin foil' airplane would most definitely resemble a 'solid chunk of iron' meteor... ;)

Your again showing your ignorance again Jeffery...would you then kindly explain how a piece of hay can be driven into solid wood by a tornado.
250,000 pounds "tin foil" as you call it traveling at 700mph in a full throttle power dive would ruin your day...including the total disintegration of your white death shroud and turning you into toasted disassociated mulch.

Hmm.. 250000 lbs... 700mph... (1/2)mv^2.... ouch. Thats about 5.6 gigaJoules of kinetic energy to dissipate in the fraction of a second that the impact took. 'Ruin your day' is a total understatement.

To put it in perspective, thats enough energy to heat up 1.3 million liters of water 1 degree C. And that doesn't count the heat released in the flash explosion of the remaining fuel on board.

And yet I've never seen an airplane leave a crater in the earths surface... Go figure... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

terrorists often seem to be appear exact at times when politicians discuss about even more security measures, and they attack only such places or persons with the most effective security control so far

In the lead up to 9/11 I don't recall any politicians suddenly showing an interest in terrorists and security measures, and it stretches credulity to its limits to think that the US had the most effective security controls at that time (ever flown to Israel?).

Yes, I did catch the "politically convenient" aspect of the original comment, but it didn't make sense. From what I've seen, terrorists show their hands at times of their own choosing, whether this coincides with any sort of political convenience is coincidental.

If you think back to the attack on 3/11/04 in Madrid, the (then) ruling politicians found it extremely inconvenient, so much so they lost an election, and Spain withdrew its forces from Iraq. There the politicians at first attempted to portray the attack as stemming from the indiginous Basque separatists (ETA) rather than an Al Queada offshoot. And the 7/7/05 attack on London did nothing for Tony Blair's popularity in the UK.

As I said, terrorist threat alerts are a different matter, but these are entirely under the control of politicians and, again from my experience.

But unlike other criminals, after their deed they immediately "let" everyone know who dunnit. Strange, huh?

I don't recall any IRA terrorists standing up and saying I did it, at least not without a disguise. Sure terrorist organizations claim "credit", but this does not seem so strange to me, and not so different than the way street and criminal gangs behave.

And yet I've never seen an airplane leave a crater in the earths surface

Plenty of planes that fell from the sky during WW2 left craters, and their airspeed was significantly less than Flight 93's, you just need to talk to somebody from that generation who can describe for you what happens when, for instance, a Lancaster flying at 10,000 ft has its cockpit detroyed on it's way back from a bombing mission.

If you're talking about commercial airplanes then I think you're probably remembering times when pilots have attempted emergency landings under less than ideal conditions. I don't think it's appropriate to compare the piloting of regular crews attempting to save lives and the hijackers of Flight 93.

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

And yet I've never seen an airplane leave a crater in the earths surface... Go figure... ;)

Craters are usually formed when a large amount of mass impacts a larger amount of mass. Considering that most of the weight in an airplane is the fuel, most planes do not have the mass to form a crater.

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Hopefully the cosmos is not trying to reverse the charges.
Moderation in all things.

None of what you said makes any sense. It's not hard to find these 20 some odd terrorist attacks that were stopped. It's all public information. When a group plans to shoot up Fort Dix, blow up LAX or JFK airports, and set off dirty bombs in a city I don't call those 'terrorist wannabees' as you do. I call them terrorists. You don't have to be a card carrying member of Al Qaeda to be a terrorist.

You still don't get it. If the terrorists really wanted to blow something up, they would have done so already. The plots that the government has uncovered so far are plots that were hatched by groups that were very small and had little or no operational security.

As for Fort Dix, do you really think any terrorist with 2 functional brain cells would attack a military base in the US?

You don't have to be a card carrying member of Al Qaeda, but it helps, though I doubt they carry cards. That would make finding them way to easy.

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Hopefully the cosmos is not trying to reverse the charges.
Moderation in all things.

You guys are just using self-serving definitions of "terrorist" to suit your political agenda.

I mostly let Thorin get away with his glaring errors in definitions, given the language issue, but you guys don't count there.

You can't call them terrorists (or not) to suit your silly political ideology because it weakens your argument.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

Craters are usually formed when a large amount of mass impacts a larger amount of mass. Considering that most of the weight in an airplane is the fuel, most planes do not have the mass to form a crater.

Craters in dirt are also formed during explosions.

Given the speed the plane was traveling, the rate at which about 200K pounds impacted the earth, and the resulting explosion, a crater not only isn't a stretch, it's likely.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

None of what you said makes any sense. It's not hard to find these 20 some odd terrorist attacks that were stopped. It's all public information. When a group plans to shoot up Fort Dix, blow up LAX or JFK airports, and set off dirty bombs in a city I don't call those 'terrorist wannabees' as you do. I call them terrorists. You don't have to be a card carrying member of Al Qaeda to be a terrorist.

You still don't get it. If the terrorists really wanted to blow something up, they would have done so already. The plots that the government has uncovered so far are plots that were hatched by groups that were very small and had little or no operational security.

As for Fort Dix, do you really think any terrorist with 2 functional brain cells would attack a military base in the US?

You don't have to be a card carrying member of Al Qaeda, but it helps, though I doubt they carry cards. That would make finding them way to easy.

I myself have driven a large cargo truck onto a local base. Uninspected. It's easy. Good thing I'm a patriot. Imagine what someone else might do.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

None of what you said makes any sense. It's not hard to find these 20 some odd terrorist attacks that were stopped. It's all public information. When a group plans to shoot up Fort Dix, blow up LAX or JFK airports, and set off dirty bombs in a city I don't call those 'terrorist wannabees' as you do. I call them terrorists. You don't have to be a card carrying member of Al Qaeda to be a terrorist.

You still don't get it. If the terrorists really wanted to blow something up, they would have done so already. The plots that the government has uncovered so far are plots that were hatched by groups that were very small and had little or no operational security.

As for Fort Dix, do you really think any terrorist with 2 functional brain cells would attack a military base in the US?

You don't have to be a card carrying member of Al Qaeda, but it helps, though I doubt they carry cards. That would make finding them way to easy.

I myself have driven a large cargo truck onto a local base. Uninspected. It's easy. Good thing I'm a patriot. Imagine what someone else might do.

Why are you not being inspected? Isn't that what Homeland Security is supposed to be doing? Even patriots have been know to destroy or blow things up.

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Hopefully the cosmos is not trying to reverse the charges.
Moderation in all things.

Craters are usually formed when a large amount of mass impacts a larger amount of mass. Considering that most of the weight in an airplane is the fuel, most planes do not have the mass to form a crater.

Craters in dirt are also formed during explosions.

Given the speed the plane was traveling, the rate at which about 200K pounds impacted the earth, and the resulting explosion, a crater not only isn't a stretch, it's likely.

Analyists say the plane was travelling at or over the speed of sound upon impact. It is typical that debris lands 1-2 miles away even though the impact crater is 50 degrees or thereabouts. The internet rumors that debris was found 6.8 miles away is false. That phony claim was based on a google map drive time. It was 6.8 miles if you DROVE BY CAR. Not 'as the crow flies'.....

Yet Alex Jones and the rest of the conspiracy nutjobs keep parroting it.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!