Thank you, Rush, and Jeffrey,

Rush: Do you happen to know how much taxes are in countries who provide medical care for everyone in their country? If yes, does this amount seem to be higher or lower that what the average middle class individual/family, in America pays per month?

I am learning and can not choose a side yet. I can tell you of some horror stories a couple of my family members endured, but won't. We are middle class citizens. Patriotic to the bone but keep our eyes open.

I know only one thing that troubles me. Our medical system has failed our citizens and lives are changed and lost daily. 40 million Americans have no medical insurance to be denied by. The government's references to communism as the ultimate rebuttal may appeal to many Baby Boomers, but to me it illustrates, in color, how our government wants to handle this situation.

Are open debates about social issues so unbearable to our leaders? Why do elected officials get money for making decisions in favor of systems that benefit a small group while we sit wondering what happened and why we have to suffer and die for that wealth? When did money become more important than the people who pay it? Do people with pre existing m edical conditions need to die because no one will cover them?

I don't know so must ask you all.

Thank you for talking about this. Fear is no way to live life. Speak freely and please help fix this problem.


Your friend,

MrGray

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

The government's references to communism as the ultimate rebuttal may appeal to many Baby Boomers

Based on their rhetoric, the boomers have never left Vietnam or Woodstock... And the scary part is, they make up a large majority of the people in this country, hold most of the wealth, and make most of the rules...

I don't mean this as an attack on the boomers but rather, a wake up call and a plea... Please step down and let others have a go at things... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

None of them have any duty to provide (maybe family).

'To whom much is given, much will be required.'... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Rush: Do you happen to know how much taxes are in countries who provide medical care for everyone in their country? If yes, does this amount seem to be higher or lower that what the average middle class individual/family, in America pays per month?

I don't remember specific numbers but I'm not sure what you're asking here. If I remember correctly, total tax burden in, say the UK, is easily 1 and 1/2 times that of the U.S., Canada is like 1 and 3/4, whereas in places like Sweden it's a little more than double. Like I said, they pay, and they pay dearly.

I am learning and can not choose a side yet. I can tell you of some horror stories a couple of my family members endured, but won't. We are middle class citizens. Patriotic to the bone but keep our eyes open.

Eh, some companies suck. But that's no different than the horror stories of socialized medicine--they don't pay for everything either. You simply die because they simply cannot afford to keep everyone alive.

I know only one thing that troubles me. Our medical system has failed our citizens and lives are changed and lost daily. 40 million Americans have no medical insurance to be denied by.

No, "our" citizens have begged the gov't to meddle and regulate, and therefore, as was evidenced in the Prostitution Insurance, drives costs relentlessly higher. Not to mention, insured individuals believe that "someone else" is paying for their health care, so they have every incentive to waste the resource and drive costs higher still.

Are open debates about social issues so unbearable to our leaders? Why do elected officials get money for making decisions in favor of systems that benefit a small group while we sit wondering what happened and why we have to suffer and die for that wealth?

Because you (not you personally) begged them to meddle. In general and by their very nature, laws ALWAYS benefit one person at the expense of another. When you beg to be protected from the eeeevil insurance company and everyone is protected from the eeeevil insurance company, costs are driven higher. Relentlessly.

Unlike, of course, where large corporations have to try like hell to crush each other to earn their customers on the free market. Generally they end up providing goods and services as cheaply and efficiently as they can, and driving prices down.

When did money become more important than the people who pay it?

Because everything has a cost. Everything. Every single thing. Money is what is generally used to pay those costs. Think, for example, what Cuba's health care system would be like if it did not pay for what it uses. Meaning it didn't pay large American corporations (through third parties) for defibrillators, drugs, or stethoscopes. Their health care would consist of little more than the doctor praying for you. Or they could use leeches. Not American leeches. But leeches nonetheless.

Do people with pre existing m edical conditions need to die because no one will cover them?

Why won't you cover them? Or, why do Dogbytes and Thorin refuse to cover them? If you aren't willing, and that's OK, and Dogbytes and Thorin aren't willing, and that's OK, then it's OK that no one else is willing either. Think about that.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

None of them have any duty to provide (maybe family).

'To whom much is given, much more will be required.'

Yeah. Good luck with that.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

May we vote?

I would vote to care for my fellow man.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

May we vote?

I would vote to care for my fellow man.

Then do it. No one is stopping you.

But you don't.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

Then do it. No one is stopping you.

I would, but can't do it alone.


Any more votes?

If you vote can you make a running tally from this:

1 for
1 against

That way we can keep track of it per vote and the next voter can tally easily.

Thank you!


.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Then do it. No one is stopping you.

I would, but can't do it alone.

No one said you have to do it alone. As I said before, get everyone that thinks as you do together and get it done. You don't even have to convince them, they already agree with you. Round them up and get started. What are you waiting for?

People are dying.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

I would, but can't do it alone.

As my neighbor so eloquently informed me: 'There are more of us than there are of you.'

I'll leave the 'interpretation' to you... But I do believe that it's quite obvious which side I'm on... While I've personally given up on the battle, when the revolution begins, rest assured, I will be on the front lines fighting with more fever than ever before... Unless death finds me first, which is very likely considering the mentality of the opposition...

This movie was appropriately named, in more ways than one... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Perhap no one will,

Isn't there something really, really, wrong about that?

2 For
1 Against




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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

large corporations have to try like hell to crush each other to earn their customers on the free market. Generally they end up providing goods and services as cheaply and efficiently as they can, and driving prices down.
-Rush

This has not been the case with HMO's. They compete, sure, and they drive the prices UP.

As for the higher taxes in nations with universal healthcare, the superior quality of life is more than worth the extra dough.

Aside - Rush, have you had the chance to view the movie? It is quite powerful and may surprise you.

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DONATE TO SETI

So, if you have seen the movie, you (and me) have an idea about healthcare in the US, Canada, UK, France and Cuba. Can some of the forums German, Australian, Japanese or other Lovely Nationalities that I am forgeting right now, tell us about Pros and Cons of your healthcare systems?

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DONATE TO SETI

large corporations have to try like hell to crush each other to earn their customers on the free market. Generally they end up providing goods and services as cheaply and efficiently as they can, and driving prices down.

This has not been the case with HMO's. They compete, sure, and they drive the prices UP.

Except that, well, they do not compete head-to-head for consumers like Dell, Gateway, and IBM/Lenovo do, not by any sense of the word, mostly for previously mentioned reasons. Because they do not, they do help drive prices up.

As for the higher taxes in nations with universal healthcare, the superior quality of life is more than worth the extra dough.

If you have anything to add to your self-serving conclusory comment, I'm sure we'd all be interesting in hearing it.

That ~you~ feel it is worth the extry dough, does not mean that that is true for anyone else. Nor does it mean there is a superior quality of life--rationed health care means those countries don't keep everyone alive. They make the same decisions (who gets treatment and who doesn't) based on the same reasoning (costs) that private insurance companies do. It isn't free, you pay dearly for it, and you can't go anywhere else when you aren't happy with the treatment you do receive. Lovely.

Aside - Rush, have you had the chance to view the movie? It is quite powerful and may surprise you.

Yeah. It's Moore and his usual shtick, preaching to the choir and pandering to those who really can't be bothered to look any deeper than what he puts on the screen.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

What if it actually worked out to be cheaper for we, US citizens?

Yo Pawly,

I noticed the Canadian Flag in your banner sig and wonder if you could tell us about the Canadian pros and cons? If your not Canadian I apologize in advance.




.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Yo Pawly,

I noticed the Canadian Flag in your banner sig and wonder if you could tell us about the Canadian pros and cons? If your not Canadian I apologize in advance.

Uh oh....now yer in for it. Pawly is actually a Norwegian Swimsuit Model with a very bad attitude!!!!

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Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

Except that, well, they do not compete head-to-head for consumers like Dell, Gateway, and IBM/Lenovo do, not by any sense of the word, mostly for previously mentioned reasons. Because they do not, they do help drive prices up.

Don't HMO's compete for Corporate contracts? Don't they all advertise?

If you have anything to add to your self-serving conclusory comment, I'm sure we'd all be interesting in hearing it.

I'll let that one slide seeing as I could say the same about your posts.

That ~you~ feel it is worth the extry dough, does not mean that that is true for anyone else. Nor does it mean there is a superior quality of life--rationed health care means those countries don't keep everyone alive. They make the same decisions (who gets treatment and who doesn't) based on the same reasoning (costs) that private insurance companies do. It isn't free, you pay dearly for it, and you can't go anywhere else when you aren't happy with the treatment you do receive. Lovely.

I don't think you get it. The point is, "No one goes without". Do you not understand the concept of taking care of your fellow man? "Me First" attitudes are what got you folks in the mess you're in.

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DONATE TO SETI

What if it actually worked out to be cheaper for we, US citizens?

Yo Pawly,

I noticed the Canadian Flag in your banner sig and wonder if you could tell us about the Canadian pros and cons? If your not Canadian I apologize in advance.

.

Who's a Canuck? lol Yup! Ya got me pegged.

Like any system, it is not even close to being perfect. Wait times can be bad sometimes and we still need to pay for prescriptions. But the benefits of the system far outweigh the costs. Ask an average Canadian what they like about Canada and Free Healthcare comes close to the top.

There has been talk of a "Two Teir" system. Those that can afford to pay for treatment can do so and receive much faster service and than the rest. Not sure how I feel about that one yet. On the one side it is kinda insulting to the average joe but on the other hand the money would be funneled back into the Healthcare system (in theory).

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DONATE TO SETI

Yo Pawly,

I noticed the Canadian Flag in your banner sig and wonder if you could tell us about the Canadian pros and cons? If your not Canadian I apologize in advance.

Uh oh....now yer in for it. Pawly is actually a Norwegian Swimsuit Model with a very bad attitude!!!!

JA JA!

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DONATE TO SETI

Lol Knightmare!


Thank you Pawly. Pretty good guess on your Counrty huh? Lol


2 For
1 Against

1 Opinion for other country with:

Canada - Positive *See below*




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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss