O.k., here I go with a 'what if', see what you think. Since I am not there yet, but I am close to Wolf 359, I have an idea. Since we know that time is relative, and the fastest natural speed is that of the speed of light (186,000 Miles per second, roughly), Startrek came up with Warp-Drive. Warp-Drive alters the relative space around a vehicle (the warp field) and then moves the ship through the warped field to achieve speeds greater then that of the speed of light while staying at a constant in referance to time passing normally on the planet Earth (or any other planet in this universe). So, in theory, Startrek ships can go faster then the speed of light without any adverse side effects.

What if, I was to build a ship (or NASA) using today's best engineering and materials. We know that this ship could not possibly achieve light speed (although it could come close with an ion engine and some time I think), at our current technology level. So, we take this new ship, and run full steam at our own sun (SOL) and loop around it to gain speed (the sling shot method), and maybe a planet or two on our way to Wolf 359. As we leave our solar system behind, we use this sling shot method to increase our speed every chance we get with any moon, planet, or star on the way, plus our ion engine is still burning at 100%. Theortically, we would get close to the speed of light after a while (depending upon output of the ion drive system, number of planets, moons, and stars sling shotted around), thus, speed would be sped up for us (and time passage would be slowed for us) on the ship compared to those of us still on mother Earth. I believe some scientists have dubbed this the 'red shift of time travel' or whatever term you like to use. Basically, we in the ship would get to Wolf 359 faster then we thought since time would be slowed down for us on the ship, while time was static (the same) for everyone else back home. And, since we would be still increasing our speed, wouldn't we eventually achieve light speed and beyond after Wolf 359? Since there is no drag or friction to slow us down, and the ion drive is a continuous force (since it scoops up any matter found in space during flight), we might actually surpass the speed of light naturally, without warp-drive.

Now that you have heard my what if...how crazy or realistic do you think this idea is??? (honest replies please...but be nice if you disagree)

---

O.k., here I go with a 'what if', see what you think. Since I am not there yet, but I am close to Wolf 359, I have an idea. Since we know that time is relative, and the fastest natural speed is that of the speed of light (186,000 Miles per second, roughly), Startrek came up with Warp-Drive. Warp-Drive alters the relative space around a vehicle (the warp field) and then moves the ship through the warped field to achieve speeds greater then that of the speed of light while staying at a constant in referance to time passing normally on the planet Earth (or any other planet in this universe). So, in theory, Startrek ships can go faster then the speed of light without any adverse side effects.

What if, I was to build a ship (or NASA) using today's best engineering and materials. We know that this ship could not possibly achieve light speed (although it could come close with an ion engine and some time I think), at our current technology level. So, we take this new ship, and run full steam at our own sun (SOL) and loop around it to gain speed (the sling shot method), and maybe a planet or two on our way to Wolf 359. As we leave our solar system behind, we use this sling shot method to increase our speed every chance we get with any moon, planet, or star on the way, plus our ion engine is still burning at 100%. Theortically, we would get close to the speed of light after a while (depending upon output of the ion drive system, number of planets, moons, and stars sling shotted around), thus, speed would be sped up for us (and time passage would be slowed for us) on the ship compared to those of us still on mother Earth. I believe some scientists have dubbed this the 'red shift of time travel' or whatever term you like to use. Basically, we in the ship would get to Wolf 359 faster then we thought since time would be slowed down for us on the ship, while time was static (the same) for everyone else back home. And, since we would be still increasing our speed, wouldn't we eventually achieve light speed and beyond after Wolf 359? Since there is no drag or friction to slow us down, and the ion drive is a continuous force (since it scoops up any matter found in space during flight), we might actually surpass the speed of light naturally, without warp-drive.

Now that you have heard my what if...how crazy or realistic do you think this idea is??? (honest replies please...but be nice if you disagree)

The answer is simple. Without some sort of "warp" or "tachyon" drive, the speed of your vehicle can never exceed (or even match) the speed of the exhaust of the propulsion system Since an ion engine has an exhaust velocity of near light speed (not exact I think but close) you could only approach the speed of the engine's exhaust. Here you get into the law of diminishing returns. The faster you travel, the less you are able to accelerate. Of course this is just theory since no one has been able to accelerate a ship to these velocities to test it. There may be some unknown law come into play at near relativistic velocities that we are not aware of.

---

Jim

Some people plan their life out and look back at the wealth they've had.
Others live life day by day and look back at the wealth of experiences and enjoyment they've had.

O.k., here I go with a 'what if', see what you think. Since I am not there yet, but I am close to Wolf 359, I have an idea. Since we know that time is relative, and the fastest natural speed is that of the speed of light (186,000 Miles per second, roughly), Startrek came up with Warp-Drive. Warp-Drive alters the relative space around a vehicle (the warp field) and then moves the ship through the warped field to achieve speeds greater then that of the speed of light while staying at a constant in referance to time passing normally on the planet Earth (or any other planet in this universe). So, in theory, Startrek ships can go faster then the speed of light without any adverse side effects.

What if, I was to build a ship (or NASA) using today's best engineering and materials. We know that this ship could not possibly achieve light speed (although it could come close with an ion engine and some time I think), at our current technology level. So, we take this new ship, and run full steam at our own sun (SOL) and loop around it to gain speed (the sling shot method), and maybe a planet or two on our way to Wolf 359. As we leave our solar system behind, we use this sling shot method to increase our speed every chance we get with any moon, planet, or star on the way, plus our ion engine is still burning at 100%. Theortically, we would get close to the speed of light after a while (depending upon output of the ion drive system, number of planets, moons, and stars sling shotted around), thus, speed would be sped up for us (and time passage would be slowed for us) on the ship compared to those of us still on mother Earth. I believe some scientists have dubbed this the 'red shift of time travel' or whatever term you like to use. Basically, we in the ship would get to Wolf 359 faster then we thought since time would be slowed down for us on the ship, while time was static (the same) for everyone else back home. And, since we would be still increasing our speed, wouldn't we eventually achieve light speed and beyond after Wolf 359? Since there is no drag or friction to slow us down, and the ion drive is a continuous force (since it scoops up any matter found in space during flight), we might actually surpass the speed of light naturally, without warp-drive.

Now that you have heard my what if...how crazy or realistic do you think this idea is??? (honest replies please...but be nice if you disagree)

The answer is simple. Without some sort of "warp" or "tachyon" drive, the speed of your vehicle can never exceed (or even match) the speed of the exhaust of the propulsion system Since an ion engine has an exhaust velocity of near light speed (not exact I think but close) you could only approach the speed of the engine's exhaust. Here you get into the law of diminishing returns. The faster you travel, the less you are able to accelerate. Of course this is just theory since no one has been able to accelerate a ship to these velocities to test it. There may be some unknown law come into play at near relativistic velocities that we are not aware of.

In addition to that there is "drag" in space. If I remember correctly the normal estimated density in space is one atom per cubic meter. At relativistic speeds that can be significant resistance to movement.

---

BOINC WIKI

BOINCing since 2002/12/8

O.k., here I go with a 'what if', see what you think. Since I am not there yet, but I am close to Wolf 359, I have an idea. Since we know that time is relative, and the fastest natural speed is that of the speed of light (186,000 Miles per second, roughly), Startrek came up with Warp-Drive. Warp-Drive alters the relative space around a vehicle (the warp field) and then moves the ship through the warped field to achieve speeds greater then that of the speed of light while staying at a constant in referance to time passing normally on the planet Earth (or any other planet in this universe). So, in theory, Startrek ships can go faster then the speed of light without any adverse side effects.

What if, I was to build a ship (or NASA) using today's best engineering and materials. We know that this ship could not possibly achieve light speed (although it could come close with an ion engine and some time I think), at our current technology level. So, we take this new ship, and run full steam at our own sun (SOL) and loop around it to gain speed (the sling shot method), and maybe a planet or two on our way to Wolf 359. As we leave our solar system behind, we use this sling shot method to increase our speed every chance we get with any moon, planet, or star on the way, plus our ion engine is still burning at 100%. Theortically, we would get close to the speed of light after a while (depending upon output of the ion drive system, number of planets, moons, and stars sling shotted around), thus, speed would be sped up for us (and time passage would be slowed for us) on the ship compared to those of us still on mother Earth. I believe some scientists have dubbed this the 'red shift of time travel' or whatever term you like to use. Basically, we in the ship would get to Wolf 359 faster then we thought since time would be slowed down for us on the ship, while time was static (the same) for everyone else back home. And, since we would be still increasing our speed, wouldn't we eventually achieve light speed and beyond after Wolf 359? Since there is no drag or friction to slow us down, and the ion drive is a continuous force (since it scoops up any matter found in space during flight), we might actually surpass the speed of light naturally, without warp-drive.

Now that you have heard my what if...how crazy or realistic do you think this idea is??? (honest replies please...but be nice if you disagree)

The answer is simple. Without some sort of "warp" or "tachyon" drive, the speed of your vehicle can never exceed (or even match) the speed of the exhaust of the propulsion system Since an ion engine has an exhaust velocity of near light speed (not exact I think but close) you could only approach the speed of the engine's exhaust. Here you get into the law of diminishing returns. The faster you travel, the less you are able to accelerate. Of course this is just theory since no one has been able to accelerate a ship to these velocities to test it. There may be some unknown law come into play at near relativistic velocities that we are not aware of.

In addition to that there is "drag" in space. If I remember correctly the normal estimated density in space is one atom per cubic meter. At relativistic speeds that can be significant resistance to movement.

Also, If I remember correctly, the objects gain mass (quickly) as they approach the speed of light, going to infinite mass at speed of light? SMR

---

Good thoughts...I can't believe I forgot about the drag factor...I swear I did know that, just slipped my mind. And yes, true, the ion drive would be only somewhat near the speed of light pushing out particles for the 'equal and oppisite force' but wouldn't the increased speed of the sling shot effect (using the gravitiy of moons, planets, and stars) along the way increase the speed even more...before the drag factor caught up with us? Even for a little bit, I think within the travels if we 'sling shoted' around enough other bodies and with the ion drive, wouldn't we get to the speed of light?

---

Also, If I remember correctly, the objects gain mass (quickly) as they approach the speed of light, going to infinite mass at speed of light?

That’s a rather old-fashioned way to describe the situation; from what I gather the current practice is to reserve the term “mass” for rest mass, which is invariant, applying the Lorentz transforms to the momentum (mass * velocity) instead. It can be a more convenient way to picture what’s going on, but if you use the term take care to qualify it as “relativistic mass”. Anyway, the outcome is the same: the faster you go, the less effect a given amount of thrust will seem to have on your velocity.

Bear in mind that this is from the point of view of an observer at your starting point. Your ship would seem to perform quite normally from on board; in particular you’d feel the same gee-forces as usual from a given amount of engine-power.

I recommend the Usenet Relativity FAQ’s Relativistic Rocket and What would a relativistic interstellar traveller see? articles as a primer on the implications of relavity for spaceflight.

Good thoughts...I can't believe I forgot about the drag factor...I swear I did know that, just slipped my mind. And yes, true, the ion drive would be only somewhat near the speed of light pushing out particles for the 'equal and oppisite force' but wouldn't the increased speed of the sling shot effect (using the gravitiy of moons, planets, and stars) along the way increase the speed even more...before the drag factor caught up with us? Even for a little bit, I think within the travels if we 'sling shoted' around enough other bodies and with the ion drive, wouldn't we get to the speed of light?

If I am thinking correctly a "sling shot" does not increase the maximum speed of a space vehicle, it just enables faster changes in the velocity vector. ie. The spacecraft could eventually reach whatever speed and direction comes out of the "sling shot" provided it had unlimited fuel and time.

---

BOINC WIKI

BOINCing since 2002/12/8

Good thoughts...I can't believe I forgot about the drag factor...I swear I did know that, just slipped my mind. And yes, true, the ion drive would be only somewhat near the speed of light pushing out particles for the 'equal and oppisite force' but wouldn't the increased speed of the sling shot effect (using the gravitiy of moons, planets, and stars) along the way increase the speed even more...before the drag factor caught up with us? Even for a little bit, I think within the travels if we 'sling shoted' around enough other bodies and with the ion drive, wouldn't we get to the speed of light?

If I am thinking correctly a "sling shot" does not increase the maximum speed of a space vehicle, it just enables faster changes in the velocity vector. ie. The spacecraft could eventually reach whatever speed and direction comes out of the "sling shot" provided it had unlimited fuel and time.

No, the "slingshot" effect is real...just ask NASA.

You would think that an object entering a gravity well would gain speed as it approached the massive object, but would bleed away all that gain in momentum as it climbed out of the gravity well. And if the object creating the gravity well was truely stationary, that's what would happen.

However, the planets being used for the slingshot maneuver are in orbit around the sun. Depending on whether the spacecraft passes "in front of" or "behind" the planet, the passage through the gravity well will be longer on the way in and shorter on the way out (speeds up spacecraft) or vice versa (slows it down). Remember, the gravity well is MOVING with the PLANET!

The net effect is that the spacecraft gains (or loses) speed by (minutely) slowing down (or speeding up) the orbit of the planet as it passes.

Good thoughts...I can't believe I forgot about the drag factor...I swear I did know that, just slipped my mind. And yes, true, the ion drive would be only somewhat near the speed of light pushing out particles for the 'equal and oppisite force' but wouldn't the increased speed of the sling shot effect (using the gravitiy of moons, planets, and stars) along the way increase the speed even more...before the drag factor caught up with us? Even for a little bit, I think within the travels if we 'sling shoted' around enough other bodies and with the ion drive, wouldn't we get to the speed of light?

If I am thinking correctly a "sling shot" does not increase the maximum speed of a space vehicle, it just enables faster changes in the velocity vector. ie. The spacecraft could eventually reach whatever speed and direction comes out of the "sling shot" provided it had unlimited fuel and time.

No, the "slingshot" effect is real...just ask NASA.

You would think that an object entering a gravity well would gain speed as it approached the massive object, but would bleed away all that gain in momentum as it climbed out of the gravity well. And if the object creating the gravity well was truely stationary, that's what would happen.

However, the planets being used for the slingshot maneuver are in orbit around the sun. Depending on whether the spacecraft passes "in front of" or "behind" the planet, the passage through the gravity well will be longer on the way in and shorter on the way out (speeds up spacecraft) or vice versa (slows it down). Remember, the gravity well is MOVING with the PLANET!

The net effect is that the spacecraft gains (or loses) speed by (minutely) slowing down (or speeding up) the orbit of the planet as it passes.

Hmm, since we're on a "mind trip" here...

Your post is all very true about the slingshot effect, but you must also consider that the faster you are traveling the less effective the slingshot would be around a "normal object". It might still be useful around a massive black hole. Something else to consider? It'd be nice if Einstein or Stephen Hawking were in here!

---

Jim

Some people plan their life out and look back at the wealth they've had.
Others live life day by day and look back at the wealth of experiences and enjoyment they've had.

Ahh! Finally made it.

It's humbling to think after 7 years and 10 months that wavefront I generated has only spread far enough to enclose 4 star systems. Pity we don't reside near the center of the galaxy where systems are packed much more tightly.

                                                               Joe

When you join SETI@home, the electronic transaction creates radio waves which travel outward at the speed of light. They're too faint to be detected at any significant distance, but they do exist.

At about 4 years and 4 months those waves reach the triple star system Alpha Centauri, around 6 years they reach Barnard's star, and at 7 years and 10 months they reach Wolf 359.

I'll be able to join the Wolf 359 club in about 3 months.

                                                  Joe

What's annoying to me is I cannot tie my account into my original account, which was formed around September, 1999.
Anyone still have links to the Classic page that gave stats by entering an e-mail address?

---

Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

When you join SETI@home, the electronic transaction creates radio waves which travel outward at the speed of light. They're too faint to be detected at any significant distance, but they do exist.

At about 4 years and 4 months those waves reach the triple star system Alpha Centauri, around 6 years they reach Barnard's star, and at 7 years and 10 months they reach Wolf 359.

I'll be able to join the Wolf 359 club in about 3 months.

                                                  Joe

What's annoying to me is I cannot tie my account into my original account, which was formed around September, 1999.
Anyone still have links to the Classic page that gave stats by entering an e-mail address?

Try the link at the bottom of this page.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/sah_classic.php

Claggy

---

That's a big ME TOO! About a week and 1/2 ago.

Ahh! Finally made it.

It's humbling to think after 7 years and 10 months that wavefront I generated has only spread far enough to enclose 4 star systems. Pity we don't reside near the center of the galaxy where systems are packed much more tightly.

                                                               Joe

[edit] another 7 weeks to join the 8 year club.

When you join SETI@home, the electronic transaction creates radio waves which travel outward at the speed of light. They're too faint to be detected at any significant distance, but they do exist.

At about 4 years and 4 months those waves reach the triple star system Alpha Centauri, around 6 years they reach Barnard's star, and at 7 years and 10 months they reach Wolf 359.

I'll be able to join the Wolf 359 club in about 3 months.

                                                  Joe

What's annoying to me is I cannot tie my account into my original account, which was formed around September, 1999.
Anyone still have links to the Classic page that gave stats by entering an e-mail address?

Try the link at the bottom of this page.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/sah_classic.php

Claggy

Claggy, I am referring to a page that provided stats, pre-BOINC days. Drk background.
As I said, my original e-mail account I signed up with has been inaccessible for years and so I cannot merge my original account with the one I formed in 2001.

---

Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

When you join SETI@home, the electronic transaction creates radio waves which travel outward at the speed of light. They're too faint to be detected at any significant distance, but they do exist.

At about 4 years and 4 months those waves reach the triple star system Alpha Centauri, around 6 years they reach Barnard's star, and at 7 years and 10 months they reach Wolf 359.

I'll be able to join the Wolf 359 club in about 3 months.

                                                  Joe

What's annoying to me is I cannot tie my account into my original account, which was formed around September, 1999.
Anyone still have links to the Classic page that gave stats by entering an e-mail address?

Try the link at the bottom of this page.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/sah_classic.php

Claggy

Claggy, I am referring to a page that provided stats, pre-BOINC days. Drk background.
As I said, my original e-mail account I signed up with has been inaccessible for years and so I cannot merge my original account with the one I formed in 2001.

I know the one you meant, that isn't available any more, deleted references
in my bookmarks for it on this computer, (Probably got it on my K6-2, but
it's 180miles away)
But there are Special instructions for users of Seti Classic, whose
old email address is no lomger valid!!!!! and that's why i posted that address.

Claggy.

---

Your current SETI@home/BOINC account is already linked to a Classic account.

Please click on "Your Account" and look in the "Work done" section to see your Classic statistics.

Stupid website set up --- I had an original SETI Classic account and then the e-mail address became invalid, followed by a second SETI Classic account formed in 2001, long before BOINC. Grrr.

---

Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

Claggy, I am referring to a page that provided stats, pre-BOINC days. Drk background.
As I said, my original e-mail account I signed up with has been inaccessible for years and so I cannot merge my original account with the one I formed in 2001.

The only remaining Classic stats I know of are the registration classes. If you know your original sign-up date, you should be able to find the account in there. The links on the lower half of the page are all useless—the data seem to peter out, sometime in 2002 IIRC—but I believe the Class(es) of ’99 to be intact.

---