How much energy is used to transport a barrel of crude and then process it into gasoline?

Too much.

I am all in favor of increased efficiency, and alternative fuels, but putting water in the gas tank is not going to work.

Many people could do with an electric vehicle - especially if the range between recharges was at least 150 miles. There is at least one electric vehicle with a range of greater than 200 miles, but it has 2 problems - it is $100K, and it seats 2 - acceleration is far more than adequate 0-60 in 4 seconds - top speed is more than adequate (~200MPH) - you can buy it next year (the orders are exceeding supply - you could have bought it last year if you ordered 2 years ago).

Screw hybrid cars. Check out Consumer Reports. An extra $1,000 for insurance and no resale value. They took a pack of them to Las Vegas and got 34 MPG. As a JOKE they also took a Corvette. The Corvette got 27 MPG. Think about it

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Anyway, in the Perpetual Motion link above you can read whats behind the so called law of Conservation of Energy.
To quote the gist of it:

Now, Helmholtz transformed his thinking into a mighty principle which he made the subject of a paper destined for the prestigious journal Deutsche Annalen Physik. No-one had ever succeeded, he wrote, in building a perpetual motion machine that worked. Therefore, such machines must be impossible. If they are impossible it must be by reason of some natural law preventing their construction. This law, he said, could only be the law of Conservation of Energy.

So this law is built on the concept that: No-one had ever succeeded in building a perpetual motion machine that worked. Therefore, such machines must be impossible.

That was indeed the original basis of the hypothesis. However, hypothesis get thrown out if there is any data that contradicts it.

Like I said. If they can actually produce one tha have it go through the scientific review process, then I will believe.

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BOINC WIKI

That was indeed the original basis of the hypothesis. However, hypothesis get thrown out if there is any data that contradicts it.

Like I said. If they can actually produce one tha have it go through the scientific review process, then I will believe.

Well, Stanley Meyer did produce more energi with his water fuel cell than it consumed, in front of a lot of witnesses. It sad that no scientist have wanted to explore on his discovery after his "death", or murder. And people that are trying to find out exactly how he did it are harassed, as the Indian guy above is...

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"The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible"
Arthur C. Clarke

"Science may set limits to knowledge, but should not set limits to imagination."
Bertrand Russel

That was indeed the original basis of the hypothesis. However, hypothesis get thrown out if there is any data that contradicts it.

Like I said. If they can actually produce one tha have it go through the scientific review process, then I will believe.

Well, Stanley Meyer did produce more energi with his water fuel cell than it consumed, in front of a lot of witnesses. It sad that no scientist have wanted to explore on his discovery after his "death", or murder. And people that are trying to find out exactly how he did it are harassed, as the Indian guy above is...

Did the witnesses get to see all of the power sources?

I seem to recall Pons and someone also made a claim of cold fusion. It was later proven that it did not work.

Just because the claim was made, even if there is a demonstration in front of witnesses, does not prove the claim. There are ways of fudging a demonstration so that it looks one way and is actually something else.

The proof is that other people not connected with the original experiment recreate it based on completely public records. i.e. only the published record is used to recreate the experiment - there is no back path to tell someone how to cheat and make it look like it is working. I would like to note the motorcycle that was running on "water based fuel" that was emmiting Oxides of Nitrogen and Carbon (carbon is not found in water). This was an obvious cheat, but it took someone from outside to do a careful investigation to prove it was a fake.

The experimenters have to prove that these things are true by allowing investigation of the complete process, and publishing the complete process to allow others to recreate the process. And no, they cannot get patent protection as the patent office will not patent perpetual motion machines anymore.

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BOINC WIKI

That was indeed the original basis of the hypothesis. However, hypothesis get thrown out if there is any data that contradicts it.

Like I said. If they can actually produce one tha have it go through the scientific review process, then I will believe.

Well, Stanley Meyer did produce more energi with his water fuel cell than it consumed, in front of a lot of witnesses. It sad that no scientist have wanted to explore on his discovery after his "death", or murder. And people that are trying to find out exactly how he did it are harassed, as the Indian guy above is...

Did the witnesses get to see all of the power sources?

I seem to recall Pons and someone also made a claim of cold fusion. It was later proven that it did not work.

Just because the claim was made, even if there is a demonstration in front of witnesses, does not prove the claim. There are ways of fudging a demonstration so that it looks one way and is actually something else.

The proof is that other people not connected with the original experiment recreate it based on completely public records. i.e. only the published record is used to recreate the experiment - there is no back path to tell someone how to cheat and make it look like it is working. I would like to note the motorcycle that was running on "water based fuel" that was emmiting Oxides of Nitrogen and Carbon (carbon is not found in water). This was an obvious cheat, but it took someone from outside to do a careful investigation to prove it was a fake.

The experimenters have to prove that these things are true by allowing investigation of the complete process, and publishing the complete process to allow others to recreate the process. And no, they cannot get patent protection as the patent office will not patent perpetual motion machines anymore.

Well, it's a little too late to check on exactly what happened at Stanleys demonstrations since it's about 10 year since he died.However, you would think that such an important discovery, if true, would merit some serious scientific investigation, given how important it would be. Pollution free cars...

However, the research about cold fusion haven't stopped. Scientist are still working on it:
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2007/08/cold_fusion?currentPage=all

MIT's Peter Hagelstein, on the other hand, said "cold fusion" reactions have yielded surplus energy from as far back as the initial experiments in 1989. Verification of these controversial results is not the problem -- many labs around the world have reproduced parts of the results many times.

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"The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible"
Arthur C. Clarke

"Science may set limits to knowledge, but should not set limits to imagination."
Bertrand Russel

But then again, considering scientists can be very narrow minded (its not surprising Stanleys discovery haven't been investigated), take for instance the wright brothers first flight. That website have also a few other examples...

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"The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible"
Arthur C. Clarke

"Science may set limits to knowledge, but should not set limits to imagination."
Bertrand Russel

Here's a wiki about Stan showing the patent numbers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fuel_cell

Reminds me of Edison's propaganda against A/C. But... so far no data on Stan's work can be retrieved.

Solution: Next person to crack the code should put it on the internet, FOR FREE!


John in correct in his stance on these matters, in that we need hard proof. I love reading all data presented by everyone here and know one day we will find something we can prove. Hopefully very soon!

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

However, the research about cold fusion haven't stopped. Scientist are still working on it:
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2007/08/cold_fusion?currentPage=all

There is nothing to indicate that cold fusion can't happen, and the possiblilities if it does work are very intriguing. It is just that Pons et al did not find it.

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BOINC WIKI

Something cool in the meantime:

http://www.exoticworldart.com/ufodbase/index.php?topic=2174.msg3922#msg3922

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

However, the research about cold fusion haven't stopped. Scientist are still working on it:
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2007/08/cold_fusion?currentPage=all

There is nothing to indicate that cold fusion can't happen, and the possiblilities if it does work are very intriguing. It is just that Pons et al did not find it.

The MIT did confirm the results from Pons and Fleischmann, however they falsified their results and claimed that they didn't get any results. You can read more about it at Infinite Energy. They did it because they was afraid research in HOT fusion (which was what they was working on, probably still is) would be abandoned if cold fusion was confirmed as a potential source for energy.
You cold probably find out more about it if you search for it. I skipped through an article about it a couple weeks ago, however because I'm no really interested in cold fusion I didn't read it.

Edit: From MIT Chief Science Writer, Dr. Eugene Mallove

I was the Chief Science Writer at the MIT news office when the cold fusion story out of Utah broke on March 23, 1989. It turns out the cold fusion effect was real. One day while at MIT, I inadvertently was looking through some piles of paper by physicists doing their repeat of the Pons-Fleischmann experiment. To my utter astonishment, I can remember sitting at my desk and actually seeing two sheets of paper, one dated July 10 and another July 13. The July 10 control experiment showed in the raw data excess heat. But then, on July 13, it was shifted completely. It was altered. Clear fraud—no question. I asked for a review at MIT. I got nowhere. Yet today, MIT data is held up. In fact, what Pons and Fleischmann found was only the tip of an iceberg. There are huge quantities of technical literature published by proponents, and a much smaller amount by the people who found so-called negative results. There has been an extraordinary abrogation of legal responsibility at the Patent Office and the Department of Energy on the matter of cold fusion. There is serious criminal activity going on that ultimately must be rooted out if the cold fusion and new energy revolution are to go forward.

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"The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible"
Arthur C. Clarke

"Science may set limits to knowledge, but should not set limits to imagination."
Bertrand Russel

Something cool in the meantime:

http://www.exoticworldart.com/ufodbase/index.php?topic=2174.msg3922#msg3922

I saw this on PBS a few weeks ago. It is very interesting. I would love to be able to build one here.

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What you do today you will have to live with tonight

Something cool in the meantime:

http://www.exoticworldart.com/ufodbase/index.php?topic=2174.msg3922#msg3922

I saw this on PBS a few weeks ago. It is very interesting. I would love to be able to build one here.

Thanks, Robert!


Freedom Fuels

http://joox.net/cat/44/id/1212732


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.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Freedom Fuels

http://joox.net/cat/44/id/1212732


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.

Cool!
That's an interesting website...

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"The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible"
Arthur C. Clarke

"Science may set limits to knowledge, but should not set limits to imagination."
Bertrand Russel

http://joox.net/cat/44/id/1212732


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.

Lots of interesting videos, including Nikola Tesla: The Genius Who Lit The World. Seems like he had a levitation machine...

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"The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible"
Arthur C. Clarke

"Science may set limits to knowledge, but should not set limits to imagination."
Bertrand Russel

http://joox.net/cat/44/id/1212732


http://www.divx.com plugin required



.

Lots of interesting videos, including Nikola Tesla: The Genius Who Lit The World. Seems like he had a levitation machine...

Yes, I beliefve it worked on a similar principle to the maglev trains (these levitate as well).

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BOINC WIKI

TESLA is the Man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

TESLA is the Man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!

And none of it is true!

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Not exactly running a car, but could halve your heating bill (a'la "free energy")

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"The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible"
Arthur C. Clarke

"Science may set limits to knowledge, but should not set limits to imagination."
Bertrand Russel

Nice Mikael,

Thank you!

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

so are all those rumors about Telsa being gay true ?

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