Hold the bus...I didnt say there was no other input..its a testing system... There is a bank of 8 ordinary 12 voly car batteries that are charged from a solar array on the roof when the car is parked, they also have a board/socket enabling them to be plugged into the mains if there has been no sun. there is an additional reasonable sized generator fitted under the bonnet to drive the
e-units and the batteries. The car has the backseat removed to enable the rear of the car to have the combination tank systems bolted into place. the tanks have "a LARGE SURFACE AREA electrode" eg a foil of types inside them (think capacitor like devices 1.5m length and 80cm width) . The motherboard with supply electronics to crack the water is on the floor in the rear. The whole thing hinges on the way the electricity is delivered to the cells.

The car creates hydrogen as it goes, the balance between tank size, electrode surface area (large), temperature, and energy pulses defines how much gas is produced.

It is NOT efficient, it does NOT accelerate like a normal car. When you can start the car from the reserve cannister of gas and drive 250km at about 75km/h ... and put the petrol money into the bank instead of the tank... I am not confused about efficiency nor worried about ferrari like performance. I have however enjoyed the scenery.

Ok, but in this case, why bother with the hydrogen at all? I know you said you are not overly concerned with the efficiency, but still... It would be a LOT more efficient to directly use electric motors rather than cracking water into hydrogen and then using a 'hydrogen motor'. Using both/either solar panels or 'plugging into the electric mains' to recharge the batteries is a good thing and makes sense. Wasting energy by electrically cracking water into hydrogen and oxygen gas, then wasting even more energy by burning the hydrogen/oxygen in a 'hydrogen motor' does not make sense.

Now don't get me wrong. I am not against research into alternative means of fueling and powering automobiles. However, efficiency is important, and I have yet to see a method that beats the efficiency of an all-electric car.

-from whence does your electricity flow ?-

All electric is ok.... but have you looked at the cost of battery replacement after 3 years. We need serious battery development work to create long life devices that are not ruined after 3 years or so of work. One comment heard here was, sell the vehicle after 2.75 years and let someone else have the problem,
- this seems to say it all really -
their problem is some of us know it and wont put up with this sort of commercial fleecing.

Auto manufacturers have looked at fuel-cell technology, but havent yet "realized" their profits. After looking into their mechanics they make the vehicle as complicated as possible and as "un-fixable" as possible (for the average joe).

Have been fiddling with the units and find as expected that higher temperature of the water makes a difference to the amount of O and H given off, the redesigned units will be high pressure, high temperature, high frequency.

Exhaust gas temp will be recycled to aid testing. We will be testing "steam" next month, and using rf input to cells to enhance generation.

Current thinking is also looking at testing the "smooth turbine", basically just a re-examination of the tesla/et-all device which claimed around 60% fuel efficiency. This will be interesting to see in comparison to internal combustion.

Hold the bus...I didnt say there was no other input..its a testing system... There is a bank of 8 ordinary 12 voly car batteries that are charged from a solar array on the roof when the car is parked, they also have a board/socket enabling them to be plugged into the mains if there has been no sun. there is an additional reasonable sized generator fitted under the bonnet to drive the
e-units and the batteries. The car has the backseat removed to enable the rear of the car to have the combination tank systems bolted into place. the tanks have "a LARGE SURFACE AREA electrode" eg a foil of types inside them (think capacitor like devices 1.5m length and 80cm width) . The motherboard with supply electronics to crack the water is on the floor in the rear. The whole thing hinges on the way the electricity is delivered to the cells.

The car creates hydrogen as it goes, the balance between tank size, electrode surface area (large), temperature, and energy pulses defines how much gas is produced.

It is NOT efficient, it does NOT accelerate like a normal car. When you can start the car from the reserve cannister of gas and drive 250km at about 75km/h ... and put the petrol money into the bank instead of the tank... I am not confused about efficiency nor worried about ferrari like performance. I have however enjoyed the scenery.

Ok, but in this case, why bother with the hydrogen at all? I know you said you are not overly concerned with the efficiency, but still... It would be a LOT more efficient to directly use electric motors rather than cracking water into hydrogen and then using a 'hydrogen motor'. Using both/either solar panels or 'plugging into the electric mains' to recharge the batteries is a good thing and makes sense. Wasting energy by electrically cracking water into hydrogen and oxygen gas, then wasting even more energy by burning the hydrogen/oxygen in a 'hydrogen motor' does not make sense.

Now don't get me wrong. I am not against research into alternative means of fueling and powering automobiles. However, efficiency is important, and I have yet to see a method that beats the efficiency of an all-electric car.

-from whence does your electricity flow ?-

All electric is ok.... but have you looked at the cost of battery replacement after 3 years. We need serious battery development work to create long life devices that are not ruined after 3 years or so of work. One comment heard here was, sell the vehicle after 2.75 years and let someone else have the problem,
- this seems to say it all really -
their problem is some of us know it and wont put up with this sort of commercial fleecing.

Auto manufacturers have looked at fuel-cell technology, but havent yet "realized" their profits. After looking into their mechanics they make the vehicle as complicated as possible and as "un-fixable" as possible (for the average joe).

Have been fiddling with the units and find as expected that higher temperature of the water makes a difference to the amount of O and H given off, the redesigned units will be high pressure, high temperature, high frequency.

Exhaust gas temp will be recycled to aid testing. We will be testing "steam" next month, and using rf input to cells to enhance generation.

Current thinking is also looking at testing the "smooth turbine", basically just a re-examination of the tesla/et-all device which claimed around 60% fuel efficiency. This will be interesting to see in comparison to internal combustion.

Make certain that you include the energy cost of heating (or boiling) the water into account when you calculate efficiency. I have the feeling that this is what happened to the person that came up with the "super efficient" technique for turning water into hydrogen and oxygen...

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BOINC WIKI

Salt Water Fuel From Radio Waves

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQMXzpTaIh4
3 mins

Cancer killing device ignites salt water.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

cool,can use it to make a healthy BBQ.

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Scorpions - Wind Of Change

Hmmm. I'd love to see the figures on how much energy is pumped into the rf generator/transmitters vs how much you get from the pretty little flame.
:)

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Pure mathematics is, in its way, the poetry of logical ideas.

Albert Einstein

http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Water_Fuel_Cell
http://waterfuelcell.org/phpBB2/
http://www.oupower.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=1
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/

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"The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible"
Arthur C. Clarke

"Science may set limits to knowledge, but should not set limits to imagination."
Bertrand Russel

Thank you, Mikael Olofsson!



.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4438732545348204352

cbc
5 min 54 sec - Jan 10, 2007
www.cbc.ca

The hydrogen car is finding its place on California's highways.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4438732545348204352

cbc
5 min 54 sec - Jan 10, 2007
www.cbc.ca

The hydrogen car is finding its place on California's highways.

I would like to note that the vehicles planned are not running on water in the fuel tank but hydrogen, and the first one planned is in about two years.

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BOINC WIKI

Unfortunate isn't it.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Unfortunate isn't it.

The two years? Yes. Having to put hydrogen in the tank? No.

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BOINC WIKI

No. That the use of water directly into you cars using internal hydrogen extractor cells hasn't been implemented. Yes.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

No. That the use of water directly into you cars using internal hydrogen extractor cells hasn't been implemented. Yes.

The use of water directly will never work because of the first and second rules of thermodynamics. It will always be an energy loss to convert to hydrogen and back to electricity. It cannot work as described.

Hydrogen fuel cells have their problems (technical and cost) but may be workable, but the hydrogen is going to come from a dispenser of some sort (fuel station of use of power grid at home to convert water to hydrogen).

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BOINC WIKI

Eeek! DHMO as fuel!
How dangerous!

What are some of the dangers associated with DHMO?
Each year, Dihydrogen Monoxide is a known causative component in many thousands of deaths and is a major contributor to millions upon millions of dollars in damage to property and the environment. Some of the known perils of Dihydrogen Monoxide are:


* Death due to accidental inhalation of DHMO, even in small quantities.
* Prolonged exposure to solid DHMO causes severe tissue damage.
* Excessive ingestion produces a number of unpleasant though not typically life-threatening side-effects.
* DHMO is a major component of acid rain.
* Gaseous DHMO can cause severe burns.
* Contributes to soil erosion.
* Leads to corrosion and oxidation of many metals.
* Contamination of electrical systems often causes short-circuits.
* Exposure decreases effectiveness of automobile brakes.
* Found in biopsies of pre-cancerous tumors and lesions.
* Given to vicious dogs involved in recent deadly attacks.
* Often associated with killer cyclones in the U.S. Midwest and elsewhere, and in hurricanes including deadly storms in Florida, New Orleans and other areas of the southeastern U.S.
* Thermal variations in DHMO are a suspected contributor to the El Nino weather effect.

:D

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Account frozen...

Gadgets That Run on Body Heat:

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/raskin/13789

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

I can remember back in the 1960's people working on some sort of water spray injection system for car engines. They were trying to re-create the phenomenon of a car engine performing more smoothly and powerfully on a damp evening because of the water vapour. Never heard any more about it.

Oil is too cheap for that to be useful.

However, that trick is used on aircraft jet engines to (temporarily) increase thrust. The most notable use is on Harrier jump jets for when they go into hover just before a vertical landing.


Any 'enthusiasts' kits for cars? Or would the engine management control be mucked up?

Regards,
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Motocycle running on water
One more link on water powered car

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"The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible"
Arthur C. Clarke

"Science may set limits to knowledge, but should not set limits to imagination."
Bertrand Russel

One of the ideas for alternative fuel was to fill your tank with water then using electrolysis separate the hydrogen and burn that with the exhaust being O2.

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What you do today you will have to live with tonight

One of the ideas for alternative fuel was to fill your tank with water then using electrolysis separate the hydrogen and burn that with the exhaust being O2.

... And how do you fuel that electroysis?...


A "Hydrogen economy" is badly flawed in that hydrogen offers a very low chemical energy density compared to currently easily (cheaply) available (fossil) fuels. Unless that is, we contrive 'desktop' nuclear fusion sometime very soon!

Regards,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

One of the ideas for alternative fuel was to fill your tank with water then using electrolysis separate the hydrogen and burn that with the exhaust being O2.

... And how do you fuel that electroysis?...


A "Hydrogen economy" is badly flawed in that hydrogen offers a very low chemical energy density compared to currently easily (cheaply) available (fossil) fuels. Unless that is, we contrive 'desktop' nuclear fusion sometime very soon!

Regards,
Martin

First by energy stored in a battery and after the vehicle is running the motor will provide the energy for the electrolysis and recharge the battery.

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What you do today you will have to live with tonight