Donations

Author	Message
Sarge Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79	Message 545700 - Posted: 13 Apr 2007, 22:18:58 UTC Question 2: Does the amount of donations one makes, if any, influence how certain crunchers/posters are treated? Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes. ID: 545700 ·

Mac Girl. Send message Joined: 15 Mar 06 Posts: 679 Credit: 15,042 RAC: 0	Message 545704 - Posted: 13 Apr 2007, 22:25:57 UTC Last modified: 13 Apr 2007, 22:27:02 UTC I don't make any donations to Seti owing to current finances. But so far I have not had any problems. As far as I know no one has taken issue with any of my posts. I don't feel I have been treated any differently. But I can only speak for myself I'm afraid. ID: 545704 ·

Michael Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 21 Aug 99 Posts: 4608 Credit: 7,427,891 RAC: 18	Message 545705 - Posted: 13 Apr 2007, 22:27:57 UTC - in response to Message 545700. Question 2: Does the amount of donations one makes, if any, influence how certain crunchers/posters are treated? As indicated on the donations page, questions about donations can be sent to donors@ssl.berkeley.edu Hope this helps :) ID: 545705 ·

Michael Roberts Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 20 Aug 99 Posts: 2588 Credit: 791,775 RAC: 0	Message 545708 - Posted: 13 Apr 2007, 22:35:28 UTC I don't see how it can. Some donations are anonymous, so there is in general no way of knowing who hasn't donated or how much someone has. Neither should there be. If you think back a bit, you will also realise that the "I've donated lots of money so you should take me seriously" ploy has been tried and failed dismally. Quite right too. ID: 545708 ·

Michael Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 21 Aug 99 Posts: 4608 Credit: 7,427,891 RAC: 18	Message 545709 - Posted: 13 Apr 2007, 22:37:07 UTC - in response to Message 545708. I don't see how it can. Some donations are anonymous, so there is in general no way of knowing who hasn't donated or how much someone has. Neither should there be. If you think back a bit, you will also realise that the "I've donated lots of money so you should take me seriously" ploy has been tried and failed dismally. Quite right too. There are those among us here who have donated a substantial amount, albeit anonymously. ID: 545709 ·

Sarge Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79	Message 545721 - Posted: 13 Apr 2007, 23:03:10 UTC - in response to Message 545708. I don't see how it can. Some donations are anonymous, so there is in general no way of knowing who hasn't donated or how much someone has. Neither should there be. If you think back a bit, you will also realise that the "I've donated lots of money so you should take me seriously" ploy has been tried and failed dismally. Quite right too. I'm not referring to relations between posters and other posters. I mean posters and ... . :-) Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes. ID: 545721 ·

Michael Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 21 Aug 99 Posts: 4608 Credit: 7,427,891 RAC: 18	Message 545725 - Posted: 13 Apr 2007, 23:09:32 UTC - in response to Message 545721. I don't see how it can. Some donations are anonymous, so there is in general no way of knowing who hasn't donated or how much someone has. Neither should there be. If you think back a bit, you will also realise that the "I've donated lots of money so you should take me seriously" ploy has been tried and failed dismally. Quite right too. I'm not referring to relations between posters and other posters. I mean posters and ... . :-) If you are referring to relations between mods and posters, well, I can't see how much you donated, all I see is if you have a green star or not.. ID: 545725 ·

Sarge Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79	Message 545729 - Posted: 13 Apr 2007, 23:15:00 UTC - in response to Message 545725. I don't see how it can. Some donations are anonymous, so there is in general no way of knowing who hasn't donated or how much someone has. Neither should there be. If you think back a bit, you will also realise that the "I've donated lots of money so you should take me seriously" ploy has been tried and failed dismally. Quite right too. I'm not referring to relations between posters and other posters. I mean posters and ... . :-) If you are referring to relations between mods and posters, well, I can't see how much you donated, all I see is if you have a green star or not.. Being a bit more clear: between admin and mods or admin and posters. Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes. ID: 545729 ·

Michael Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 21 Aug 99 Posts: 4608 Credit: 7,427,891 RAC: 18	Message 545730 - Posted: 13 Apr 2007, 23:15:33 UTC - in response to Message 545729. I don't see how it can. Some donations are anonymous, so there is in general no way of knowing who hasn't donated or how much someone has. Neither should there be. If you think back a bit, you will also realise that the "I've donated lots of money so you should take me seriously" ploy has been tried and failed dismally. Quite right too. I'm not referring to relations between posters and other posters. I mean posters and ... . :-) If you are referring to relations between mods and posters, well, I can't see how much you donated, all I see is if you have a green star or not.. Being a bit more clear: between admin and mods or admin and posters. You would have to use that email address then that I posted earlier...I cannot speak for them. ID: 545730 ·

Eric Korpela Volunteer moderator Project administrator Project developer Project scientist Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 1382 Credit: 54,506,847 RAC: 60	Message 545734 - Posted: 13 Apr 2007, 23:25:30 UTC - in response to Message 545700. Question 2: Does the amount of donations one makes, if any, influence how certain crunchers/posters are treated? In treatment on the forums, I don't think it makes a difference in how the admins treat you. I can't speak for the posters, of course. I'd like to be able to say it would have no bearing on my behavior at all, but there are cases where it does. As most everyone here who has tried to call me should tell you, if I'm in my office and you call, I'll pick up the phone. If you leave a message, I probably won't find the time to get back to you even if I want to. However, if I recognize you as a big contributor looking for tech support, I might be more likely to call back. Does that make me a bad person? Or was it the killing spree? @SETIEric@qoto.org (Mastodon) ID: 545734 ·

Sarge Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79	Message 545740 - Posted: 13 Apr 2007, 23:34:32 UTC - in response to Message 545734. Does that make me a bad person? Or was it the killing spree? Eric, thanks for the response. I am trying to think carefully before asking or saying more. In general, I am just trying to understand recent events that normally I would pay little mind. I am paying attention to it, this time, because of the statements of the few I trust and a gut-feeling, semi-analysis I have developing. Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes. ID: 545740 ·

Eric Korpela Volunteer moderator Project administrator Project developer Project scientist Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 1382 Credit: 54,506,847 RAC: 60	Message 546794 - Posted: 15 Apr 2007, 19:49:29 UTC - in response to Message 545740. Eric, thanks for the response. I am trying to think carefully before asking or saying more. In general, I am just trying to understand recent events that normally I would pay little mind. I am paying attention to it, this time, because of the statements of the few I trust and a gut-feeling, semi-analysis I have developing. I hope that last line didn't sound like I was accusing you of having an agenda. I was just supposed to be a pointless joke. If this is regarding the departure of certain moderators, donations don't have anything to do with that. I was asked (forced) to make a decision. I described the procedure I would use to make that decision and followed that procedure. Was it fair? Well, no. It's nearly impossible to make a fair decision when given a binary (either/or) decision where neither option is fair. Neither decision would was fair to the parties involved. However, I doubt that I could have come up with a fairer procedure for making the decision. I hold no animosity towards the moderators that departed, and I would probably reinstate them upon request. Departure was their option. -- Eric @SETIEric@qoto.org (Mastodon) ID: 546794 ·

Knightmare Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 16 Aug 04 Posts: 7472 Credit: 94,252 RAC: 0	Message 546798 - Posted: 15 Apr 2007, 19:56:49 UTC - in response to Message 546794. I hold no animosity towards the moderators that departed, and I would probably reinstate them upon request. Departure was their option. -- Eric Eric, I wanted you to know that I aslo harbor no ill will. As you know, I contacted you well before this last round of problems. The problems were not the sole reason behind my departure, and it's nice to know that there are no ill feelings. Respectfully Knightmare Air Cold, the blade stops; from silent stone, Death is preordained Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome ID: 546798 ·

Sarge Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79	Message 546850 - Posted: 15 Apr 2007, 22:11:27 UTC - in response to Message 546794. If this is regarding the departure of certain moderators, donations don't have anything to do with that. I was asked (forced) to make a decision. I described the procedure I would use to make that decision and followed that procedure. Thanks again for another response, Eric. So I can be even more clear, then, it's not about the recent departures but rather how the auto-mod experiment worked to begin with. Was it really random selection? Was it influenced by RACs? Was it influenced by donations? Anything along those lines. Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes. ID: 546850 ·

Eric Korpela Volunteer moderator Project administrator Project developer Project scientist Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 1382 Credit: 54,506,847 RAC: 60	Message 546988 - Posted: 16 Apr 2007, 0:50:15 UTC - in response to Message 546850. Thanks again for another response, Eric. So I can be even more clear, then, it's not about the recent departures but rather how the auto-mod experiment worked to begin with. Was it really random selection? Was it influenced by RACs? Was it influenced by donations? Anything along those lines. The automod experiment was an attempt to find people who with a vested interest in keeping the project alive and peaceful. Posting history, RAC, and whether they had ever donated were part of the formula, weighted in that order. Amount of donations and date of most recent donation were not. IIRC, the formula was something like (# of unmoderated posts) x sqrt(RAC x (1+has_donated)). I'd need to dig up the code to be sure, though. I haven't decided yet whether to choose new moderators based upon this or a similar formula or whether to offer posts based upon some other criteria. Eric @SETIEric@qoto.org (Mastodon) ID: 546988 ·

Sarge Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79	Message 546994 - Posted: 16 Apr 2007, 1:08:19 UTC - in response to Message 546988. I haven't decided yet whether to choose new moderators based upon this or a similar formula or whether to offer posts based upon some other criteria. Thanks. I think a different formula might be needed. Perhaps a consideration not only of unmoderated posts, but a ratio of moderated and unmoderated? Or, maybe something altogether different. The reason I mention this, as I am sure you know, several chosen were ones who did not get along with each other to begin with. Whether deserved or not, there were mods several posters felt they could not handle or, worse yet, mods who probably could not have gotten along with other mods. The experiment would have had a chance if some people could have reined themselves in. Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes. ID: 546994 ·

KB7RZF Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 15 Aug 99 Posts: 9549 Credit: 3,308,926 RAC: 2	Message 547014 - Posted: 16 Apr 2007, 1:46:02 UTC - in response to Message 546994. I haven't decided yet whether to choose new moderators based upon this or a similar formula or whether to offer posts based upon some other criteria. Thanks. I think a different formula might be needed. Perhaps a consideration not only of unmoderated posts, but a ratio of moderated and unmoderated? Or, maybe something altogether different. The reason I mention this, as I am sure you know, several chosen were ones who did not get along with each other to begin with. Whether deserved or not, there were mods several posters felt they could not handle or, worse yet, mods who probably could not have gotten along with other mods. The experiment would have had a chance if some people could have reined themselves in. I like your thinking. Maybe another option, would be some sort of form, (yes i know, another webpage to code, just a thought) where if a poster wanted to be concidered as a moderator, they could fill out the form. Just a thought. ID: 547014 ·

Knightmare Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 16 Aug 04 Posts: 7472 Credit: 94,252 RAC: 0	Message 547018 - Posted: 16 Apr 2007, 1:51:13 UTC When there has been a lot of animosity between certain posters, there isn't really much chance that they will magically get along when those involved are made moderators. Air Cold, the blade stops; from silent stone, Death is preordained Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome ID: 547018 ·

GalaxyIce Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 13 May 06 Posts: 8927 Credit: 1,361,057 RAC: 0	Message 547108 - Posted: 16 Apr 2007, 8:12:11 UTC - in response to Message 546988. the formula was something like (# of unmoderated posts) x sqrt(RAC x (1+has_donated)). I'd need to dig up the code to be sure, though. ... Eric That's puzzling indeed. Some moderators, and recent moderators, have a tiny RAC. Tiny. I would have though any measure of whether you were contributing to a project was RAC. Something more that "Tiny". A large credit from someone who has died or no longer chosen to contribute to this project hardly makes them the best moderator for SETI, or someone with a Tiny RAC. It's a formula that just doesn't work, does it Eric? (Human choice based on best fit for purpose might be better formula?) flam ing balloons ID: 547108 ·

Fuzzy Hollynoodles Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 9659 Credit: 251,998 RAC: 0	Message 547110 - Posted: 16 Apr 2007, 8:15:53 UTC - in response to Message 546988. Thanks again for another response, Eric. So I can be even more clear, then, it's not about the recent departures but rather how the auto-mod experiment worked to begin with. Was it really random selection? Was it influenced by RACs? Was it influenced by donations? Anything along those lines. The automod experiment was an attempt to find people who with a vested interest in keeping the project alive and peaceful. Posting history, RAC, and whether they had ever donated were part of the formula, weighted in that order. Amount of donations and date of most recent donation were not. IIRC, the formula was something like (# of unmoderated posts) x sqrt(RAC x (1+has_donated)). I'd need to dig up the code to be sure, though. I haven't decided yet whether to choose new moderators based upon this or a similar formula or whether to offer posts based upon some other criteria. Eric Hmmm... Interesting. So earlier (biased) moderators' mass deletions of certain posters posts prevented these posters for being chosen as automods. That explains a lot... "I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me ID: 547110 ·

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