Religious Thread [8] - CLOSED
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Religious Thread [8] - CLOSED
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 Qui-Gon  Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 2940 Credit: 19,199,902 RAC: 11 
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STANDARD DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of California, the SETI project (including but not limited to the SETI@home and BOINC programmers), its affiliates, or the SETI@home volunteers (including but not limited to forum members contributing processing power towards the SETI@home project). By posting in this thread you assume full responsibility for the content of your post and absolve the University of California, the SETI project, its affiliates, and the SETI@home volunteers (including but not limited to forum members) from any and all injuries including slander, defamation, libel, obscenity, indecency, and emotional or monetary damage. There will be no moderator in this thread. There is no official language in this thread. There is no obligation to post in this thread. There is no requirement to read any post in this thread except for posts which contain amendments to this disclaimer. ADDITIONAL DISCLAIMER: Religious preaching, proselytizing, or imposition of one poster's will upon another's/s' will not be tolerated. Trolling is disallowed in all forms. Offenses will be penalized as the posters find appropriate. One final thing: This thread is a continuation of [7], [6]-(inaccessable), [5], [4], [3], [2] and [1]. ID: 363746 ·  |
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Qui-Gon Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 2940 Credit: 19,199,902 RAC: 11
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Good morning all. Let's discuss religious issues. The purpose of this thread should not be conversion or preaching, but an exchange of ideas, such as the purpose of religion (anyone's view, from any philosophy). Why would one adhere to a religion, or not have anything to do with one. Is science a religion? There are lots of things to discuss, and if we try to avoid proselytizing, the subject of this thread is not intrinsically dangerous or provacative. ID: 363750 · |
Octagon  Send message Joined: 13 Jun 05 Posts: 1418 Credit: 5,250,988 RAC: 109
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Is it safe to post before Robert or Rush comes in to perform a Noodly Blessing upon the thread? :-) No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much. 
ID: 363784 · |
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Qui-Gon Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 2940 Credit: 19,199,902 RAC: 11
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There is room for silliness in this thread, noodly or otherwise, but sometimes people actually discuss (argue, complain, rant about) religious issues. ID: 363800 · |
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Octagon Send message Joined: 13 Jun 05 Posts: 1418 Credit: 5,250,988 RAC: 109
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There is room for silliness in this thread, noodly or otherwise, but sometimes people actually discuss (argue, complain, rant about) religious issues. Sorry, okay on to a more serious topic. Most of the discussions have been about monotheistic faiths and attheism/agnosticism. Does anyone have insight they'd like to share about other kinds of religious experience, such as polytheism (paganism) or pantheism or "personal spirituality"? No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.
ID: 363803 · |
Al  Send message Joined: 4 Oct 99 Posts: 5832 Credit: 401,935 RAC: 0 
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Hmmm i finde pagan gods wary interesting...what i meen is there is a diferent god for almost anything:rain,sun,earth,fish... I remember a fiew of them that were worshiped here in the balcans...hmmm wait i dont.Well ill take a look it is an interesting read. Scorpions - Wind Of Change ID: 363806 · |
Jeffrey  Send message Joined: 21 Nov 03 Posts: 4793 Credit: 26,029 RAC: 0 |
if we try to avoid proselytizing, the subject of this thread is not intrinsically dangerous or provacative. I have seen very little 'proselytizing' and very much 'berating' within these so-called religious threads... Maybe you could add that to your little list of rules... ;)  It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
ID: 363893 · |
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Qui-Gon Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 2940 Credit: 19,199,902 RAC: 11
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Sorry, okay on to a more serious topic. Most of the discussions have been about monotheistic faiths and attheism/agnosticism. Does anyone have insight they'd like to share about other kinds of religious experience, such as polytheism (paganism) or pantheism or "personal spirituality"?I know this sounds a little snobbish, but I sometimes feel that poly- and pantheism are little more than ancient attempts to explain what humans could not explain, before more scientific or analytical approachs to nature were developed. But that does not completely describe what a religion is intended to do: that is, to give a social framework of ethics or laws for the betterment of the religion's members (and to hell with non-members). That purpose, no matter how imperfectly applied, exists in all religions. As for "personal spirituality", where does one start? What motivation would one have to search for and try to achieve such a state? ID: 363924 · |
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Jeffrey Send message Joined: 21 Nov 03 Posts: 4793 Credit: 26,029 RAC: 0 |
As for "personal spirituality", where does one start? One could start by reading the Bible and the Qur'an to better understand your Creator... After all, it is He who gave us the Spirit in the first place... Unless of course, it simply evolved too... What motivation would one have to search for and try to achieve such a state? To find answers to the age old questions: 1. Where did we come from? 2. Why are we here? 3. Where are we going next? Not too mention... 4. How to achieve the promise of eternal life? Which is a good enough motivation for me... ;) It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
ID: 363958 · |
Fuzzy Hollynoodles  Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 9659 Credit: 251,998 RAC: 0 |
There is room for silliness in this thread, noodly or otherwise, but sometimes people actually discuss (argue, complain, rant about) religious issues. Ok then.  Click the pic "I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me 
ID: 364102 · |
Troy Stull  Send message Joined: 21 Jun 06 Posts: 264 Credit: 46,144 RAC: 0
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There is room for silliness in this thread, noodly or otherwise, but sometimes people actually discuss (argue, complain, rant about) religious issues. Hey I don't claim to know everything, and we seem to have a few smart folks around this place. Seems like as good a place as any to challenge and have challenged belifes.  /Central Florida Astronomical Society ID: 364154 · |
BrainSmashR  Send message Joined: 7 Apr 02 Posts: 1772 Credit: 384,573 RAC: 0
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Sorry, okay on to a more serious topic. Most of the discussions have been about monotheistic faiths and attheism/agnosticism. Does anyone have insight they'd like to share about other kinds of religious experience, such as polytheism (paganism) or pantheism or "personal spirituality"?I know this sounds a little snobbish, but I sometimes feel that poly- and pantheism are little more than ancient attempts to explain what humans could not explain, before more scientific or analytical approachs to nature were developed. But that does not completely describe what a religion is intended to do: that is, to give a social framework of ethics or laws for the betterment of the religion's members (and to hell with non-members). That purpose, no matter how imperfectly applied, exists in all religions. I have to disagree. Religions of the past serve the same purpose as they do today....a means of controlling the ignorant masses. It's not about betterment for the congregation, but rather betterment for those directly involved with the church and it's activities.   
ID: 364539 · |
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Octagon Send message Joined: 13 Jun 05 Posts: 1418 Credit: 5,250,988 RAC: 109
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Sorry, okay on to a more serious topic. Most of the discussions have been about monotheistic faiths and attheism/agnosticism. Does anyone have insight they'd like to share about other kinds of religious experience, such as polytheism (paganism) or pantheism or "personal spirituality"?I know this sounds a little snobbish, but I sometimes feel that poly- and pantheism are little more than ancient attempts to explain what humans could not explain, before more scientific or analytical approachs to nature were developed. But that does not completely describe what a religion is intended to do: that is, to give a social framework of ethics or laws for the betterment of the religion's members (and to hell with non-members). That purpose, no matter how imperfectly applied, exists in all religions. I was referring to contemporary polytheistic/pantheistic practices, although a historian's view on how these faiths performed social functions in the past would also be interesting. No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.
ID: 364613 · |
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Octagon Send message Joined: 13 Jun 05 Posts: 1418 Credit: 5,250,988 RAC: 109
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I have to disagree. In a purely anthropoligical sense, it doesn't matter if God exists or prayer actually helps the crops grow or faith helps the army win battles. What matters is that the collective morals of the people (codified into a shared faith) created an authority higher than the "king" and that this authority is used to deputize individuals who can make moral judgements that the "king" will heed because the "king" derives his justification to rule from that same authority. It was the first iteration of government power being ultimately derived from the people. The problem with this system is that the deputized individuals formed their own institutions with their own interests. Once that happened, things got really corrupt really fast. No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.
ID: 364634 · |
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Troy Stull Send message Joined: 21 Jun 06 Posts: 264 Credit: 46,144 RAC: 0
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As for "personal spirituality", where does one start? What motivation would one have to search for and try to achieve such a state? The simple awnser is you start with a foundation that was already established and build from there. Its like any other study you take what is already out there, you study, you think, you explore and you draw your own conclusions then you continue to expand and learn more and test thoughs conclusions. As far as motivation... well thats diffrent for everyone, no two people are motivated for the same reason. /Central Florida Astronomical Society ID: 364668 · |
Chuck  Send message Joined: 1 Dec 05 Posts: 511 Credit: 532,682 RAC: 0 |
Through history, there have been loads of 'unethical' and 'immoral' followers who had no other explanation of the world and it's purported 'purpose' than religion. While today, technology and more importantly, education allows for the law to curb that sort of behavior. The result? There are still lawbreakers anyway, whether you have religion or not. Religion doesn't contribute to upholding 'ethical' and 'moral' behavior - it can be replaced by the law. Since I'm 110% sure there's no god, I'm not afraid in the least to say "kiss my ass, god, you belong in hell, not me." While on the other hand, I'm not about to risk prison by knocking over a bank just because I would love to live at a Sandals resort 50 weeks out of the year. Let's just get real here, people. If you proceed on the assumption there is a god, what sense can anyone talk into you? I've given jeffrey links to books that can educate him, he seems to have obtained them, but I've heard nothing else on that. One concludes from his post below that he hasn't made much headway in reading either of them. Troy Stull has wandered right into the middle of the freeway as well, in assuming that one can resolve an issue by claiming both sides have a legitimate claim to 'truth'. Once again, (since Troy is new here) a link to show how the christian bible interprets reality: http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0402/biblefactquiz.html So, sorry, there, Troy, but religion proceeds from an assumption straight off: that there is a god. If (since) that's wrong, your whole set of assumptions are utterly incorrect. Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy. ID: 364684 · |
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Troy Stull Send message Joined: 21 Jun 06 Posts: 264 Credit: 46,144 RAC: 0
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One thing I noticed that was wrong right off that bat with that site... "The Bible is the final authority on everything" This isn't true, the bible is not the end all say all. The bible is a foundation on which you build and expand your knowlege. Look I'm not going to say that some aweful things haven't been done in the name of religon... just ask Galileo Galilei, but its been a small minority not the majority who have perpitrated these things. A bit of personal revelation that I had when I was deployed to the middel east, I thought that all muslims wanted to fly airplanes into buildings and blow up buses. Typical for a 19 year old member of the armed forces, they like you to think like that. Then when I got there I worked day in and day out with some locals there and came to relize that 99% of them are not going to scream 'Parais Alla' then blow up a shopping mall. However its also not as if some pretty messed up things haven't been done in the name of science, look at the testing the Japanese did during WWII, but that wasn't the majority of Sciencetist that was a small few. Look like I said, I've been studying Science and religon most of my life and I have yet to find one instance where one contradicts the other. I belive in faith based on reason, but faith none the less. /Central Florida Astronomical Society ID: 364695 · |
Scary Capitalist  Send message Joined: 21 May 01 Posts: 7404 Credit: 97,085 RAC: 0
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You haven't found one instance where science an religion contradict eachother, Troy? The world was created in 6 days? Worldwide flood and noah's ark with 2 of each animals? There's a ton of examples. Not to mention that the bible contradicts itself and virtually ALL religions contradict eachother whereas science corrects itself overtime when there is an APPARENT contradiction inevidence. Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data! I did NOT authorize this belly writing! 
ID: 364700 · |
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Qui-Gon Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 2940 Credit: 19,199,902 RAC: 11
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You haven't found one instance where science an religion contradict eachother, Troy?He said science vs. religion, not science vs. stories from the Bible meant to teach religion. There is a huge difference. ID: 364705 · |
BODLEY  Send message Joined: 12 Mar 02 Posts: 877 Credit: 125,351 RAC: 0 
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People adhere to religion for one of a few well defined reasons: They are insecure They love the feel of sand in their ears as they stick their heads into a dune They are incapable of logical thought They have relatively few brain cells etc etc ........... ID: 364712 · |
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