If the old Seti Classic is finished, why are my computers still downloading and processing WU's?

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If the old Seti Classic is finished, why are my computers still downloading and processing WU's?

Both Seti's (classic and Boinc) are still giving out work. Classic is scheduled to shut down for good by the end of the year. If you read the "Tech News" linked from the front page. you'll notice that Classis is no longer getting Unique WUs to work on. They're getting the Exact same ones as Boinc and it could be viewed that all classic work from now till it's demise is "redundant" or "unnecessary". In other words, Classic is no longer helping with the science of seti, and Classic users are really just racking up meaningless points.

Does this answer your question?

tony

Yes, both posts have answered my question.

I have installed and ran Bionic on 1 computer and I am confused.

I have no idea what it is doing, can't find a client to track WU's, show processing speed like Seti Spy does.

Is it faster than the old CLI, is there a CLI for Bionic?, can this be run in a RAM disk to reduce disk writes?

I would like to continue this project but I don't have hours to look through all the posts to find this information and can't seem to finding anything on the Seti/Bionic site.

I currently run the CLI on 3 computers 24/7

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I agree about time. You don't have to spend much to get the most out of Seti under Boinc. Directly above my signature is a link to the Wiki. The Wiki was created by another user by the name Paul D Buck. He also has other users help with it. It's a virtual one stop shop for answers. It's OVER 1,100 pages, but you won't need any or all of them unless you want to.

Running Seti under Boinc there are two major Parts. One is Boinc, the other is the Seti application. The Seti application is the program that actually does the crunching and the current version is 4.18. Boinc consists of two parts, the manager and the Daemon (cli). I see you have credits so I assume you're already attached. Boinc has what is called a "scheduler". Boinc handles the uploads, downloads, and makes decisions on what to run next based upon your preference settings. You set your preference setting under "your account" general preferences and "your Account" Seti preferences.

Questions about credit and pretty much any other can be found in the Wiki, but if you want personal assistance, then a user is usually around to help.

If you've attached and are crunching, then there's really nothing more you have to do, but let her run. it'll pretty much take care of itself. You may want to eventually start using and "optimized" application, or even an "optimized Boinc Client (boinc)", these will result in faster completion of wus. Boinc already has a built in caching system which you can set within you preferences.

I could type forever, but I hope I got you started.

welcome to boinc

tony

OH, you mentioned setispy, Boinc has many 3rd party apps like Boincview and Boinclogix, and many others that I've never had an urge to use, Maybe someone else can link you to them.

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Welcome to Seti BOINC

For the most part Seti BOINC takes care of a lot of what you had to run mulitple items for. So spending hours right now is not as important as when Seti first started...

Seti Boinc is doing what it supposed to do... The Stats tab will update and let you know that you are moving ahead.

Yes there are "addons" but getting Seti Boinc started is the key...
There will be some changes about the same time that Seti Classic closes. So patience... many people are working to insure that happens smoothly...

Yes, both posts have answered my question.

I have installed and ran Bionic on 1 computer and I am confused.

I have no idea what it is doing, can't find a client to track WU's, show processing speed like Seti Spy does.

Is it faster than the old CLI, is there a CLI for Bionic?, can this be run in a RAM disk to reduce disk writes?

No it is not necssarily faster than than the Seti CLI. no there is no current version that supports RAM Disks

I would like to continue this project but I don't have hours to look through all the posts to find this information and can't seem to finding anything on the Seti/Bionic site.

I currently run the CLI on 3 computers 24/7

R/

Al

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Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

They're getting the Exact same ones as Boinc and it could be viewed that all classic work from now till it's demise is "redundant" or "unnecessary". In other words, Classic is no longer helping with the science of seti, and Classic users are really just racking up meaningless points.

tony

I would say it is Boinc users that are "redundant" or "unnecessary". In other words, Boinc is not helping with the science of seti, and Boinc users are really just racking up meaningless points until Classic finally shuts down.

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I would say it is Boinc users that are "redundant" or "unnecessary". In other words, Boinc is not helping with the science of seti, and Boinc users are really just racking up meaningless points until Classic finally shuts down.

Except that Boinc is validating the results, whereas Classic has been behind in validating for years. Plus with the validating, they know the work is good, Classic just gave you a point, no matter if it was good or bad data.

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I would say it is Boinc users that are "redundant" or "unnecessary". In other words, Boinc is not helping with the science of seti, and Boinc users are really just racking up meaningless points until Classic finally shuts down.

Except that Boinc is validating the results, whereas Classic has been behind in validating for years. Plus with the validating, they know the work is good, Classic just gave you a point, no matter if it was good or bad data.

The real truth is everyone that contributes is valid on Classic or Boinc. The thing that is not valid are the ones that put down other contributers for the sake of putting down what's different. My 40,000 classic credits are just as valid as anyone else's Boinc credits.

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I would say it is Boinc users that are "redundant" or "unnecessary". In other words, Boinc is not helping with the science of seti, and Boinc users are really just racking up meaningless points until Classic finally shuts down.

Except that Boinc is validating the results, whereas Classic has been behind in validating for years. Plus with the validating, they know the work is good, Classic just gave you a point, no matter if it was good or bad data.

The real truth is everyone that contributes is valid on Classic or Boinc. The thing that is not valid are the ones that put down other contributers for the sake of putting down what's different. My 40,000 classic credits are just as valid as anyone else's Boinc credits.

The real truth is: when the enhanced SETI app. (the one that takes much longer to do a single work unit) goes on-line, with a more detailed (more sensitive) search, all of the old work units are new again.

... regardless of who crunched them or where.

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I would say it is Boinc users that are "redundant" or "unnecessary". In other words, Boinc is not helping with the science of seti, and Boinc users are really just racking up meaningless points until Classic finally shuts down.

Except that Boinc is validating the results, whereas Classic has been behind in validating for years. Plus with the validating, they know the work is good, Classic just gave you a point, no matter if it was good or bad data.

The real truth is everyone that contributes is valid on Classic or Boinc. The thing that is not valid are the ones that put down other contributers for the sake of putting down what's different. My 40,000 classic credits are just as valid as anyone else's Boinc credits.

The real truth is: when the enhanced SETI app. (the one that takes much longer to do a single work unit) goes on-line, with a more detailed (more sensitive) search, all of the old work units are new again.

... regardless of who crunched them or where.

I can agree with that to the point that that in the future you will be correct.

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I would say it is Boinc users that are "redundant" or "unnecessary". In other words, Boinc is not helping with the science of seti, and Boinc users are really just racking up meaningless points until Classic finally shuts down.

Reading between the lines, my hunch is that the current units being crunched by classic will never be added to the science database after the merge as reported on the news page 14 Nov. Therefore it is the classic units that are redundant.

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I would say it is Boinc users that are "redundant" or "unnecessary". In other words, Boinc is not helping with the science of seti, and Boinc users are really just racking up meaningless points until Classic finally shuts down.

I thought of that Dave and it's a valid point. However, after December 15th (or there abouts), only boinc will be doing valid work.

So, This is what we really face. Either Classic users can move to boinc and contribute help with the developement of science and we can get more done,

OR

Boinc users should just stop crunching until Classic closes. This will result in less finished work.

Let's see twice the work, Or half the work??? I think you see my point.


[edit]Dave, this is not directed at you, but at some of the Classic users I've read posts from on the classic message boards.

I can just see some of the "die hard" classic users being like the last man on the HMS Titanic, clutching the rail of the bow, and muttering "it can't sink, it can't sink, it can't sink". I mean, sheesh, give up the ghost, read the writing on the wall, it's over, it's done. This is supposed to be about the betterment of science, not some emotional support. move on. Some of them are acting like someone just stole their favorite dog or hunting rifle.

Remember, I've been a classic user longer than I've been a Boinc user, so I'm not "anti classic", I just read that writing on the wall a bit earlier than some. I'm also not picking on the vast majority of classic users, just some of the "die hards" who refuse to even see what's happening in front of their eyes.

I'm talking about the ones who on December 16th will be posting messages "oh seti,...come back.....I can't believe your really done....Can't we just get one more wu??? pretty please....

Kinda of like a junky in need of a fix.

This is supposed to be about Seti (the science), not about the user. These die hards are making it personal, making it about "themselves" not Seti, Not science.

The real truth is: when the enhanced SETI app. (the one that takes much longer to do a single work unit) goes on-line, with a more detailed (more sensitive) search, all of the old work units are new again.

... regardless of who crunched them or where.

Just for clarification...

If I understand your post correctly, we are going to re-crunch every workunit using the new science app. Every workunit since the beginning. All of them... from 1999 on. Is this correct?

If that is the case, doesn't it pretty much render this whole Classic vs. BOINC science drama rather pointless?

Dig

In other words, Classic is no longer helping with the science of seti, and Classic users are really just racking up meaningless points.

I see your point Tony, and it's valid enough... I'm just trying to figure out why you feel this is an issue. Assuming someone actually tells them that the science is redundant at this point, they will make either of two choices:

1) They will switch over to BOINC immediately to expedite their future contributions to SETI science. Or...

2) They will decide to ride the Classic wave out to the end simply because that is what they wish to do. They have been crunching on Classic for 6+ years in many cases, and contributed to the science for every bit of that until now. Perhaps they are close to realizing a goal that they want to complete, or perhaps they're just plain enjoying themselves and the competition with their buddies. It's no different than if they wanted to use their computer resources for gaming.

It's ONE month. Why create more drama where it's not needed?

Let them have their fun.

If I understand your post correctly, we are going to re-crunch every workunit using the new science app. Every workunit since the beginning. All of them... from 1999 on. Is this correct?

This has been bothering me quite a bit as well. I don't claim to "know" the definitive answer, but I've had that thought in my mind while listening to the various discussions, so I _think_ I can answer it. If Matt or someone wants to step in and verify or correct this, please do!

Currently the work units are being produced fast enough to keep _either_ BOINC or Classic busy with "new work", and indeed _some_ of the time, to keep BOTH busy with "new work". When Classic closes, the jump in BOINC power would make it such that the project would run out of work regularly, with the current application.

The enhanced app takes enough time to go through a WU that it is anticipated there will be plenty of "new work" even if every Classic user comes only to SETI, at least at first. Obviously as computers get faster, and new users come in, the CPU power grows every year; at some point, there will _not_ be enough "new work". At THAT point, assuming no other task is available, such as Astropulse or other telescopes, or whatever, I would imagine that some of the old tapes would be re-split and sent out again.

This isn't a total waste of work, however. First off, the tapes that were "noisy" and gave nothing useful, whether on Classic or BOINC, would hardly be the first choice to send out again to Enhanced. Second, while it's true the same tests for a signal that have already been run would be re-run, that is a "waste" of only about 1/10 of the time for the total result. And it _may_ be possible by that point to set a "flag" in the WU somewhere that says "has already been processed by earlier app, you can skip the basic stuff". Then your 30GHz Pentium 8 would only take 20 minutes to crunch it instead of 22...

I would also hope that if there have been some results that were "interesting", that THOSE results would be sent out again to the enhanced app SOON! I'd _rather_ re-crunch some of the "candidates" that have been identified, with better accuracy, to see if there is really something there, than crunch some random new tape!

There are still tapes in Matt's stack that are un-crunched that are a year or three old, so I hope everyone doesn't scream "waste of crunching" the first time a 2004 WU comes along to their enhanced app... but I'll be screaming just as loud if they _do_ for some reason re-send every tape, without some way to prevent redoing the same old tests on it. That would make the last several years a total waste of time. DIFFERENT tests on the same input data wouldn't bother me.

In other words, Classic is no longer helping with the science of seti, and Classic users are really just racking up meaningless points.

Does this answer your question?

tony

Aren't all "points" (credits) just as meaningless?

Just for clarification...

If I understand your post correctly, we are going to re-crunch every workunit using the new science app. Every workunit since the beginning. All of them... from 1999 on. Is this correct?

The box of tapes that haven't been split yet should be enough for 1-2 years running Seti_Enhanced, so by the time it's exhausted it's a good chance the multi-beam-recorder is installed at Arecibo and there's little point to re-split anything.

The real truth is: when the enhanced SETI app. (the one that takes much longer to do a single work unit) goes on-line, with a more detailed (more sensitive) search, all of the old work units are new again.

... regardless of who crunched them or where.

Just for clarification...

If I understand your post correctly, we are going to re-crunch every workunit using the new science app. Every workunit since the beginning. All of them... from 1999 on. Is this correct?

If that is the case, doesn't it pretty much render this whole Classic vs. BOINC science drama rather pointless?

Dig

The Drama which runs rampant here has always been pointless.

The discussion, those can be fairly interesting.

I don't know any more than anyone else how far back we'll go, but I suspect that if we manage to stay ahead of the incoming data stream (especially as computers go faster) that it makes sense to re-crunch, all the way back to 1999.

But, I'm guessing. Your mileage will vary.

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Just for clarification...

If I understand your post correctly, we are going to re-crunch every workunit using the new science app. Every workunit since the beginning. All of them... from 1999 on. Is this correct?

The box of tapes that haven't been split yet should be enough for 1-2 years running Seti_Enhanced, so by the time it's exhausted it's a good chance the multi-beam-recorder is installed at Arecibo and there's little point to re-split anything.

Isn't likely that weak signals that the enhanced could find might be lurking in any WU going back to the beginning?

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Isn't likely that weak signals that the enhanced could find might be lurking in any WU going back to the beginning?

Ok, I'll chime in. I've not read or interpreted anything Matt has said at any time in the past to suggest that they WILL be redoing old WUs (WUs/results that have already been crunched). I can see where it might be good should we run low on work in the future, but I don't see that opportunity raising its' head any time soon. I can see where running tapes that showed high instances of noise, and were placed in the "Box" might be a good thing though.