Posts by ML1

1) Message boards : Number crunching : My 2990WX (Message 1970860)
Posted 1 day ago by Profile ML1
Post:
Not sure I should post this here... :-P


Building a Compact Monster PC: Threadripper Meets Micro-ATX and Custom Liquid Cooling

... we set out to build a powerful and quiet desktop beast that lives in a relatively svelte form factor while still packing ... high-end performance...


Does the "w" in "threadripper-2990wx" mean "water"?...

Strictly for comparison :-)


Enjoy,

Happy cool fast crunchin',!
Martin
2) Message boards : Number crunching : Windows 10 - Yea or Nay? (Message 1970859)
Posted 1 day ago by Profile ML1
Post:
Well, well, well...

Who would believe it?...

Has anyone had the temerity to inform Management and Marketing and the Bean Counters and blind Spreadsheet Wielders?...


We asked, you answered: The truth about software reliability

It's not just about quality

Research results Whether it's systems-level platforms and tools or full-blown business applications, you want the software your organisation depends on to run reliably and predictably. Our recent Reg survey, however, confirmed what most probably knew from experience, or could guess from press headlines – that software-related failures are far from uncommon.

Unsurprisingly, major system failures and/or incidents leading to loss of data were top of the list when it came to the potential for damage and disruption. What also came through, though, was how much people hate it when a piece of software inflicts a constant stream of minor issues...



There is some very good comment in that article.

So how have we got some parts of the IT world so very very badly wrong for the users and the IT support people alike?


IT is what we allow it to be...
Martin
3) Message boards : Number crunching : Help for a linux newby (Message 1970854)
Posted 1 day ago by Profile ML1
Post:
The Ubuntu forums have your answer:

Setting to High Performance

There's two very good solutions given there:

* One using commands (as root or "sudo") on the commandline to directly tweak the running kernel;
* Or better, do the install of "indicator-cpufreq" to tweak however you like from the desktop notifications panel.


Yes I had already see that 3 year old post, when I tried the command it says "performance powersave not found."

When I installed the "incicator-cpufreq" it crashed within a minute.

I do not think anything I have found applies to Ubuntu 10.04.1 LTS

It really isn't that important, I wasn't expecting much from Linux, it is just a stopgap till the new year when I will have the time...

Mmmm... Quite odd.

I'm assuming you really mean 18.04.1 LTS? (The 10.04 is from rather long ago...)


If you keep to the normal repositories, then things should just simply work...

From this article "Tips to Speed up Ubuntu", there is:

sudo apt-get install indicator-cpufreq


Restart your computer and supposedly you get a nice graphical display on your Gnome desktop to see and set the cpu frequency...

There's lots more in "Set CPU governor to performance in 18.04" that runs through multiple methods and how to override the Ubuntu defaults automatically after boot up. (And then there will be some magical systemd way of doing things but that's for others to explore!)


Hope you get better luck on the 'morrow!

Happy crunchin',
Martin
4) Message boards : Number crunching : Help for a linux newby (Message 1970853)
Posted 1 day ago by Profile ML1
Post:
Ah - the tortoise rides again. ;-)

Would be interesting to do some profiling under Linux vs Windows to see from where exactly such noticeable slow down comes...

By 'eck! That's some blast from the past that was long forgotten!! :-)

From a quick giggle: So that old thread is yet another example of the unexpectedness of Boinc running at a low (nice) priority and 'powersave' kicking in to reduce the CPU clock frequency to save power.

All very good for laptops to reduce unneeded heating and to save battery power.

Not so good if you're wanting maximum performance for Boinc!

And as was noted back then as is the case now, there is no performance loss or 'slowdown' when the Linux 'performance' CPU governor is used/enabled. (And it is now Linux all the way for the top machines ;-) )

(Whoosh!... So I was on the old Mandriva distro + KDE desktop back then! See the old power instructions for KDE...)


Moving forwards a decade and at the moment I'm on a custom Gentoo distro + Xfce desktop. Simply, the Boinc systems here have "Performance" set in the kernel as the default governor for CPU frequency. Never needed to look or check there since...


Happy fast crunchin',
Martin
5) Message boards : Number crunching : Help for a linux newby (Message 1970823)
Posted 1 day ago by Profile ML1
Post:
Yes the

watch -n1 "cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep \"^[c]pu MHz\""

Shows three CPU cores at around 2.5 Ghz which is correct and one CPU core fluctuating as I would expect.

... If Ubuntu slows down my CPU well until I have the time...

The Ubuntu forums have your answer:

Setting to High Performance

There's two very good solutions given there:

    * One using commands (as root or "sudo") on the commandline to directly tweak the running kernel;
    * Or better, do the install of "indicator-cpufreq" to tweak however you like from the desktop notifications panel.



Note that s@h tries to be kindly and runs at minimum disturbance which also means by default for most Linux distros, running at minimum power...

(Reminds me, we really need an option in Boinc for the user to easily be able to set the run priority of Boinc...)


Happy cool crunchin',
Martin

6) Message boards : Number crunching : My 2990WX (Message 1970821)
Posted 1 day ago by Profile ML1
Post:
Thanks for a good summary.


If you're into tweaking a Linux kernel, then you could try these two kernel configs:

  │ CONFIG_NUMA:
  │
  │ Enable NUMA (Non Uniform Memory Access) support. 
  │
  │ The kernel will try to allocate memory used by a CPU on the
  │ local memory controller of the CPU and add some more
  │ NUMA awareness to the kernel.
  │
  │ For 64-bit this is recommended if the system is Intel Core i7
  │ (or later), AMD Opteron, or EM64T NUMA.

  │ Symbol: NUMA [=n]
  │ Type  : bool
  │ Prompt: Numa Memory Allocation and Scheduler Support
  │   Location:
  │     -> Processor type and features
  │   Defined at arch/x86/Kconfig:1515
  │   Depends on: SMP [=y] && (X86_64 [=y] || X86_32 [=n] && HIGHMEM64G [=n] && X86_BIGSMP [=n])


and, I don't know if s@h (or the kernel opportunistically for an app) would take advantage of this:

  │ CONFIG_KSM:
  │
  │ Enable Kernel Samepage Merging: KSM periodically scans those areas
  │ of an application's address space that an app has advised may be
  │ mergeable.  When it finds pages of identical content, it replaces
  │ the many instances by a single page with that content, so
  │ saving memory until one or another app needs to modify the content. 
  │ Recommended for use with KVM, or with other duplicative applications.
  │ See Documentation/vm/ksm.rst for more information: KSM is inactive
  │ until a program has madvised that an area is MADV_MERGEABLE, and
  │ root has set /sys/kernel/mm/ksm/run to 1 (if CONFIG_SYSFS is set).
  │
  │ Symbol: KSM [=n]
  │ Type  : bool
  │ Prompt: Enable KSM for page merging
  │   Location:
  │     -> Memory Management options
  │   Defined at mm/Kconfig:297
  │   Depends on: MMU [=y]



That would be very cool if that could save you a few repeated MBytes of CPU cache for the same one s@h app running multiple times to then allow more memory bandwidth for the compute data...


Happy fast crunchin',
Martin
7) Message boards : Number crunching : Help for a linux newby (Message 1970555)
Posted 3 days ago by Profile ML1
Post:
Just a thought... Are you running with power saving enabled?...

To run s@h at full speed, you need to set the desktop/system power settings to run using 'performance' mode.


Happy fast crunchin'
Martin
8) Message boards : Number crunching : Windows 10 - Yea or Nay? (Message 1970498)
Posted 3 days ago by Profile ML1
Post:
... There's no immediate alternative that's as good and has universal driver/hardware/software support...

Do not underestimate the voodoo of Marketing...

There are always good alternatives... ;-)


IT is what we make it...
Martin

See: An overview of today's top distributions
9) Message boards : Number crunching : Windows 10 - Yea or Nay? (Message 1970488)
Posted 3 days ago by Profile ML1
Post:
Further thoughts for an unbelievable few months for this thread to round off this year...


How can any company survive such ongoing tripe?

How can the users not be revolting/revolted?




IT really is what we make it...
Martin
10) Message boards : Number crunching : Windows 10 - Yea or Nay? (Message 1970487)
Posted 3 days ago by Profile ML1
Post:
Would you believe IT...


It's December of 2018 and, to hell with it, just patch your stuff

Windows, Office, Acrobat, SAP... you know the deal...

... combining to patch more than 140 CVE-listed security flaws between them...

... The December patch bundle from Microsoft addresses a total of 39 vulnerabilities, including one that is publicly known and another that is being targeted in the wild...



Oh to be oh so vulnerable!

Isn't that something that teenagers quickly grow out of?...


IT is whatever it is?... Can you imagine?!

IT really is what we allow it to be...
Martin
11) Message boards : Number crunching : Help for a linux newby (Message 1970476)
Posted 3 days ago by Profile ML1
Post:
... See that it is an AMD APU. Are you trying to crunch on the builtin graphics core along with processing on the cpu? That never works well. ...

Just to add that the APU will steal memory bandwidth away from the CPU and so you can expect that to slow down any CPU tasks for s@h...

For a giggle, is it worth dedicating a discrete graphics card to the s@h crunching and use the APU only for your desktop? Or go headless?

An interesting question is whether you get more WUs running the CPU without any APU work or whether running the APU (with the slower CPU WUs) gives an overall boost?


Happy fast crunchin',
Martin
12) Message boards : Number crunching : GPU FLOPS: Theory vs Reality (Message 1970346)
Posted 4 days ago by Profile ML1
Post:
So the special app produces just as valid "science" as any stock application.

Just to add:

The "special apps" or "optimized apps" are just that: Optimized.

They give the same results as far as is possible by making more efficient use of the hardware. An easy example is in how the new code takes advantage of more recent CPU features and for utilizing the compute features of GPUs.

(And to do that, there's been some spectacular work done for the maths and testing...)


Happy fast crunchin',
Martin
13) Message boards : Number crunching : My 2990WX (Message 1970315)
Posted 4 days ago by Profile ML1
Post:
I am still looking for the "best" sweet spot but it appears to probably be near 30 cores.

Unless the NUMA scheduling works to give some advantage, then you might see the best results are with disabling the SMT to run natively one thread per core with minimum overhead/latency...?

I'm guessing that running non-SMT will also make best use of all of the CPU cache for a speedup also.


Good sleuthing!

Happy cool fast crunchin',
Martin


For my bios, NUMA appears to be turned on by default. I think I tried a short run with UMA on CL16 ram that seemed to show it was slower. But I also think I was running 40 cores.

So another experiment could be SMT turned off (so now max is 32 threads/cores) and UMA turned on. On the grounds of theory, I would always assume UMA would be slower. If the test load is still 26 threads, then a whole lot more of the processing is being done on non-direct memory access cpus which should slow things down. When you add UMA which means even the direct access cpus are going to be accessing memory in a slower way, it "oughta" be slower.

Sigh, yet another test :)

Hey! One change at a time! ;-)

So... What is actually being done to what effect with the BIOS NUMA/UMA control?

If your system really is NUMA-aware, then my guess is that the combination of no-SMT + NUMA should give the lowest latencies and maximise the best use of CPU cache...

But that's just a guess upon reality... ;-)


Happy cool crunchin',
Martin
14) Message boards : Number crunching : My 2990WX (Message 1970291)
Posted 4 days ago by Profile ML1
Post:
I am still looking for the "best" sweet spot but it appears to probably be near 30 cores.

Unless the NUMA scheduling works to give some advantage, then you might see the best results are with disabling the SMT to run natively one thread per core with minimum overhead/latency...?

I'm guessing that running non-SMT will also make best use of all of the CPU cache for a speedup also.


Good sleuthing!

Happy cool fast crunchin',
Martin
15) Message boards : Number crunching : Windows 10 - Yea or Nay? (Message 1970233)
Posted 5 days ago by Profile ML1
Post:
... Windows 10 can carry on slurping even when you're sure you yelled STOP!

All your activity are belong to us

... In what is likely to be more cock-up than conspiracy, it appears that Microsoft is continuing to collect data on recent user activities even when the user has explicitly said NO...

... Deliberate slurpage, or a case of poor QA and one team not talking to the other aside, it isn't a great look for Microsoft...

... Microsoft got in touch to insist it is committed to privacy and transparency, but admitted there is indeed a bit of naming problem ... Marisa Rogers, Privacy Officer at the software giant, told us: "We are working to address this naming issue in a future update." The slurpage collection is of course for your benefit and Rogers added that users have "controls to manage your data."...


...

From that article, the magic names to invoke are:

As for turning the thing off, Microsoft confirmed that, yes, you have to go to two places to actually stop your Activity History being shared with Redmond:
1. Under Settings->Privacy->Activity history: ensure the setting "Let Windows sync my activities from this PC to the cloud" is not checked

2. Under Settings->Privacy->Diagnostics & feedback: ensure Diagnostic data is set to Basic


Phew! Is that clear?

Can you imagine that stops Microsoft sucking up your private and personal data? Or worse?

What can you believe?!


IT is what we make it...
Martin
16) Message boards : Number crunching : Windows 10 - Yea or Nay? (Message 1970232)
Posted 5 days ago by Profile ML1
Post:
Never attribute to Malice that which can be explained by Incompetence and Laziness.

... And Marketing and Greed and (greedy cost cutting for a false cheapness and...) the users be damned?...


IT is what we choose it to be...
Martin
17) Message boards : Number crunching : Windows 10 - Yea or Nay? (Message 1970230)
Posted 5 days ago by Profile ML1
Post:
We have one Win 10 system. The rest are Win 7.

All I can say about Win 10 is ___ and ___ and ___ and ___.

Well, just fill-in the curses.

May your PCs live in "Interesting Times"?

(Sorry, couldn't resist! :-P )

IT is what we suffer from who we choose to suffer?...


IT can be what we make it...
Martin
18) Message boards : Number crunching : My 2990WX (Message 1970210)
Posted 5 days ago by Profile ML1
Post:
Please excuse me if I'm reading you wrong:

Don't get too hung up on the completion times for individual WUs? The significant factor is what total throughput is achieved for an aggregate of WUs...


Typically, using HT/SMT will slow down individual tasks, but can give a small overall speedup for multiple tasks interleaving their execution across the CPU resources...

Personal experience suggests a maximum speedup with Intel HT of about +30% over multiple tasks (throughput of 130%) over that of running non-HT (throughput a nominal 100%). However, if the CPU cache becomes overloaded/poisoned, or if there is contention for a CPU resource, then you can see some drastic slowdowns in trying to use HT!


I've not acquired any recent hardware to test comparable effects for AMD.


Good sleuthing!

Happy cool crunchin',
Martin

"HT" (Intel "Hyper Threading") is Intel's Marketing jargon for "SMT" (Simultaneous Multi-Threading) as is now utilised by AMD for their Zen CPUs: where a single physical CPU core is shared (multiplexed) between two CPU tasks.
19) Message boards : Number crunching : My 2990WX (Message 1970197)
Posted 5 days ago by Profile ML1
Post:
This article puts some numbers on the reason for the massive ballooning in processing time when I run 56-60 cores of Seti processing.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3298859/components-processors/how-memory-bandwidth-is-killing-amds-32-core-threadripper-performance.html

The available memory bandwidth goes from about 5 GB for 8/16 cores to around 2 GB for 32 cores.

This makes it sound like the "sweet spot" is going to be 26 threads with SMT running. ...

That's a beautiful article, thanks for that!

Those charts very clearly show the effect of hitting the maximum bandwidth for the RAM, and the downward tail-off shows the worsening effect of 'poisoning' the cache with too many cache misses due to working through too much different data too quickly.


If you have enough physical cores, you should see better results by simply turning the SMT feature off!

Otherwise... Do the SETI tasks become staggered to balance the RAM IO capacity? Or does everything just badly pile up in a log-jam just like a congested motorway?


Happy cool fast crunchin'!
Martin
20) Message boards : Number crunching : Windows 10 - Yea or Nay? (Message 1970159)
Posted 5 days ago by Profile ML1
Post:
Latest news, read all about it!
https://www.howtogeek.com/fyi/windows-10-sends-your-activity-history-to-microsoft-even-if-you-tell-it-not-to/

Windows 10 collects an “Activity History” of applications you launch on your PC and sends it to Microsoft. Even if you disable or clear this, Microsoft’s Privacy Dashboard still shows an “Activity History” of applications you’ve launched on your PCs.

Yep... The Register have picked up on that:


Windows 10 can carry on slurping even when you're sure you yelled STOP!

All your activity are belong to us

... In what is likely to be more cock-up than conspiracy, it appears that Microsoft is continuing to collect data on recent user activities even when the user has explicitly said NO...

... Deliberate slurpage, or a case of poor QA and one team not talking to the other aside, it isn't a great look for Microsoft...

... Microsoft got in touch to insist it is committed to privacy and transparency, but admitted there is indeed a bit of naming problem ... Marisa Rogers, Privacy Officer at the software giant, told us: "We are working to address this naming issue in a future update." The slurpage collection is of course for your benefit and Rogers added that users have "controls to manage your data."...



Well! I be damned!! Darn and drat and double drat 'n' all that...!

So... Is this an example of:

    * Malevolence?
    * Incompetence?
    * Dumb uncontrolled uncoordinated shoddiness?
    * Incoherent unmaintainability?
    * Or something else??



What can you believe?!


IT is what we make it...
Martin



Next 20


 
©2018 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.