I see a lot of Bitcoin miners trying to offload their now useless mining platforms.

Does anyone have any experience with 20 GPU "EX" miners being useful for SETI?

I see some of them have an ASUS 20 GPU (USB 3.0) port MOBO with 20 various flavors of GPU's.
Can a one CPU system run BOINC and make good use of this hardware for crunching?
If not, why not? Is there something specific about Bitcoin mining that makes those systems useless for BOINC and SETI?

If they are useful, can multiple threads be run on each GPU as outlined by Tom Miller here? https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=83192

Thanks!

I see a lot of Bitcoin miners trying to offload their now useless mining platforms.

Does anyone have any experience with 20 GPU "EX" miners being useful for SETI?

I see some of them have an ASUS 20 GPU (USB 3.0) port MOBO with 20 various flavors of GPU's.
Can a one CPU system run BOINC and make good use of this hardware for crunching?
If not, why not? Is there something specific about Bitcoin mining that makes those systems useless for BOINC and SETI?

If they are useful, can multiple threads be run on each GPU as outlined by Tom Miller here? https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=83192

Thanks!

Ok, now I have a context. Please post my PM response to you on this thread.

Mark has a VERY high end gpu card. It should run 3 tasks handily.

Several of us have been discussing the question about could you re-purpose Bitcoin miners to run Seti.

The consensus seems to be for SETI and many other non-gpu oriented projects under BOINC the answer should be yes. There are some projects that use the PCI bus heavily and these projects probably will not run well under BOINC.

I am not aware of any of the projects tasks requiring coordination between different gpus so most should work fine.

The specific answer to a mining rig depends on exactly which gpus they have and how big a CPU is running them.

If the Mining Rig is tricked out with very high end gpus (like Gtx 1080, 1080Ti etc) then those cards, in theory, can run 3 GPU tasks at the same time. I have almost no experience with AMD/Ati cards. Some may be able to run 2 or maybe even 3 tasks in parallel.

What is not clear is how exactly to go about setting up a 14 GPU mining rig with say a 2 core Celeron for the GPU. In general, the documentation calls for 1 CPU core per GPU task (which usually means per card at the lower level).

You don't have to do that though. Its is supposed to "run slower" if you don't dedicate 1 core per GPU task. But if you find yourself with excellent production while not dedicating a core per GPU task, then who is to doubt?

I think the commonest sockets on the Mining rigs will support 4/6/8 core cpus and you might need at least a 4 core to push things along fast enough. But I have seen 2 core obsolete cpus pushing gtx 1080Ti's to very high levels of production on non-mining rigs.

If you can lay hands on a complete mining rig we will be fascinated to discuss with you the issues with trying to set it up for Boinc/Seti.

One of the issues is how to deal with some gpus running 3 tasks and others running 1 task. I suspect that will require some work using a more complicated file called "app_info.xml" but until we have particulars from you we won't know.

The other thing I have heard is you will be using non-standard gpu drivers on at least the AMD/ATI side of the system. Apparently the "stock" Nvidia and AMD drivers have a hard limit of 8 gpus / system. That means a hard limit of 16 gpus. Yet these Miners are running 19 gpus? So there has to be some non-standard video drivers.

Tom

ps. All this assumes Windows 7 to Windows 10. Once you have a working rig we can take up the discussion of pushing your production even faster using Linux/CUDA9.x software.

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A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association).

I see a lot of Bitcoin miners trying to offload their now useless mining platforms.

Does anyone have any experience with 20 GPU "EX" miners being useful for SETI?

I see some of them have an ASUS 20 GPU (USB 3.0) port MOBO with 20 various flavors of GPU's.
Can a one CPU system run BOINC and make good use of this hardware for crunching?
If not, why not? Is there something specific about Bitcoin mining that makes those systems useless for BOINC and SETI?

If they are useful, can multiple threads be run on each GPU as outlined by Tom Miller here? https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=83192

Thanks!

In theory "Yes, they should work", but there may be a number of constraints to how well they work.
Things to consider (stater list, there are probably more):
Operating System
BIOS
GPU type(s)
CPU type and number
CPU RAM
Intended application(s)

---

Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

The other thing I have heard is you will be using non-standard gpu drivers on at least the AMD/ATI side of the system. Apparently the "stock" Nvidia and AMD drivers have a hard limit of 8 gpus / system. That means a hard limit of 16 gpus. Yet these Miners are running 19 gpus? So there has to be some non-standard video drivers.

This information was found in a Miners Rig review. It has been called into question. But other information was offered including possible Bio's limits and OS (not driver) limits.

I remember the ASUS announcement made a big deal about a "Mining Mode" in the Bios. So that may be where the difference is.

There are expansion cards for sale that will take a video card slot and drive 4 video cards via riser cable/other hardware. In theory on your basic 2 Long PCe x3 and 1 short slot motherboard you could setup a 12 gpu Rig. But I don't know how the Bios or OS would "feel" about it :)

Tom

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A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association).

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l2632.R3.TR12.TRC2.A0.H2.Xmining+mother.TRS0&_nkw=mining+motherboard&_sacat=179197

Just a few of the available new hardware for Mining :)

---

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association).

While those motherboards look attractive they may not be as good as they first look when thinking about deploying them for SETI crunching. Most of the ones you have listed are Intel LGA1151 socket chipsets, thus are limited to some older processors, generally with low core/thread counts, and the one I looked at had very a restrictive memory capability. As has been identified on quite a number of occasions the current crop of SETI applications don't run well unless they have one core per GPU task (and in my experience I would say one "real" core rather than one thread - which means turning hyper-threading OFF).

Also, I would be very wary of buying "unbranded" motherboards. Mostly down to technical support and warranty support (lack thereof).
One would have to add to the $150 for the motherboard another few hundred for a CPU, and another couple of hundred for the ram, then PSU, a (small) disk, several GPUs (given that the "biggest" CPU currently available for this socket appears to be a six-core device that puts a limit of 6 GPUs - they don't say if it's a "v3" or lower socket, "v3" would be nice as it opens the door for Xeon E5 processors with much higher core counts) of the same type (personally I would make sure I had the same type and manufacturer as this does tend to make configuration and management a little easier).
Will the motherboard support Linux (which gives access to the real "bleeding edge" GPU applications?

Most certainly a case of "buyer beware"!

---

Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Most certainly a case of "buyer beware"!

Right! I have seen Asus branded MB's that I believe are legitimate.

The used Mining Rigs I have been looking at on eBay seem to have a Celeron 2 core (HT?). I expect that after trying them out, a cpu upgrade would be in order. I suspect the memory will be sufficient if it is at least 8 GB.

What is not clear is if the "Mining Mode" in the Bios, which apparently lets you boot high #'s of gpu's easily, will play nicely with Boinc/Seti.

What is also not clear is if the "EtherumOS"(sp) that is mentioned is a rebranded Linux that has enough access to install Boinc/Seti and/or Cuda90+ on it.

Tom

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A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association).

I too have seen those motherboards, or at lest others from Asus. The 19 GPU version looks tasty, but has some limitations in that there are only a few tested mixes of nVidia and AMD GPU, with a maximum of 8 nVidia, the rest being AMD, with a statement that "other combinations may be possible". That looks like a BIOS limitation.

BIOS Mining Mode - good question, may just be sales spout for a high GPU capable BIOS.

The OS you quote is indeed a hacked version of Linux, designed for mining using specific sets of hardware and software, so may be cludged when it comes to other applications like BOINC and SETI. It may be possible to run a "standard" Linux like Ubuntu or Mint on it. Interestingly enough on the Asus website they list Windows 10 as being the preferred OS with no mention of any Linux (which is true of most of their motherboards, but I know Mint runs well on at least three of their's, so this may MS pressure...)

A 2-core Celeron processor is a pretty feeble affair, and would certainly struggle to feed more than a couple of high-end AMD or almost any nVidia GPU running either SoG or the CUDA special apps, and Celeron do not have hyper-threading, so two cores it is. That certainly sounds like a redundant mining set-up asmost GPU mining doesn't need much in the way of CPU support.

There was someone a few months ago who was asking about high GPU count ex-mining systems, I think he tried one and found it far less simple than he expected and vanished from the scene - I can''t recall his user name, or even the thread he appeared in.

---

Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Okay, Not being filthy rich, I cant go in for the top of the line GPU's like some are using.
I had no idea you can spend $10K on one of those! (Cough, choke, puke)
Who spends $10K on a video card?

Anyhow...

I have gone ahead and purchased a new ASUS B250 mining MOBO and a Core i7-7700K (8 threads @ 4.2GHz) (One thread per GPU?)
The MOBO supports Max. 32GB, DDR4 2400 and I have two sticks of Viper Elite 4GB for a total of 8GB to start.

Assumption #1 SETI doesnt seem to use that much RAM on my other systems but they are core/thread based right now.
How much RAM can Seti use / need? Is it on a per thread basis or is it known how much RAM per work unit?

I'm going in for the 8 GPU system using the NVIDIA Quadro 4000 BECAUSE, they are only $50 each on eCrap.

I bought an "8 GPU rack" today but honestly, I could hang 20 thin GPU's on this thing. Its made for those ultra FAT GPU's with mega heatsinks but as I said, this is all a cheap experiment by the working class.

Power you might ask? I'm solar here during the day so eat it up Seti! That includes the cooling!

By the way, I probably dont need it but I'm putting a dual fan liquid cooler on the i7 for now. Why not? They're cheap.

I got the MOBO real reasonable but the power supply for the GPU's was almost $300 @ 2.6KW!
I still need three STD ATX supplies and I'll be ready to start this thing.

ASUS claims very clearly that ALL 19 GPU's can be brought to bear for mining IF they are AMD based cards with a special driver.

If anyone knows of a good low end AMD GPU akin to the NVIDIA Quadro 4000 at $50 each, I'd be in the market to offload all these NVIDIA cards and scoop up 20 or so of the AMD card to see if this Bitcrap miner actual works for Seti better than a massive number of cores.

Lets see... How much faster is one GPU versus one core or thread? Tom? I know thats got to be a very subjective question and answer based on many variables.
I'm hoping with help from Tom, we can get this first pass tuned up to max afterburner and see if its worth it.
If not, maybe the freaks that came up with the Bitcoin idea will do something to relieve the complexity of the last ones left so mining makes sense again...

I'm going to do some tests right now on GPU versus cores / threads and get back to you.

Cheers and THANKS TOM!

Well done on the purchase - sounds as if it could be "quite a beast"

Which version of the Quadro 4000 are you getting? The olde FX4000 do not support CUDA or OpenCL very well (if at all). Make sure they are not those ones, later versions 4000, K4000, M4000, P4000 (in age order, old to new) will work, and work pretty well.

Even the oldest (no-letter4000) will comfortably outperform even the most recent CPU core, and the P4000 is quite a reasonable processor (especially if those are the ones you are getting!).
CPU RAM? This depends on the operating system as much as anything else, I have found Windows (7 Pro) runs best when it has 1gb per core or thread, while Linux is quite happy with half of that.

A lot of wok has been done by people like Keith, Brent and myself to establish the best core:GPU ratio and have come to the conclusion that 1:1 works best for SETI when running the "SoG" application, you can get away with 0.5:1 if running the stock CUDA application, but again that benefits from nearer 1:1. But, as the saying goes "every system is different" - enjoy your trials.

Ahhh, I miss read your PSU -the 2.6kw is for the GPU rack (wise move to get one of those racks, saves a lot of mess).
As you say, you will need 3 ATX power supplies for the motherboard - since these will be powering the CPU and the PCI slot 75w limit I would look for something in the region 500 to 600 watt each - single rail, modular would be best, but "they ain't cheap", so any good brand supply will be adequate.

I'm no good on suggesting AMD processors - but I think the RX480 is akin to the nVida GTX740 in terms of performance - which is a bit below the Quadro M4000.

Don't forget the interconnection cables between the motherboard and the GPU rack!!!!

---

Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Okay, Not being filthy rich, I cant go in for the top of the line GPU's like some are using.
I had no idea you can spend $10K on one of those! (Cough, choke, puke)
Who spends $10K on a video card?

OMG. He done it!

According to the to GPU list, if the index numbers are cross compatible from the vendors, the RX 580 is in the same neighborhood as my favorite the Gtx 1060 3GB. I also have virtually no experience with the AMD video card line.
https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/gpu_list.php
You should be able to hunt on the leaderboard(s) and find some people who do have experience and send them PM's.

The Quadro 4000's I looked at (previously) are not competitive at all.

If you are looking for $50 cards, start shopping for Gtx 750Ti's or maybe even 750's. Make offers, the prices are floating up in the $60-$70 range but you might be to grab a few. Two Gtx 750Ti's have near the production but not the speed of a single Gtx 1060 3GB. (12-14 minute vs. around 7 min) in stock Seti SOG. Please avoid any listings that say "generic" or overseas. That should keep you from buying fake Nvidia cards.

Any gpu from a Gtx 750Ti on up will run anywhere from 2-3 to X times faster in processing than the 3Ghz class cpus (under Windows).

As Bob said, "Don't forget your riser card kits." Depending on the MB you will either need the ones that fit into PCI slots or the ones that are actually USB 3.0 format.

Once you get up past about 4-5 cards you are going to have to experiment with the Bio's Mining mode.

Until you get up into the Gtx 1080+ range you don't need to worry about running more than one task on a gpu. I am not sure about the AMD side of the house. All I have is the documentation from the setiathome folder under ProgramData.

You can certainly play with the Quadro 4000's but unless I misunderstood the specs, please don't buy any more of them.

HTH,
Tom (waiting with baited breath)

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A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association).

I just PMed the first person on the leaderboard who was running AMD GPUs (Vega) and his entire collection of machines are running a variety of AMD cards. If he joins us, he should have a wealth of information for the what kind of AMD to buy question.

Tom

---

A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association).

Yep, I done it! What the heck? Its only money and the hope we catch a live alien signal one day.

My true concerns are our limited understanding of physics.
What if we're way off base and the aliens intercom has been hanging on our walls for millennia?
Oh well, fodder for another day...

I have to wait for the CPU to get here from eCrap.
The rack is assembled and oh yea, I have to wait until payday to buy three more ATX supplies to feed the beast. (Friday)

Did some snooping on two of my 3 systems.
The E5 2643 runs 1:40 per work unit per thread. (.0531 CPU's per) Weird #...
The NVIDIA Quadro 4000 runs :23 per work unit.

My MSI gamers laptop I use for work is an 8th Gen i7 @ 2.5 GHz (6 cores) (.254 CPU's per GPU)
2:20 per work unit per thread
Its NVIDIA GPU... :30 min per work unit.

How does Seti figure out the # of CPU's per GPU?
Whats the tech behind that?

So, if I can get each work unit down to 10-12 min each at 8 cards or more, I feel like I'm doing MUCH better than 12 or even 32 threads although I have not timed my 32 thread system yet. it also has NVIDIA Quado 4K's

Too bad I dont have the resources to get a lithium battery bank for my solar system so I can crunch 24/7.
I am working on a venture that might bring that technology home soon.
Cooling plus power for 8 GPUs will run.... Ummm.... Lets see.... WOW! about 2kW an hour? WHEW! I need more panels!
I will see about some AMD cards. The RX 580 Tom speaks about.

Later!

UPDATE -

The RX 580's are around $150 to $250 each on eCrap.
X19 is... $4K? Is this sane? For an extra 10 minutes per work unit?

Need more input.

RX 580 miners abound on eCrap for $1500 to $2500 for six GPU's plus a mobo...

Yep, I done it! What the heck? Its only money and the hope we catch a live alien signal one day.

-----edit-----------------
Did some snooping on two of my 3 systems.
The E5 2643 runs 1:40 per work unit per thread. (.0531 CPU's per) Weird #...
The NVIDIA Quadro 4000 runs :23 per work unit.

My MSI gamers laptop I use for work is an 8th Gen i7 @ 2.5 GHz (6 cores) (.254 CPU's per GPU)
2:20 per work unit per thread
Its NVIDIA GPU... :30 min per work unit.

How does Seti figure out the # of CPU's per GPU?
Whats the tech behind that?

So, if I can get each work unit down to 10-12 min each at 8 cards or more, I feel like I'm doing MUCH better than 12 or even 32 threads although I have not timed my 32 thread system yet. it also has NVIDIA Quado 4K's

Too bad I dont have the resources to get a lithium battery bank for my solar system so I can crunch 24/7.
I am working on a venture that might bring that technology home soon.
Cooling plus power for 8 GPUs will run.... Ummm.... Lets see.... WOW! about 2kW an hour? WHEW! I need more panels!
I will see about some AMD cards. The RX 580 Tom speaks about.

Later!

I know that if you don't include a "app_config.xml" file in each setiathome directory you will get whatever BOINC/Seti decides is the default. That is where you are getting those "odd" cpu % / gpu numbers from (if I am understanding what you said).

If your Quadro 4000's are spec at what I just saw, you should be getting 1 task / gpu in about 2-4 hours. Are you? Don't pay attention to the "estimated time to complete" column until you have been running a couple of weeks. You pretty much have to catch gpu tasks in their 98+% total. Setting the cpu 1 / gpu couldn't hurt, might help.

You are running stock Seti on your 32 thread machine. So a Gtx 750Ti will get you around 15 minutes / task. A Gtx 1060 #GB will get you around 7 minutes / task.

Once you are in higher end gpus you could try the Lunatics distro which runs under windows or you could try a Linux/CUDA90+ to speed up life. As far as I can tell, Linux/CUDA90+ won't work with Quadro 4000's. I don't know if the Lunatics distro will work with the Quadro 4000.

The prices on the Radeon 470's(?) are about the same as used Gtx 11063GB which are going for around $150 on eBay. Since, if I read the review right, you can run upto 8 Gtx's I would fill those out first if the prices are comparable.
HTH,
Tom

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A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association).

How does Seti figure out the # of CPU's per GPU?
Whats the tech behind that?

Basically, some time ago someone in the lab did a few runs and decided what the figure should be in an ideal world. Then users came along and looked at the amount of CPU used by a running application using task manager and similar tools and saw that it was nearer 1 than the guy in the lab thought (or guessed?). As you say - there are some really strange figures out there.

24/7 is certainly a challenge for crunchers, you would certainly need a fairly substantial battery pack to get you through the night.

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

I just found this machine on the Leaderboard: https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/show_host_detail.php?hostid=8568434

I counted 10 gtx 1080Ti's when I examined a gpu task that was pending. And it lists 13 GPUs. It looks like it is running "stock" Seti under Linux. If it hadn't listed Linux I would have assumed it was running stock seti under windows :)

I think we have met our first repurposed BitCoin Miner. :)

Tom

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A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association).

Well darn!

At least we know it is possible!

Tom, is Linux any better for Seti in WildCard Corp's machine than Windows would be?
I'm not a Linux guy but I see a new boatload of the same GPU's on line for sale.
I wonder what mobo he has?
Is his average score daily? Geez...

Tom, is Linux any better for Seti in WildCard Corp's machine than Windows would be?
I'm not a Linux guy but I see a new boatload of the same GPU's on line for sale.
I wonder what mobo he has?
Is his average score daily? Geez...

Based on my recent experience with Linux and an Alpha level product that you could also try, WildCard Corp is succeeding inspite of using possibly the slowest (but presumably most robust) app software available for Linux.

Commentary:
Basically if you go for Windows and the stock Seti Distro, once you are setup with the hardware and are happy with it, then you switch to what is called the Lunatics Distro. This should bump your speed up maybe 30%? I know I got a nice bump when I used it.

As I remember it, you already have a high GPU MB and a CPU on order. You can use those and at least one Gtx 750Ti or higher card to get your "feet" wet one way or another.

I would also put at least one Gtx 750TI or higher on your e5-2670 MB and run it with the Lubuntu(Linux) and Seti(Cuda90) script from the Unix/Linux Questions and Answers message thread. You will be pretty impressed by the performance.

Tom

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A proud member of the OFA (Old Farts Association).