Reports on experiments with a Dell Optiplex 7010 Microtower

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Message 1878741 - Posted: 17 Jul 2017, 14:34:39 UTC
Last modified: 17 Jul 2017, 15:12:54 UTC

One of the reasons I wanted to experiment with a 7010 was it was a "low cost" turnkey system (no OS but I have a large supply of Win7 product codes so who cares?) which supports the AVX enhancements. Basically this means it runs cpu tasks a bunch faster than my other SSE4.2 machines. (Go Lunatics Beta6!)https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21AFg76LeCY4GbPRk&id=8D83BF774A4A86F5%21979&cid=8D83BF774A4A86F5

So the basic setup was an i7-3770 (3.4Ghz+turbo, 4c/8t) with 8GB of ram, a 500GB HD, Dvd drive. I had a spare GTX 750Ti low profile that fit so I put that in, installed Win7, upgraded to SP1 and installed stock Boinc/Seti.

After getting my usual GTX 750Ti baseline of 15-20 minutes per SOG task and a brisk 2.5~ hours/Seti task on the gpus I upgraded to Lunatics beta6, installed the r3584 gpu app that has some additional benefits.

So got the cpu tasks down into the range of 1.7 hours~ and the gpu tasks dropped into the 8-15 minute range.

But I was ambitious. So I tried my first hardware experiment (next message).
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Message 1878742 - Posted: 17 Jul 2017, 14:47:58 UTC - in response to Message 1878741.  

I had recently installed a full-sized GTX 1060 3GB on my HPZ400. Since the AVX extensions made the cpu processing faster, I wanted to "maximize" my Dell 7010. (Amateur street Hot Rod-ers will understand).

I had already managed to retrofit an after market 500 watt PS to replace the stock 235 watt PS. This requires a small amount of surgery to an inside plastic latch because the 500 watt is just a tiny bit longer than the stock. I plugged it all in and booted in and TThortle reported the whole thing was running cooler.

That was great because it was previously running 75C on the cpu under load. Since Dell support said that was "normal" I wasn't sweating (too much).

So I pulled the "full-sized" Gtx 1060 3GB video card out of my Z400 and ran into my second stumbling block (the first had been getting at least a 400 watt PS into the case). It was about a half inch too long! :(

I considered damaging the 2nd HD cage so I could fit it in anyway. I'm not that good with metal bending and I had intended to install a 2nd HD anyway. This was before the "crypto currency" gpu bubble had hit. You could still buy a Gtx 1060 for $200-$225.

A Zotac Gtx 1060 6GB Compact (wasn't a low profile, but it was shorter) was available for about $225 so I bought it.

I pulled the Gtx 750 Ti out and installed it after it was delivered. Plugged in the external power cable etc.

It booted, came right up with no complaints etc.

But wait! There's more.
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Message 1878744 - Posted: 17 Jul 2017, 14:56:05 UTC - in response to Message 1878742.  
Last modified: 17 Jul 2017, 15:17:27 UTC

So I had a busy month experimenting with a Z600 (12c/24t) https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=81696 and I wanted to make it my "maximum" machine with two, yes TWO Gtx 1060's in it.

So I shutdown the Dell 7010. Replaced the Gtx 1060 in it with the original Gtx 750Ti and went to boot it.

Nothing happened. The power light had turned orange/amber (its normally white), blinked twice, pause, blink once.

Dell support provided the key. That code was "replace system board". Yup. I had burned out the motherboard by simply putting in an aftermarket PS and a video card that had twice the draw that the motherboard would have supported on the 235 watt PS.

The good news is, used replacement motherboards were cheap. I ordered a replacement MB, put the original PS back in it and waited (not completely patiently) for it to arrive.

When it did, it was pretty straight forward to swap the ram, cpu and cpu heatsink onto the replacement motherboard and the Dell 7010 booted right back up! So I was good, wasn't I?

(but wait, there's more :)
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Message 1878745 - Posted: 17 Jul 2017, 15:11:53 UTC - in response to Message 1878744.  
Last modified: 17 Jul 2017, 15:20:45 UTC

Now a Dell OptiPlex 7010 has an integrated video function w/vga plug as well as the ability install supported discrete video cards.

I have seen examples of Seti machine page listings where the machine had both a discrete video card and the Intel internal video listed so I knew it was possible. I have also read that processing gpu tasks on an Intel integrated gpu will slow the whole system down (Ah, ha! another experiment :)

I poked around and downloaded the Intel video driver from Dell for this machine. But it complained bitterly that the "hardware wasn't active" went I tried to install it.

I will note that you don't need this driver to simply use the internal video with Microsoft. But if you want to try to process gpu tasks you need something on the order of an HD 4000 level hardware and driver.

About a half hour ago, after I pulled the Gtx 750Ti out and plugged the monitor directly into the motherboard I was able to install the Intel HD 4000 gpu driver. After a couple of experimental reboots I reinstalled my Gtx 750 Ti video card but I am still driving the monitor via the internal intel gpu (I will experiment with returning to dual monitors driven buy the Gtx 750 TI later to see if I can still run the Intel gpu).

I setup one of my Seti preferences (production and seti beta) (school because that is where you experiment) for both Nvidia, Intel and cpu. I also had to re-run the Lunatics beta6 installer to include the Intel gpu for production Seti.

It will probably take days or a week+ before I have enough of a baseline to show
1) How fast/slow is Intel gpu processing.
2) Has it slowed my cpu processing down?
3) Has it slowed my Gtx 750Ti processing down?

Stay tuned for more exciting Seti developments from a guy with too much time on his hands.

Tom
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Message 1878790 - Posted: 17 Jul 2017, 21:16:58 UTC - in response to Message 1878745.  

The latest hiccup, is once this system starts "resting" it refuses to wakeup with w/o a system reboot. Try it with no parameters this time.

Reported performance for the intel gpu is not completely horrible. It looks like it is running a task every 2 hours (maybe) which puts it in the same general ball park as my tests with a GT 710-720 (2.5 hrs with stock gpu, 1.5 hours with lunatics).

I finally had a chance to exam it with Gpu-Z and it appears to have "4 rops/6 Tmu's" and <gasp> 16 "shaders." I don't know about you, but the GT 720 has 192 shaders so that performance must be coming from someplace (ghost shaders? :). The last video card I had with 8 shaders was taking about 8 hours / task.

Hmmm....

Tom
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Message 1878814 - Posted: 17 Jul 2017, 22:40:00 UTC
Last modified: 17 Jul 2017, 22:41:18 UTC

This may be helpful if you are having issues getting both GPUs to be detected by BOINC. http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=74820&postid=1520333#1520333
There still needs to be further testing to see if mixing other projects on the CPU & iGPU result in a similar slow down that is seen when all tasks are SETI@home ones.
I keep meaning to get around to that, but I usually fin other things to do instead.

The iGPU normally performs about as well as a CPU core. ~2Hr for a task on IvyBridge sounds about right.

I went through a number of PSUs, MBs, & fans for the Optiplex 740, 750, 980, 7010, & 9020 systems I had at my last work.
My opinion is that they are not the most ideal cruncher, but they will work. At least for a bit...
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Message 1878840 - Posted: 18 Jul 2017, 0:06:15 UTC - in response to Message 1878814.  

There still needs to be further testing to see if mixing other projects on the CPU & iGPU result in a similar slow down that is seen when all tasks are SETI@home ones.
I keep meaning to get around to that, but I usually find other things to do instead.

The iGPU normally performs about as well as a CPU core. ~2Hr for a task on IvyBridge sounds about right.


I just got done re-enabling my two monitor setup for this computer. It took 1 monitor on the iGPU plug as well as putting one on my Gtx 750Ti for the iGPU to come up again. Apparently setting the iGPU as primary monitor and then plugging everything into the Gtx 750Ti doesn't cut it.

All the other projects I run don't use (apparently) the GPU so I am probably not going to get around to the testing you mentioned. On the other hand if someone has a project with gpu processing besides Seti, SetiBeta and GPUGrid (Nvidia only) I might very well add it and see what happens :)

Thank you Hal.

Tom
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Message 1878842 - Posted: 18 Jul 2017, 0:08:48 UTC - in response to Message 1878814.  
Last modified: 18 Jul 2017, 0:11:35 UTC

I went through a number of PSUs, MBs, & fans for the Optiplex 740, 750, 980, 7010, & 9020 systems I had at my last work.
My opinion is that they are not the most ideal cruncher, but they will work. At least for a bit...


Did you hang something like a Gtx 1060 on any of them? And/or add an after market PS so you could? Did any of them "fry"?

I will admit, I only have the 1 sample of it frying. But I wouldn't mind running a Gtx 1060 on my 7010 if I was confident it wouldn't fry again.

I have been thinking about a Gtx 1050Ti but I don't know what they "really" draw. I had assurances that a Gtx 750Ti only drew 35 watts after startup so I haven't worried about running it in the "dinky Dell's" I have been playing with.

Tom
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Message 1878855 - Posted: 18 Jul 2017, 1:29:16 UTC - in response to Message 1878842.  

I went through a number of PSUs, MBs, & fans for the Optiplex 740, 750, 980, 7010, & 9020 systems I had at my last work.
My opinion is that they are not the most ideal cruncher, but they will work. At least for a bit...


Did you hang something like a Gtx 1060 on any of them? And/or add an after market PS so you could? Did any of them "fry"?

I will admit, I only have the 1 sample of it frying. But I wouldn't mind running a Gtx 1060 on my 7010 if I was confident it wouldn't fry again.

I have been thinking about a Gtx 1050Ti but I don't know what they "really" draw. I had assurances that a Gtx 750Ti only drew 35 watts after startup so I haven't worried about running it in the "dinky Dell's" I have been playing with.

Tom

As the systems were test machines in my lab they were only fitted with the GPU as delivered by Dell. I did bump the specs when ordering the systems so that we wouldn't have to replace them as quickly as we previously were, but they were smaller GPUs. Like Radeon HD 2000 series or R7 250's. The parts would just randomly go for seemingly no reason. One was a MB that had it's capacitors blow. Which was memorable because it made the whole lab small for hours.
While the machines were under warranty they were replaced with factory parts. After the warranty expired I was allowed to purchase after market PSUs, but I'm reasonably sure they were from the same company that made them for Dell.

I have seen my EVGA 750 Ti FTW draw up to 45w, but recently it has been maxing out at 32w. Currently averaging 22w running 2 SoG tasks at once.
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Message 1878860 - Posted: 18 Jul 2017, 2:09:13 UTC

GPU projects that I know of:

Seti, Seti_Beta, Einstein, Collatz, Milkyway, MooWrapper, PrimeGrid, Xansons, Burp, Universe, GPUGrid.

Some of the projects due not have a client for every type Nvidia, Amd, Intel. Some of them the client is still in development and not released yet. So you will have to check them out individually to see if they have one that will work with your graphics card.
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Message 1878864 - Posted: 18 Jul 2017, 2:18:56 UTC - in response to Message 1878860.  

GPU projects that I know of:

Seti, Seti_Beta, Einstein, Collatz, Milkyway, MooWrapper, PrimeGrid, Xansons, Burp, Universe, GPUGrid.


Thank you for the list Darrell. That should give me something to "moo" and/or "munch" on ;)

Tom
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Message 1878865 - Posted: 18 Jul 2017, 2:22:41 UTC

I recently re-enabled my "mb*?.txt" and "ap*?.txt" files for the Intel GPU and experienced another system lockup while I was writing a PM to a moderator.

I just re-booted and disabled the parameter cards so Intel GPU is back to using "defaults".

The only confounding factor is I had just downloaded/installed a number Boinc/Seti addons. So there is also the chance that they locked me up.

Will post again on the great locked up machine experiment. Its been 3 times with active parameter files, so far.

Tom
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Message 1878869 - Posted: 18 Jul 2017, 2:28:12 UTC - in response to Message 1878860.  

GPU projects that I know of:

Seti, Seti_Beta, Einstein, Collatz, Milkyway, MooWrapper, PrimeGrid, Xansons, Burp, Universe, GPUGrid.

Some of the projects due not have a client for every type Nvidia, Amd, Intel. Some of them the client is still in development and not released yet. So you will have to check them out individually to see if they have one that will work with your graphics card.

There is also http://boinc.berkeley.edu/projects.php
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Message 1878876 - Posted: 18 Jul 2017, 3:00:44 UTC - in response to Message 1878865.  

I recently re-enabled my "mb*?.txt" and "ap*?.txt" files for the Intel GPU and experienced another system lockup while I was writing a PM to a moderator.

I just re-booted and disabled the parameter cards so Intel GPU is back to using "defaults".

The only confounding factor is I had just downloaded/installed a number Boinc/Seti addons. So there is also the chance that they locked me up.

Will post again on the great locked up machine experiment. Its been 3 times with active parameter files, so far.

Tom


Make that 4 screen stopped being responsive. This time with the parameter files inactive. :(

I had some Boinc/Seti add-ons installed so I just un-installed them.

If the "screen not responsive" issue goes away, I will presume it was "their" fault :)

Tom
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Message 1878885 - Posted: 18 Jul 2017, 3:29:01 UTC - in response to Message 1878860.  
Last modified: 18 Jul 2017, 3:39:48 UTC

GPU projects that I know of:

Seti, Seti_Beta, Einstein, Collatz, Milkyway, MooWrapper, PrimeGrid, Xansons, Burp, Universe, GPUGrid.


Where is "BURP"? I don't see it on my "add projects list".

So far only Einstein and Xansons specifically offer tasks for the Intel GPU. I have gone back through all of the projects I have added and said "cpu" only if they didn't offer Intel GPU tasks. For the two who did, I set them to "no cpu" so they will feed me nothing but the "best" :)

Tom
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Message 1878899 - Posted: 18 Jul 2017, 5:08:02 UTC

BURP is at http://burp.renderfarming.net/ and currently has just a Nvidia app, but is slowly working on an AMD app. CPU app is multi-threaded and likes two cores.
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Message 1879019 - Posted: 19 Jul 2017, 8:34:34 UTC

Report on running the Intel Gpu side by side with a discrete video card and all cores busy processing BOINC tasks.

So far, if I run w/o any parameters on SetiBeta it doesn't lock up.

I can't see any slow downs in the Gx 750Ti mostly seti processing times. Nor in the Seti cpu processing times. These are both running Lunatics Beta6.
Not sure about the other projects.

The processing speeds appear to be consistent with the equivalent of adding a cpu core. I have dropped the gpu/cpu ratio to 1 gpu / .33 cpu and seem to have not suffered. So I would say the experiment is a "success" in that sense.

So, right now, I don't think I have any support for using Intel GPU HD4000 slows down the whole system theory. The results might change if there was not also a discrete gpu running.

Tom
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Message 1879200 - Posted: 20 Jul 2017, 8:20:42 UTC - in response to Message 1879019.  

So, right now, I don't think I have any support for using Intel GPU HD4000 slows down the whole system theory. The results might change if there was not also a discrete gpu running.


The "graph" however, shows a distinct downward trend ever since I started up the Intel gpu. So that maybe my negative evidence.

Tom
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Message 1879224 - Posted: 20 Jul 2017, 10:58:55 UTC

When I first set up my system with three GTX1080 it had an i7, I ran it for a short time CPU-only, then brought the iGPU into play. Two things happened, the CPU got very hot, and the performance dropped very dramatically (CPU task times were more than doubled), even when I released a core for the iGPU to play with. The same happened with or without hyper-threading.
I then brought the GTX908 into play and went through the various CPU/GPU/iGPU combinations and all those with the iGPU in play were worse in terms of both CPU temperature and run times with it out of play (even the times on the GTX980 were badly affected). So I stopped using the iGPU for anything other than driving a monitor, and eventually gave up on that.
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Message 1879277 - Posted: 20 Jul 2017, 17:49:30 UTC - in response to Message 1879200.  
Last modified: 20 Jul 2017, 17:49:45 UTC

So, right now, I don't think I have any support for using Intel GPU HD4000 slows down the whole system theory. The results might change if there was not also a discrete gpu running.


The "graph" however, shows a distinct downward trend ever since I started up the Intel gpu. So that maybe my negative evidence.

Tom

Lower overall output is expected. It is pretty well documented.
Here are some older threads on the subject you can read over.
A journey: iGPU slowing CPU processing
iGPU tuning
Loading APU to the limit: performance considerations - ongoing research
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Message boards : Number crunching : Reports on experiments with a Dell Optiplex 7010 Microtower


 
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