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Sirius BProject Donor
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Message 1872863 - Posted: 14 Jun 2017, 9:22:27 UTC

Live

Questions being raised already: -
"Clearly something has gone wrong. There should be smoke-free access up to the highest floors & internal water supplies for firefighters."

"Some residents say they were advised in the past that in the event of a fire breaking out, they should stay in their flats with the front door shut and wait to be rescued.

The Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, told the BBC that the advice would be looked into.
"That's one of the things that obviously, not unreasonably, people are raising, and it was raised by some of the residents in the tower block and thankfully residents didn't stay in their flats and fled to safety.
"Across London we've many, many tower blocks and what we can't have is a situation [where] people's safety is put at risk because of bad advice being given or if it is the case, as it's been alleged, of tower blocks not being properly serviced and maintained.""

Stay put proof
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Richard HaselgroveProject Donor
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Message 1872869 - Posted: 14 Jun 2017, 10:30:39 UTC - in response to Message 1872863.  
Last modified: 14 Jun 2017, 10:31:33 UTC

I've been listening to the developing story of this fire since about 5am, when I woke up to hear something unusual on the radio. My first guess was that they were talking about something that had happened in the third world: but no, it was happening in my capital city.

The fire is dreadful, and for the time being it is right that everyone is concentrating on the homeless, the injured, and sadly now confirmed at least six dead.

But it's also right that you started this thread here in politics. Important questions are being asked about the ownership and management of the building, and its place in what is commonly called "the richest borough in London". To put it at its simplest, I'm glad that both the city and the parliamentary constituency are no longer represented by the party in power, so that there will be powerful independent voices to make sure that the inevitable enquiry pokes into all the dark places where secrets may hide.
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Message 1872872 - Posted: 14 Jun 2017, 10:39:12 UTC

This is truly, truly dreadful news. We had a friend who lived near the top of the building, but who I'm so relieved to say moved out towards the end of last year. There are so many elements to this that are coming out, that I don't think it's too far off the mark to say that, the run up to this tragedy, summarises in a nutshell what so many tenants in London are experiencing.

My heart is with everyone caught up in this horror. So sad :(
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Sirius BProject Donor
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Message 1872873 - Posted: 14 Jun 2017, 10:52:10 UTC - in response to Message 1872869.  

Having lived in a tower block for some years in London, it really is shocking on the speed that the fire took hold. Many residents of that building already spoken to, stated that the smoke alarms failed to activate.

An earlier comment on the live report was from the council & they stated that it was down to the LFB. It was also mentioned that the BBC was unable to contact anyone from the property management company.

It seems CYA & the blame game has started already :-(
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Message 1872876 - Posted: 14 Jun 2017, 11:03:24 UTC

BBC had an interview with a fire safety expert a few minutes ago. He very calmly and simply stated the very obvious safety principles that should govern tower blocks.

1) A fire that starts in a flat, stays in that flat.
2) The staircase is isolated from the rest of the building by fire doors, so does not fill with smoke.
3) Fire does not travel up the outside of the building, across, and down the other side, entering other flats as it travels.

The first two are the daily responsibility of the management company, and the third is the responsibility of the designers/contractors of the recent 'refurbishment'. All three failed.
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Profile Wiggo "Socialist"
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Message 1872879 - Posted: 14 Jun 2017, 11:06:34 UTC

It sounds like a building that 1 would find in a 3rd world country, not in the U.K..

How very sad. :-(
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Sirius BProject Donor
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Message 1872880 - Posted: 14 Jun 2017, 11:08:23 UTC - in response to Message 1872876.  

I feel that with the political infighting in Westminster, the fight to get a majority government & Brexit, this incident will end up as a small column on the inside pages of most media :-(
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Message 1872883 - Posted: 14 Jun 2017, 11:36:38 UTC - in response to Message 1872880.  

I feel that with the political infighting in Westminster, the fight to get a majority government & Brexit, this incident will end up as a small column on the inside pages of most media :-(
Perhaps - but it's every citizen's duty to ensure that it doesn't. This should shine a huge searchlight onto the PFI/privatisation/outsourcing movement of the last 30 years.
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Message 1872889 - Posted: 14 Jun 2017, 11:46:11 UTC - in response to Message 1872883.  
Last modified: 14 Jun 2017, 11:48:57 UTC

Agree, but this report & the video embedded about the fire doors installed is also shocking. People have been doing what you stated & the result is this :-(

Edit: Also the Kensington & Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation's website has suddenly gone offline.
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Message 1872891 - Posted: 14 Jun 2017, 11:58:46 UTC

Last year, we remembered the 350th anniversary of the Great Fire of London. We know about these things. We have a Fire Research Station, we had a GLC, and we have Building Regulations and regulators.

All of those things need to be updated for the 21st century and brought back to life.
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Message 1872893 - Posted: 14 Jun 2017, 12:03:02 UTC - in response to Message 1872889.  

Edit: Also the Kensington & Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation's website has suddenly gone offline.
It'll have died under the weight of news media trying to access it (I tried earlier).

Now, is that an organisation for the management of property by tenants, or for the management of tenants? Why isn't public property managed by the public bodies we elect to do the job? (see my comments about the fashion for outsourcing earlier).
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Message 1872894 - Posted: 14 Jun 2017, 12:03:55 UTC - in response to Message 1872891.  

Again agree but...

How we work with the KCTMO

..."The KCTMO manages the Council housing stock and as such the Council cannot take enforcement action against it."
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Message 1872904 - Posted: 14 Jun 2017, 12:58:43 UTC - in response to Message 1872891.  

Last year, we remembered the 350th anniversary of the Great Fire of London. We know about these things. We have a Fire Research Station, we had a GLC, and we have Building Regulations and regulators.

All of those things need to be updated for the 21st century and brought back to life.

This report backs up your statement
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Message 1872909 - Posted: 14 Jun 2017, 13:21:27 UTC - in response to Message 1872904.  

..."The KCTMO manages the Council housing stock and as such the Council cannot take enforcement action against it."
In that case, we the people will have to take both of them to court.

This report backs up your statement
No, it doesn't. I was simply calling for, in the first case, existing knowledge to be applied. That can start today. Updated or new regulations will take tine, and can follow later.
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Message 1872910 - Posted: 14 Jun 2017, 13:34:26 UTC - in response to Message 1872909.  

Sorry, I thought it did. No matter though, the right questions are now being asked.

"Former chief fire officer Ronnie King, honorary secretary of the all-party parliamentary group on fire safety and rescue, said the regulations "badly need updating" and "three successive ministers have not done it".

He told the Press Association: "It's sad that we always have to go to stable-door legislation."
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Message 1872916 - Posted: 14 Jun 2017, 14:42:34 UTC

Inquest report on the Lakanal House tower block fire:

Lakanal House tower block fire: deaths 'could have been prevented'

It's evident from the jury's verdict that these were unnecessary deaths. They shouldn't have died. A perfectly safe building became unsafe because of the way they did the refurbishments. Then there was no fire inspection that would have shown what the problems were.
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Message 1872918 - Posted: 14 Jun 2017, 15:03:49 UTC
Last modified: 14 Jun 2017, 15:07:44 UTC

Grenfell Tower, London :(

Fasting Muslims hand out water!
Volunteers from the charity Islamic Relief UK are working at the scene, although the Muslim holy month of Ramadan will mean they cannot eat until sundown.
https://twitter.com/IslamicReliefUK/status/874998932128092161/photo/1
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Message 1872919 - Posted: 14 Jun 2017, 15:05:51 UTC - in response to Message 1872916.  

"We fear very much that lessons have not been learned and that it could happen again."

Forgive my sarcasm...

...that building is too badly gutted to be refurbished & will have to be demolished. Watch luxury flats getting built in its place.
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Message 1872923 - Posted: 14 Jun 2017, 15:15:11 UTC
Last modified: 14 Jun 2017, 15:16:15 UTC

Grenfell Tower fire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire
There were significant safety concerns prior to the fire, with criticism levelled against the Kensington and Chelsea London Borough Council for fire safety and building maintenance. A residents' organisation, Grenfell Action Group, published a blog in which it highlighted major safety problems. In 2013, the group published a 2012 fire risk assessment done by a TMO Health and Safety Officer that revealed significant safety violations. Firefighting equipment at the tower had not been checked for up to four years; fire extinguishers on site were expired, and some had "condemned" written on them in large black letters because they were so old. The Grenfell Action Group documented its attempts to contact KCTMO management; they also alerted Timothy Coleridge, the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea (RBKC) Cabinet Member for Housing and Property, but never received a reply from him or his deputy, Laura Johnson.[6][16]
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Message 1872935 - Posted: 14 Jun 2017, 16:06:36 UTC

We have known for a while what building cladding does
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/28/major-fire-breaks-ajman-tower-dubai-uae
Why is it still permitted by building code?
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Message boards : Politics : Shocking!


 
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