Cat Stevens was brought up in Sandviken Sweden.
And he converted to Islam in the 90's I think.

1979 when he changed his name to Yusef Islam.

That early? Time flies when getting older:)
Great Artist and a Great human being anyway!

Yes. I dealt with him when he had to bring the Deed Poll for his name change to our office in London to record the name change regarding his PRP (Personal Retirement Plan).

Cat Stevens was brought up in Sandviken Sweden.
And he converted to Islam in the 90's I think.

1979 when he changed his name to Yusef Islam.

That early? Time flies when getting older:)
Great Artist and a Great human being anyway!

Yes. I dealt with him when he had to bring the Deed Poll for his name change to our office in London to record the name change regarding his PRP (Personal Retirement Plan).

Deed Polls is new to me. Here I thinks it's voluntary.
I know in Britain it cost a LOT to change names.
I know that women could change their last name when getting married.
Like my sister for instance who now have the name Ann McGuiness:)

The so-called Islamic State group has claimed responsibility for the attack on London last night.
Its news outlet Amaq, on the messaging app Telegram, said "a security unit of Islamic State fighters carried out the London attacks yesterday".
It was posted on IS channels on the messaging app at 22:26 BST.

Isn't that nice.
It's Ramadan. Very true
Islamic. Very false.
State. Very false.

Put Daesh in a pit hole like a colleague to my GF who was punished the arabic way!
This is true and I'm not joking!

British police and security services fear that the London Bridge Terror attack may inspire to new attacks.
They monitor 3,000 people who are capable of conducting attacks.
At the same time, they are investigating whether the attackers were part of a major terrorist cell.

Now Scotland Yard goes out with the identity of two of the three offenders: Khuram Shazad Butt and Rachid Redouane.

One of the suspected London Bridge terrorists participated in a documentary about jihadists last year.
Already two years ago, Khuram Shazad Butt should have been reported to the police when he tried to radicalize children in a park.
- I'm ready to do what is needed in the name of Allah, including killing my own mother, he should have said.

Put them in a pit and throw away the ladder like some other Muslims does to "White Dogs".
Grr....

Islamic. Very false.

Hrm... OK, who is is Islamic, then? As far as I can tell, all someone has to do to be a Muslim is say "There is no god but God, and Mohammed is his prophet" in any language, not just medieval Arabic, and mean it (OK... claim to mean it!) The five pillars can come later. From that point on, the person is a Muslim. They cannot be excommunicated as there is no governing body to do so. On the contrary, much of Islam asserts just the opposite, that one can't (or at least shouldn't) leave for any reason at all (apostasy.) I'm pretty certain that these people would have had to reaffirm this daily, possibly several times. Similarly, all a person has to do to be a Christian is recite a simplified version of the Nicene creed, and mean it. Catholics (and others) can be excommunicated, but they can still call themselves Catholics or whatever they were... anyone can claim to be of any denomination of course. Similarly, all one has to do to be an atheist is deny belief in the existence of any supernatural supreme being(s).

Thus, these criminal acts were carried out by Muslims, the Christians who carry out criminal acts are still Christians, and the atheists who carry out criminal acts are still atheists. If we do not accept this, we perpetuate the nonsense that having a particular religious affiliation automatically confers some sort of moral superiority that can then be used to excuse crimes and human rights abuses within that affiliation.

(In informal logic, this is is known as the No true Scotsman fallacy.)

---

But just as Christians who choose to disassociate themselves from people doing violence in the name of Chistianity, isn't just as try for Muslims to do the same? Yes, a Muslim extremist might claim to be Muslim, but can't other Muslims say their way is not the way of their God, and therefore not true Muslim?

But just as Christians who choose to disassociate themselves from people doing violence in the name of Chistianity, isn't just as try for Muslims to do the same? Yes, a Muslim extremist might claim to be Muslim, but can't other Muslims say their way is not the way of their God, and therefore not true Muslim?

They are certainly radical, violent, intolerant, extremist , etc. as opposed to the moderate, non-violent and tolerant people who would claim they were not "true", but as noted, entry into a religion (or non-religion) is so simple and free of restrictions on what kind of person one is, that unless the rules are changed, it can't be claimed they are not members.

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and mean it.

Ah, but did they mean it? Did they understand it enough to mean it? Did they even say it?

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There is only one rule that Christians, Jews and Muslims can agree to.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule
However there are few of them that doesn't.
And we let them rule?
So sad, too bad...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8JwTB5kwOs

But just as Christians who choose to disassociate themselves from people doing violence in the name of Chistianity, isn't just as try for Muslims to do the same? Yes, a Muslim extremist might claim to be Muslim, but can't other Muslims say their way is not the way of their God, and therefore not true Muslim?

They are certainly radical, violent, intolerant, extremist , etc. as opposed to the moderate, non-violent and tolerant people who would claim they were not "true", but as noted, entry into a religion (or non-religion) is so simple and free of restrictions on what kind of person one is, that unless the rules are changed, it can't be claimed they are not members.

But that's merely self identification. Yes, they can claim they're a member but that doesn't make them a member outside of their own mind.

But that's merely self identification. Yes, they can claim they're a member but that doesn't make them a member outside of their own mind.

However, the "membership rules" of all three religious viewpoints I indicated as example is self-identification. You repeat a certain phrase and you're in.

Coincidentally I glanced at Google News and this piece from the Boston Globe basically stating my point was on the front page (along with one about 130 imams who are refusing to have anything to do with funerals for the London attackers)

Arguable: Can a real Muslim be a jihadist?

But this is self-deception. Jihadists are not bogus Muslims any more than the murderous Crusaders of a millennium ago were bogus Christians, or than the genocidal Khmer Rouge in Cambodia were bogus Communists. Western leaders who proclaim that no real Muslim would engage in terrorist bombings and mayhem may be trying to show respect for Islam. Yet they are unwittingly providing cover for the religion’s worst expounders, and undermining those in the Muslim world most desperately in need of international support: the reformers and moderates who reject the radicals’ message, and struggle to replace it with a modern interpretation that is pluralist and tolerant.

---

There are Mufti, who are Islamic scholars, which interpret Sharia Law.
However, since Islam relies upon those within the same Beliefs, sometimes small groups of people. To follow what they believe the Holy Quran says.
There is no Central Authority, or Authorities, to say who a true Muslim is, or who isn't.

Yes. And there lies the problem.
Both Christians and Muslims don't understand the religious texts written many hundred years ago anymore.
No. They and we rely on interpreters of our holy scripts.
Geez...

But that's merely self identification. Yes, they can claim they're a member but that doesn't make them a member outside of their own mind.

However, the "membership rules" of all three religious viewpoints I indicated as example is self-identification. You repeat a certain phrase and you're in.

I'm sure it's more complicated than that. To belong to a religion you must live it's sacred tenents every day. I understand the jihadists think that's what they're doing but if the other devout disassociate themselves from their interpretation, I would think that still counts as not a true believer.

Arguable: Can a real Muslim be a jihadist?

But this is self-deception. Jihadists are not bogus Muslims any more than the murderous Crusaders of a millennium ago were bogus Christians, or than the genocidal Khmer Rouge in Cambodia were bogus Communists. Western leaders who proclaim that no real Muslim would engage in terrorist bombings and mayhem may be trying to show respect for Islam. Yet they are unwittingly providing cover for the religion’s worst expounders, and undermining those in the Muslim world most desperately in need of international support: the reformers and moderates who reject the radicals’ message, and struggle to replace it with a modern interpretation that is pluralist and tolerant.

I don't entirely disagreee with that last statement, but on the flipside where's the Christian outage over their brethren beating gays for their lifestyle? It isn't needed because we know not all Christians believe that sect is following their God. That group self identifies as Christian but that doesn't mean they're living Christ's tenents.

I'm sure it's more complicated than that. To belong to a religion you must live it's sacred tenents every day. I understand the jihadists think that's what they're doing but if the other devout disassociate themselves from their interpretation, I would think that still counts as not a true believer.

Yes. It's very complicated.
Or is it?
Children knows how it works.
Sigh...
I really need some covfefe!

And now Trump tweeted this!

That's right, we need a TRAVEL BAN for certain DANGEROUS countries, not some politically correct term that won't help us protect our people!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/871899511525961728

Right now the MOST dangerous country is the USA!

@Trump. STOP YOUR NONSENSE!

US President Donald Trump has criticized London mayor Sadiq Khan on Twitter after the terrorist council at London Bridge, for statements made by Khan after the terrorist attacks. However, the British media has argued that Trump has lifted the quote he criticizes from his context. The White House responded with the view that the media is too obsessed with all the details of the president's tweets.

"At least 7 dead and 48 wounded in terror attack and Mayor of London says there is "no reason to be alarmed!""
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/871328428963901440
"Pathetic excuse by London Mayor Sadiq Khan who had to think fast on his "no reason to be alarmed" statement. MSM is working hard to sell it!"
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/871725780535062528

When will Trump stop his insulting tweets?

And what is MSM?
Can't Trump type so we understand?

Now I really need some covfefe!

And what is MSM?
Can't Trump type so we understand?

Now I really need some covfefe!

MSM is covfefe.

Jan, there are just three streets in New York. :)
Wall Street, you have heard of.
Madison Avenue, is where the advertising hucksters hang out.
Main Street, where the rest try and make money by selling things.

So the usual is if something is good for Main Street, it is bad for Wall Street and vice versa.

So MS is one of the streets, Main Street and the M is where Madison Avenue places their product, Media.

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And what is MSM?
Can't Trump type so we understand?
Now I really need some covfefe!

MSM is covfefe.
Jan, there are just three streets in New York. :)
Wall Street, you have heard of.
Madison Avenue, is where the advertising hucksters hang out.
Main Street, where the rest try and make money by selling things.
So the usual is if something is good for Main Street, it is bad for Wall Street and vice versa.
So MS is one of the streets, Main Street and the M is where Madison Avenue places their product, Media.

Hehe:)
I haven't been to New York.
Wall Street I know.
Madison Avenue. Perhaps.
Madison Square Garden is perhaps located there.
Main Street? Never heard of.
But I do know 222 W 23rd:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_lU-NEW9Fw

btw. Have you played the computer game GTA 4?
Located in New York.
New York and it's streets now feels like home to me!

And of course played Mafia 2
http://cdn.edgecast.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/5838/movie480.webm?t=1447353357

Problem... Most do not care.

But there lies the problem.
If no one cares....

And what is MSM?

At first I thought he was talking about methylsulfonylmethane, but then I worked out that he was talking about "Main Stream Media".

That's what you get when you have small hands I guess.

Cheers.