Has a parallel universe been discovered?

Message boards : Science (non-SETI) : Has a parallel universe been discovered?
Message board moderation

Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4

AuthorMessage
Chris S
Volunteer tester

Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 40899
Credit: 41,444,537
RAC: 369
Message 1868750 - Posted: 22 May 2017, 7:42:49 UTC

Another kind of concept like infinity is time, which must exist in any universe parallel or not. You can't see it, you can't hold it in your hand. What you can do however, is measure the elapse of time between any two events by means of clocks and watches and other instruments. You can observe a clock that indicates that it is midnight, you can observe it later and it might indicate 12.10, from that second observation you can deduce that 10 minutes have elapsed since you last observed the clock. That is a good enough estimate for day to day use.

In actuality though, at 1 millionth of a second to midnight it is before midnight. At 1 millionth of a second past midnight it is after midnight. The clock will instantaneously change from one to the other, therefore logically there is no point that it is exactly midnight, therefore time cannot be directly observed, only elapse of time.

Even if it could be shown that exactly midnight can be expressed in some way mathematically, it would surely be an abstract formula without any numerical value? That is why I liken it to infinity that also has no measurable value either, but we can do calculations with both.
ID: 1868750 ·
rob smith
Volunteer tester

Joined: 7 Mar 03
Posts: 16678
Credit: 351,422,032
RAC: 202,359
Message 1868847 - Posted: 22 May 2017, 20:57:17 UTC

The fact that the measuring technique or tool employed is insufficient to detect the passing through the time point "midnight" does not mean that the time point "midnight" does not exist.
In your example the resolution of your tool and technique is far too course - two micro seconds is a very long time...
Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?
ID: 1868847 ·
Mr. Kevvy
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester

Joined: 15 May 99
Posts: 2143
Credit: 530,346,170
RAC: 333,561
Message 1868848 - Posted: 22 May 2017, 21:10:28 UTC

The best time resolution measurable would be Planck Time, about 5.4 x 10-44s. There would be a theoretical "exact" midnight but it couldn't of course be measured. Time is likely quantized along with space and has a slight irreducible granularity.
“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.”
ID: 1868848 ·
janneseti

Joined: 14 Oct 09
Posts: 14106
Credit: 655,366
RAC: 0
Message 1868917 - Posted: 23 May 2017, 5:08:34 UTC - in response to Message 1868848.

The best time resolution measurable would be Planck Time, about 5.4 x 10-44s. There would be a theoretical "exact" midnight but it couldn't of course be measured. Time is likely quantized along with space and has a slight irreducible granularity.

Yes. And of course. Every object in space has it's own time.
What's now for me it's not now for you.
Mind gobbling.

Or is it?
Arranging a meeting always requires two pieces of information.
Time and place.
ID: 1868917 ·
Chris S
Volunteer tester

Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 40899
Credit: 41,444,537
RAC: 369
Message 1868925 - Posted: 23 May 2017, 6:46:32 UTC

There would be a theoretical "exact" midnight but it couldn't of course be measured.
That is exactly what Rob is also saying. That in theory there will be an EXACT point of midnight, but that it couldn't be measured by any tools or techniques that we currently have.

It still seems to me that time will instantaneously change from before midnight to after midnight, with no exact midnight being possible. But it seems I am wrong, and I'm still not sure why!!

A similar conundrum is this. Take a piston in a car engine, is there ever a time at the top if its stroke that the piston is stationary? In theory no, because the exact moment it reaches the top of its stroke, it will begin its down stroke. In practice there will be a running clearance between the gudgeon pin and its bearing. The con rod will pull down through that clearance before moving the piston itself. Again, at 5000rpm we don't have the tools to measure whether that is true or not.

But the point is that for all practical day to day purposes, if an accurate clock indicates midnight then it IS midnight. The same for Achilles, I/2 an inch behind the bus he hops on it, 1/2 an inch behind the tortoise he steps over it. pistons keep moving, and Infinity is simply never ending. Let the philosophers and scientists worry about anything else.
ID: 1868925 ·
Wiggo "Socialist"

Joined: 24 Jan 00
Posts: 15142
Credit: 196,503,153
RAC: 52,935
Message 1868928 - Posted: 23 May 2017, 7:23:32 UTC

Now that some silly geese have made a mess here how about trying to out smart Stephen Hawkings then, Black holes could be portals to a PARALLEL UNIVERSE.

Quite frankly I'm glad that scientists have an optimistic view of things to achieve wonders other than those here who have a constant pessimistic outlook which gets us nowhere.

Yes you know that I'm talking about you.

Cheers.
ID: 1868928 ·
1 % Main, 99 % Beta (Avoid Linux, at all costs)
Volunteer tester

Joined: 1 Nov 08
Posts: 7346
Credit: 45,405,556
RAC: 5,956
Message 1868929 - Posted: 23 May 2017, 7:28:38 UTC

Incredible how a thread can degenerate.......
ID: 1868929 ·
Wiggo "Socialist"

Joined: 24 Jan 00
Posts: 15142
Credit: 196,503,153
RAC: 52,935
Message 1868930 - Posted: 23 May 2017, 7:33:32 UTC - in response to Message 1868929.

Incredible how a thread can degenerate.......

It's also unbelievable how some others here have also degenerated with age Sten (unlike us), they were fairly bright once upon a time, but sadly senility seems to have overtaken them. ;-)

Cheers.
ID: 1868930 ·
janneseti

Joined: 14 Oct 09
Posts: 14106
Credit: 655,366
RAC: 0
Message 1868931 - Posted: 23 May 2017, 7:36:18 UTC - in response to Message 1868928.

Now that some silly geese have made a mess here how about trying to out smart Stephen Hawkings then, Black holes could be portals to a PARALLEL UNIVERSE.
Quite frankly I'm glad that scientists have an optimistic view of things to achieve wonders other than those here who have a constant pessimistic outlook which gets us nowhere.
Yes you know that I'm talking about you.
Cheers.

Hawkings said: "Things can get out of a black hole, both from the outside and possibly through another universe."
Not a parallel universe that was coined by Hugh Everett III.
There is a huge difference between the two concepts.
There is also one third or more concept but that is off topic.
ID: 1868931 ·
Wiggo "Socialist"

Joined: 24 Jan 00
Posts: 15142
Credit: 196,503,153
RAC: 52,935
Message 1868932 - Posted: 23 May 2017, 7:39:18 UTC

It can't get anymore off topic than it is already Janne. ;-)

Cheers.
ID: 1868932 ·
janneseti

Joined: 14 Oct 09
Posts: 14106
Credit: 655,366
RAC: 0
Message 1868935 - Posted: 23 May 2017, 7:50:09 UTC - in response to Message 1868932.

It can't get anymore off topic than it is already Janne. ;-)
Cheers.

When it comes to universes nothing is off topic.