Are Galactic Civilizations Possible?

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Message 1831552 - Posted: 20 Nov 2016, 6:23:15 UTC

Aprox 30 Minutes YouTube Video:
Are Galactic Civilizations Possible? | Matt O'Dowd | PBSDS Nerd Night 2016

Published on Nov 18, 2016
Matt O'Dowd, host of PBS Space Time, poses the question of whether galactic civilizations are truly possible and what limitations this technological breakthrough would present.


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Message 1831560 - Posted: 20 Nov 2016, 12:53:26 UTC - in response to Message 1831552.  
Last modified: 20 Nov 2016, 13:46:33 UTC

For one thing, look at possible energy production respective or versus that of energy consumption for such a thing.

Before continuing, I almost forgot the Drake equation, which is coming from an astronomer having a knowledge about the subject.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

Next assume possible levels of intelligence as being defined by the Kardashev scale.

Third, look at possible similar levels of development when it comes to technology and its related or intended use.

If a certain thing is not supposed to be hypothetical, we could also be dealing with a couple of things related to both the regular or usual ones of those which are dealing with both sociology, including cultural factors and the usual way of living the day of your life, at least when it comes to being a human.

Technology and intelligence supposedly goes hand in hand, but the results being learnt or obtained by means of carrying out science are next based on the "Scientific Method".

When carrying out science, any results being received could next become a small part of the Standard Model, because this model is based on possibly being able to make a similar separation or difference between what could be thought of as either "true" or "false" when it comes to a given method.

We are not supposed to question Logic itself, but rather any results being obtained when they could be of any significance, or value.

This is the reason why both a particle physicist dealing with the subject of elementary particles, as well as a cosmologist really should adhere to both these principles, because there should be no alternative to a given lie.

Regardless or whether or not anything related to this subject could be poplularized in any way, the fact is that a couple of given subjects should be approached by means of an attitude which could appear or seem to be appropriate.

Therefore, a notion about possible extraterrestrial intelligence could therefore be having the meaning "Little Green Men", or the similar, in the lack of anything else, or better.

Look at ourselves as human beings and we next should know that there could be at least two possible approaches when it comes to our understanding of nature, or perhaps the Universe.

One, which is that of both the theories of Relativity as given by Albert Einstein, as well as the mentioned Standard Model and also the Scientific Method.

The other one, which is a little more subtle, is that of a possible different approach by means of the subject of abstract thinking, which could be dealing with subjects related to that of Metaphysics, rather than the physical world we are supposed to be part of.

For now, our models related to a given understanding, is more likely a given knowledge about our physical world based on a given knowledge when it comes to the properties of nature as being explained by means of science.

Therefore we are once again back to both the Standard Model as well as the Scientific Method in order for a given understanding.

If we are ever supposed to be speaking about science, or dealing with such a thing, it is not supposed to be any speculative science in a similar way, because at least a different notion related to the subject of Religion and Faith could at times be making you able to do such a thing and then it is most likely not science.

The fact is that a possible technological approach when it comes to the question about possible galactic civilizations could in fact be found by watching a movie like Star Wars (three part sequel).

Here the Empire supposedly represents a Type III civilization, while the rebellion, or perhaps Freedom Fighters could be a Type I or II civilization in comparison, or contrast.

Also there should be a fact that many astronomers dealing with the subject of extraterrestrial intelligence are probably making a difference between such things like orbs, rods, critters and the like and that of a possible intelligent signal which could be detected coming from space, giving an indication that we are not alone.

This because of the fact that we are still making a difference between nature itself and the possible civilizations which could be part of such a nature and next be adhering to the Laws and Equations as given by the Universe.

And here we are not necessarily speaking of neither microcosmos, or macrocosmos alone, but perhaps could be able to make the Universe a general concept or notion when it comes to both these worlds.

The fact is that when doing such a thing, both the elementary particles of microcosmos, as well as the galaxies and clusters of galaxies making up macrocosmos should represent our view of the Universe as the whole and next be the way we think that parts of this whole concept better should be interpreted.

Even technology may not always or necessarily be a given or complete answer to all questions which could be around, because a given question not only needs a corresponding or given answer, but also a similar or given approach when it comes to dealing with the question itself.

For such a thing, we could possibly be back at both the Standard Model and the Scientific Method as mentioned above, but the true fact is that such a thing most likely may not be true either.
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Message 1831567 - Posted: 20 Nov 2016, 13:51:01 UTC
Last modified: 20 Nov 2016, 13:54:21 UTC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A02hFfRqigM

Skip the beginning of the video, which is quite long and rather go a bit forward.

Because here you could be fooled at the start, but this time it did not happen with me.

Still watching, I do not have the start of the main sequence, but here a couple of things of interest could possibly be found.

Upload is still stuck because of the weekend break, but I finished the remaining tasks.

Edit: Meant somewhere else for this one. I rather should go to bed.

Back later.
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Message 1831600 - Posted: 20 Nov 2016, 17:08:51 UTC

The speaker in the linked video maintains that the speed of light in an absolute limit for travel and communications. This would make a galactic civilization essentially impossible. That's a notably unimaginative point of view. Ironic that he should evoke the work of Albert Einstein as the basis of his conclusion, when it was Einstein himself who said that imagination was more Important than knowledge.
The speaker has a good deal of information at his command; that can not be denied. The fact that our current knowledge does not contain a proven means of working around the light speed limit is not the equivalent of knowing that such a thing is impossible. If there is a means by which the light speed limit can be gotten around, it is imaginative thinking that will find it, not an attitude that what we think we know today will stand for all time.
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Message 1831631 - Posted: 20 Nov 2016, 21:48:52 UTC - in response to Message 1831600.  

The speaker in the linked video maintains that the speed of light in an absolute limit for travel and communications. This would make a galactic civilization essentially impossible. That's a notably unimaginative point of view. Ironic that he should evoke the work of Albert Einstein as the basis of his conclusion, when it was Einstein himself who said that imagination was more Important than knowledge.
The speaker has a good deal of information at his command; that can not be denied. The fact that our current knowledge does not contain a proven means of working around the light speed limit is not the equivalent of knowing that such a thing is impossible. If there is a means by which the light speed limit can be gotten around, it is imaginative thinking that will find it, not an attitude that what we think we know today will stand for all time.

It may not be an imaginative point of view but it could still be the most accurate one. If the speed of light is an absolute speed limit for travel and communication we will be severely restricted in our quest to be an interstellar civilization.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
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Message 1831664 - Posted: 21 Nov 2016, 1:16:54 UTC

A number of things we now take for granted were once held to be impossible by science.
Heavier-than-air flight was ridiculed by Lord Kelvin. The possibility of spaceflight was widely denounced. Dr. Einstein found, in 1934, no reasonable possibility that energy could be extracted from the atom. (his imagination must have failed him, that time!). I recommend the linked article, below for a longer list and additional details.

The point of all this is-- the technological limits the best minds have set for us have be surpassed, again and again. I see no reason why it shouldn't be possible to do so in the future, where practical interstellar travel and communications is concerned.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13556-10-impossibilities-conquered-by-science/
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Message 1831681 - Posted: 21 Nov 2016, 2:38:55 UTC

I grew up watching Star Trek, Star Wars and Battlestar Galactica and later on Babylon 5 was my favorite space program. So I hope and wish as much as anyone that a way to travel across the galaxy is discovered, but now that I am in my late 60's I have also learned that wishing something is possible doesn't necessarily make it happen. Most of the things that are now considered possible when it comes to FTL travel also come with an almost impossible energy requirement and I doubt that a ZPM as described in Stargate SG1 will ever be invented by a human from earth. Maybe some civilization out amongst the stars has made this achievement and will hand it down to us.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
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Michael Watson

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Message 1831685 - Posted: 21 Nov 2016, 4:08:47 UTC
Last modified: 21 Nov 2016, 4:09:50 UTC

I agree, wishing won't make it happen. There's been some serious work in this direction, both theoretical and experimental. Some of this seems to suggest that the energy problem can be addressed in several ways.

I don't minimize the work that could be required to make some sort of space warp practical, or the time it might take. I do suspect that given time, which some civilizations in space very probably have had in abundance, the problem may be solvable.
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Message 1833913 - Posted: 3 Dec 2016, 19:27:18 UTC - in response to Message 1831685.  

I'm reminded of another era, when most people thought the Big Book of Physics was all but written. All they really had to do was figure out that pesky thing called the ether. Fast-forward... Anyone see my cup of dark matter? I'm sure I left it right here...

I'd gently suggest that we be very careful about what we "know" is or isn't possible. [/i]
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Message 1833924 - Posted: 3 Dec 2016, 20:43:43 UTC - in response to Message 1833913.  

Welcome to the forum, Sparrow45. Reasoned speculation about what may be possible in the future, or for more technically accomplished civilizations, right now, could be an engine of progress for us.
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Message 1833927 - Posted: 3 Dec 2016, 21:31:07 UTC - in response to Message 1833924.  
Last modified: 3 Dec 2016, 21:31:38 UTC

Thanks for the welcome, Michael, and I agree with you completely. As a charter member of POEM (Professional Organization of English Majors), I tend to parse things a little too much and use yes-but too often. So when I hear things described as "impossible" my knee jerks, and sometimes I even start drooling a little. And of course speculation is always fun, at the very least. Namaste.
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