That is about 3 a DAY.

And what should the rate be. Remember that includes the far too common ordinary use the government credit card to buy ... report high to work ...

The the Feds employ 1% of the population, given the US crime rate, 3 a day may be a much lower percent than what you should expect! Remember drug busts run faster than one a minute!

As I have said, the actual per-capita rate does not matter. About 3 Federal convictions a day is enough to create, in the minds of the Public, the perception of widespread Government corruption.

And fears based on perceived threats are JUST AS VALID as those based on actual threats.

I think you mean imagined threats, as to become a fear, a threat must be perceived.

The label "valid" appears to serve no purpose if one suggests, as you appear to, all fears are valid.

You also appear to be making leaps that are not supported by the survey with respect to corruption. As far as I can tell, all that can be said is that a majority of the public have a fear of corruption; whether the public is aware of the conviction rate is unknown (nor is it known whether the fear would increase or decrease were this information provided to participants prior to being surveyed), whether this majority believe corruption is widespread is also unknown.

Oy....

First, ALL fears are valid to those that have them. My use of the term 'valid' was in an attempt to argue against those that say that fears based on 'imaginary' threats are somehow less valid.

Thanks for restating your position that the term "valid" does not add anything meaningful to the term "fear". I did not say that an imagined threat was somehow less valid, though, it is conceivable that the approach to address such threats may be different than those taken to address actual threats.

I have linked three studies/polls so far in the thread:

1. https://blogs.chapman.edu/wilkinson/2016/10/11/americas-top-fears-2016/

Fear 	Fear Domain 	% Afraid or Very Afraid
Corrupt government officials 	Government 	60.6

2. http://ethics.harvard.edu/blog/measuring-illegal-and-legal-corruption-american-states-some-results-safra

According to the Justice Department, in the last two decades more than 20,000 public officials and private individuals were convicted for crimes related to corruption and more than 5,000 are awaiting trial

or

3. http://www.gallup.com/poll/185759/widespread-government-corruption.aspx

Three in four Americans (75%) last year perceived corruption as widespread in the country's government. This figure is up from two in three in 2007 (67%) and 2009 (66%).

To which one are you referring?

I was responding to the 60.6% in the latest survey. Apologies, I missed that the gallup survey included the term "widespread".

As I have said, the exact rate of conviction is not material to the discussion. That there are news reports of enough cases being investigated, which when combined with news reports of convictions, are enough to convince many/most reasonable people that there is a problem IS material. They are, after all, being bombarded by these news reports (from somewhere or another in the nation) on almost a daily basis, depending on their source of news... (Newspapers, cable news channels, and online, quite a lot... Traditional newscasts on the old big-3 networks (ABC, CBS, NBC)... not so much).

What systematic collection of data supports what you say about the exact rate of convictions?

As I have said, bobby...

The Exact Rate of Convictions is not important. That they happen often enough to distress the Public is important.

#2 states that 20,000 convictions over 20 years... That is about 3 a day (a bit less than that but close to 3). That is quite often enough to convince the public that it is a widespread problem (per #3) as also reported in #1.

Clear?

---

https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.

[...]
1. https://blogs.chapman.edu/wilkinson/2016/10/11/americas-top-fears-2016/
[...[
2. http://ethics.harvard.edu/blog/measuring-illegal-and-legal-corruption-american-states-some-results-safra
[...]
3. http://www.gallup.com/poll/185759/widespread-government-corruption.aspx
[...]

What systematic collection of data supports what you say about the exact rate of convictions?

As I have said, bobby...

The Exact Rate of Convictions is not important. That they happen often enough to distress the Public is important.

#2 states that 20,000 convictions over 20 years... That is about 3 a day (a bit less than that but close to 3). That is quite often enough to convince the public that it is a widespread problem (per #3) as also reported in #1.

Clear?

Yes, it is clear that your answer to the question posed is "None". The rest of your answer is "hand waving" to disguise that fact. Thanks.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Good grief!

The survey is well explained.

point one: Given more time and money, a larger sample than the 1,500 would be more meaningful especially with so many inter-related catagories.

point two: I'm still worried about people who fear ghosts and zombies. They need special help.

Good grief!

The survey is well explained.

point one: Given more time and money, a larger sample than the 1,500 would be more meaningful especially with so many inter-related catagories.

point two: I'm still worried about people who fear ghosts and zombies. They need special help.

I guess there are three categories of perceived threat, actual, imagined, and imaginary. I've no idea how the third is addressed.

But please, fear of zombies is valid (just as all fears are), just because the object feared is supernatural, does not reduce the perception of that fear, just ask anyone that subscribes to the notion of there being sulphur smelling demons walking amongst us.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Good grief!

The survey is well explained.

point one: Given more time and money, a larger sample than the 1,500 would be more meaningful especially with so many inter-related catagories.

point two: I'm still worried about people who fear ghosts and zombies. They need special help.

I guess there are three categories of perceived threat, actual, imagined, and imaginary. I've no idea how the third is addressed.

But please, fear of zombies is valid (just as all fears are), just because the object feared is supernatural, does not reduce the perception of that fear, just ask anyone that subscribes to the notion of there being sulphur smelling demons walking amongst us.

Supernatural i.e., "not of Nature" = suspending belief in reality = religiousity = an acceptance without proof or empirical evidence = FAITH

Therefore I would postulate that fear of zombies, ghosts and sulphure smellings deamons are Faith Based Fears

note: there is evidence that sulphure smelling deamons follow the dog around on occasion, but that is still just a theory.

Good grief!

The survey is well explained.

point one: Given more time and money, a larger sample than the 1,500 would be more meaningful especially with so many inter-related catagories.

point two: I'm still worried about people who fear ghosts and zombies. They need special help.

I guess there are three categories of perceived threat, actual, imagined, and imaginary. I've no idea how the third is addressed.

But please, fear of zombies is valid (just as all fears are), just because the object feared is supernatural, does not reduce the perception of that fear, just ask anyone that subscribes to the notion of there being sulphur smelling demons walking amongst us.

Supernatural i.e., "not of Nature" = suspending belief in reality = religiousity = an acceptance without proof or empirical evidence = FAITH

Therefore I would postulate that fear of zombies, ghosts and sulphure smellings deamons are Faith Based Fears

note: there is evidence that sulphure smelling deamons follow the dog around on occasion, but that is still just a theory.

All true, though you omitted the word valid (or should that be VALID?).

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

[...]
1. https://blogs.chapman.edu/wilkinson/2016/10/11/americas-top-fears-2016/
[...[
2. http://ethics.harvard.edu/blog/measuring-illegal-and-legal-corruption-american-states-some-results-safra
[...]
3. http://www.gallup.com/poll/185759/widespread-government-corruption.aspx
[...]

What systematic collection of data supports what you say about the exact rate of convictions?

As I have said, bobby...

The Exact Rate of Convictions is not important. That they happen often enough to distress the Public is important.

#2 states that 20,000 convictions over 20 years... That is about 3 a day (a bit less than that but close to 3). That is quite often enough to convince the public that it is a widespread problem (per #3) as also reported in #1.

Clear?

Yes, it is clear that your answer to the question posed is "None". The rest of your answer is "hand waving" to disguise that fact. Thanks.

bobby,

What is the exact point you are trying to make?

Is it:

1. The Government in the USA is not corrupt at all?

2. While there might be some small level of corruption in the Government in the USA, it is not enough to concern 3 out of 4 US Citizens?

3. You are attacking what I am saying because I am the one saying it?

Which is it?

I have produced 3 polls/studies that deal with the subject.

I have stated that fear, being an emotion, is not Rational.

I have also stated an explanation that is likely true of why 3/4th of the American people fear Government Corruption. (Media coverage of Government Corruption keeps it in the minds of the American people).

What is your issue?

---

https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.

Yep, reform your corrupt 2 party political system 1st, then fix that way outdated constitution to reflect the modern world 2nd, look for a better national anthem 3rd and then you people over there may get rid of your silly phobias. ;-)
Cheers.

#1 - American Constitution is better than the 'Modern' EU.
#2 - The American Constitution was Framed to prevent both Mob Rule (KKK and Progressive Type Movements), and Consolidation of Power (Modern Global Capitalism).

I wonder why the survey didn't have Modern Global Capitalism as an option of fear.
Not even governments can or sometimes will regulate it.
It's like having an open door to corruption.

Yep, reform your corrupt 2 party political system 1st, then fix that way outdated constitution to reflect the modern world 2nd, look for a better national anthem 3rd and then you people over there may get rid of your silly phobias. ;-)
Cheers.

#1 - American Constitution is better than the 'Modern' EU.
#2 - The American Constitution was Framed to prevent both Mob Rule (KKK and Progressive Type Movements), and Consolidation of Power (Modern Global Capitalism).

I wonder why the survey didn't have Modern Global Capitalism as an option of fear.
Not even governments can or sometimes will regulate it.
It's like having an open door to corruption.

That spot was taken by the more pressing Fear of Zombies.

[...]
1. https://blogs.chapman.edu/wilkinson/2016/10/11/americas-top-fears-2016/
[...[
2. http://ethics.harvard.edu/blog/measuring-illegal-and-legal-corruption-american-states-some-results-safra
[...]
3. http://www.gallup.com/poll/185759/widespread-government-corruption.aspx
[...]

What systematic collection of data supports what you say about the exact rate of convictions?

As I have said, bobby...

The Exact Rate of Convictions is not important. That they happen often enough to distress the Public is important.

#2 states that 20,000 convictions over 20 years... That is about 3 a day (a bit less than that but close to 3). That is quite often enough to convince the public that it is a widespread problem (per #3) as also reported in #1.

Clear?

Yes, it is clear that your answer to the question posed is "None". The rest of your answer is "hand waving" to disguise that fact. Thanks.

bobby,

What is the exact point you are trying to make?

Is it:

1. The Government in the USA is not corrupt at all?

2. While there might be some small level of corruption in the Government in the USA, it is not enough to concern 3 out of 4 US Citizens?

3. You are attacking what I am saying because I am the one saying it?

Which is it?

I have produced 3 polls/studies that deal with the subject.

I have stated that fear, being an emotion, is not Rational.

I have also stated an explanation that is likely true of why 3/4th of the American people fear Government Corruption. (Media coverage of Government Corruption keeps it in the minds of the American people).

What is your issue?

The issue is that your explanations are not supported by the evidence you provided. You appear to be conflating your evidence with your opinion. An instance of this issues is "The Exact Rate of Convictions is not important" which is not a fact, though is presented as one.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

The issue is that your explanations are not supported by the evidence you provided. You appear to be conflating your evidence with your opinion. An instance of this issues is "The Exact Rate of Convictions is not important" which is not a fact, though is presented as one.

Well, it is not important to the subject.... fact.

The subject being:

"The #1 fear of The American People is Government Corruption".

Fear is not Rational, but an emotion.

One instance of Government Corruption is enough to plant the concept into the minds of the American People.

<KWSN-MajorKong scowls at Tricky Dick>

Yet, we frequently hear reports in the news of Government Corruption, at all levels, everything from a local police officer being 'on the take' all the way up.

About 1000 Federal Convictions a year is enough to heat the pot until it boils over, don't you think?

The exact rate of convictions for Government Corruption is not important to the existence of the irrational fear of Government Corruption.

Understand?

---

https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.

Yep, reform your corrupt 2 party political system 1st, then fix that way outdated constitution to reflect the modern world 2nd, look for a better national anthem 3rd and then you people over there may get rid of your silly phobias. ;-)
Cheers.

#1 - American Constitution is better than the 'Modern' EU.
#2 - The American Constitution was Framed to prevent both Mob Rule (KKK and Progressive Type Movements), and Consolidation of Power (Modern Global Capitalism).

I wonder why the survey didn't have Modern Global Capitalism as an option of fear.
Not even governments can or sometimes will regulate it.
It's like having an open door to corruption.

Its effects are presented in the survey.


1. Not having enough money for the future: 39.9%.
2. Economic/Financial Collapse: 37.5%.
3. Becoming Unemployed: 24.6%.

Likely several others.

I will partially agree with you.

The combination of Capitalism and Centralized Government's (ab)use of power in support of specific businesses at the expense of others is like having an open door to corruption.

---

https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.

The exact rate of convictions for Government Corruption is not important to the existence of the irrational fear of Government Corruption.

Understand?

Given that about 10% of those surveyed had a fear of zombies, I suspect this formulation, that the fear will continue to exist in some sections even if the threat were eliminated, is likely correct (even if not substantiated by any survey data).

As you note, fear is not rational, nor is happiness, and it is quite possible that a majority of Americans are both happy with the current levels of government corruption, and fearful of it.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Yep, reform your corrupt 2 party political system 1st, then fix that way outdated constitution to reflect the modern world 2nd, look for a better national anthem 3rd and then you people over there may get rid of your silly phobias. ;-)
Cheers.

#1 - American Constitution is better than the 'Modern' EU.
#2 - The American Constitution was Framed to prevent both Mob Rule (KKK and Progressive Type Movements), and Consolidation of Power (Modern Global Capitalism).

I wonder why the survey didn't have Modern Global Capitalism as an option of fear.
Not even governments can or sometimes will regulate it.
It's like having an open door to corruption.

That spot was taken by the more pressing Fear of Zombies.

On the other hand, zombies, ghosts, aliens are reasonably widespread features of popular culture, so the survey may be attempting to measure these (to some) unrealistic threats. Another feature of popular culture that may be a little more grounded is government surveillance.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Another feature of popular culture that may be a little more grounded is government surveillance.

Yes. Should we be afraid to being surveilled by a government?
We have always been but now with new technology we are even more surveilled.
"If you don't do something wrong, why worry?"
That's the excuse we usually hear.

Well. Trying to console myself with this quote.
“Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself”

Another feature of popular culture that may be a little more grounded is government surveillance.

Yes. Should we be afraid to being surveilled by a government?
We have always been but now with new technology we are even more surveilled.
"If you don't do something wrong, why worry?"
That's the excuse we usually hear.

The fear is some nimwit will think you have done something wrong and you haven't.

---

The fear is some nimwit will think you have done something wrong and you haven't.

Unfortunately, the Nimwit's (Dimwits?) are running all Governments.

At every level from the top down to the bottom.

---

Did that list include the fear of Trump winning, with people saying they are looking to head North.

---

Trump winning?
But that is what I think most americans fear the most.
According to polls that is.