MajorKong...

My pick, while holding my nose, of Biden. Reflects the sorry state of our major parties.

Trump, unlike Politician Biden, really means what he says.

My opinion of Trumps threat, repeated two days ago, to deport millions of Illegal Aliens. Will, by necessity, result in the greatest destruction of our Freedoms.

Much more dangerous to us. Than making Illegal Aliens, Legal. Excepting Criminals, of course.

Regarding my response to Personal Attacks:

My bad. Just a result of growing up as a Street Kid: Fight or Die.

Will attempt to take your, and MOD's advise, to ignore these types.

Will also fail at times :(

Clyde,

How so? The point remains that they are here in the USA illegally. They have broken the law.

Now then, we COULD do what Mexico used to do when it would catch people sneaking in across THEIR southern border... Give them 10 years at hard labor in their prisons...

But, I think just deporting them and remembering their names/biometrics so they can not ever get back in would be enough... No need to spend the money to imprison them...

Now then, that said... I DO think that immigration law badly needs some reform. Re-work the quotas to more closely match those that wish to come here and be a US Citizen... Also perhaps increasing the total number...

And for those that just wish to come here and work for a while then return home, I totally support a guest worker program.

However, the law is the law, and until it is changed, it needs to be obeyed. In this, it seems, I agree with Trump, but maybe not for the same reasons.

I approach the subject from a 'rule of law' perspective. He likely is approaching it from a 'pandering for votes' perspective.

Perhaps I might better understand your perspective if you would explain just exactly how deporting NON-citizen criminals (they are here in the USA illegally) will destroy the freedoms and liberties of U.S. CITIZENS? I await your response, either here or by PM at your preference.

You are not the only one around here to have used the phrase 'a-hole'.

Up until a minute ago I was quite certain I was the only one. Now I'm not so sure :)

I guess it doesn't matter. If it wasn't aimed at me then it wasn't aimed at me. Please do a mental strikethrough of all the (now) irrelevant bits in that comment.

Just the personal stuff I got wrong though. Most of the rest still stands as my opinions and/or personal beliefs (or whatever).

I believe we are at the point of saying:

We agree, to disagree.

You disagree that name-calling is puerile and unhelpful... explains a lot.

Picking and choosing, which name calling is allowed. Attacking those who Respond, and not the Original Attacker.

Isn't this as childish as saying "They started it!" I don't think that's the appropriate response. Also, perception plays a large role here. You lash out "in kind" because you perceive others have attacked you, which begs the question: why do you feel defensive all the time? I assume you must be feeling defensive all the time based upon the number of times I see you lashing out.

Means the following:

#1 - Makes my point.

#2 - Understand I am winning the Intellectual Argument.

If the Intellectual Argument is a game of schoolyard name-calling, maybe, but I'm not so sure you're winning. Wouldn't winning entail making the other person see your point of view (note I didn't say they must agree with your point of view)? Or do your comments more often than not cause more divisiveness, especially when you've openly admitted to having a bias against The Left and this so-called "outing" them? (sidenote: I wasn't aware this was some hidden "thing".)

OzzFan...

I am really enjoying The Left's squirming. Almost as much, as I enjoy The Right's squirming.

Keep it up.

/smh You and I seem to have completely different takes on what is happening here. I think it is borderline delusional if you think anyone is squirming from statements you make.

Break a couple of window glasses and you next are a problem solver.

You are not the only one around here to have used the phrase 'a-hole'.

Up until a minute ago I was quite certain I was the only one. Now I'm not so sure :)

I guess it doesn't matter. If it wasn't aimed at me then it wasn't aimed at me. Please do a mental strikethrough of all the (now) irrelevant bits in that comment.

Just the personal stuff I got wrong though. Most of the rest still stands as my opinions and/or personal beliefs (or whatever).

Alex, you are a person of strong personal convictions. I can respect that, even if I don't always agree with them.

Here in Texas, we have a saying. There is nothing in the middle of the road but yellow stripes and roadkill....




You personally stand for something, and you have the courage to publicly champion those viewpoints.

MajorKong...

My pick, while holding my nose, of Biden. Reflects the sorry state of our major parties.

Trump, unlike Politician Biden, really means what he says.

My opinion of Trumps threat, repeated two days ago, to deport millions of Illegal Aliens. Will, by necessity, result in the greatest destruction of our Freedoms.

Much more dangerous to us. Than making Illegal Aliens, Legal. Excepting Criminals, of course.

Regarding my response to Personal Attacks:

My bad. Just a result of growing up as a Street Kid: Fight or Die.

Will attempt to take your, and MOD's advise, to ignore these types.

Will also fail at times :(

Clyde,

How so? The point remains that they are here in the USA illegally. They have broken the law.

Now then, we COULD do what Mexico used to do when it would catch people sneaking in across THEIR southern border... Give them 10 years at hard labor in their prisons...

But, I think just deporting them and remembering their names/biometrics so they can not ever get back in would be enough... No need to spend the money to imprison them...

Now then, that said... I DO think that immigration law badly needs some reform. Re-work the quotas to more closely match those that wish to come here and be a US Citizen... Also perhaps increasing the total number...

And for those that just wish to come here and work for a while then return home, I totally support a guest worker program.

However, the law is the law, and until it is changed, it needs to be obeyed. In this, it seems, I agree with Trump, but maybe not for the same reasons.

I approach the subject from a 'rule of law' perspective. He likely is approaching it from a 'pandering for votes' perspective.

Perhaps I might better understand your perspective if you would explain just exactly how deporting NON-citizen criminals (they are here in the USA illegally) will destroy the freedoms and liberties of U.S. CITIZENS? I await your response, either here or by PM at your preference.

I'm going to take this in a different direction.

Passing a law making manufacturing, sale and transport of liquor illegal is about the same as our present immigration law. Such unenforceable laws cheapen our government. The more laws on the books that can't be enforced or are not enforced cause the people to believe all laws aren't enforced. This weakens the country. The same can be said of laws on weed, they aren't and can't be enforced. The people don't want them enforced, and that is the final authority. Get them off the books!

As to the undocumented, get them documents! Then the problem is solved. As to the future, guest worker and realistic quotas solves that. Head in the sand just makes it worse for everyone and makes the USA look like a fool.

As to the idiotic notion that undocumented don't pay tax, well, how do they get paid? Any farm that pays cash runs the risk of the IRS asking to see payroll records if the farmer tried to deduct the pay. If he didn't withhold payroll taxes he loses his farm.[1] So like all employers of the undocumented, the first thing he does is generate fake SS numbers. Tax gets taken out and he gets a deduction for wages paid. As they don't work for him long term, by the time he gets the notice there is a problem with the SS number they have gone on to planting or picking a different crop on a different farm. It is the ones in factory jobs where the employer has to get a real SS number/name match, or risk a raid if he has too many mismatches.

The reason we have the undocumented problem is because it suits people like Drumpf to hire them. They can pay them less than minimum wage, work them unpaid overtime, refuse them breaks and meals, never let them know there is such a thing as workers comp if they get injured, etc. It is slave labor. Nice big fat profits for people like Drumpf who hire them.[2]

Get them all documents and maybe the Drumpf's will be forced to pay enough that a few Americans might be willing to take those manual labor jobs.


[1]For payroll taxes when the IRS comes calling, if you don't pay on the spot they immediately begin asset seizure, your bank accounts can be empty by morning. The reason being is this money is the tax payment of someone else, not your own.

[2]Makes his comments about the $20 bill redesign come into focus doesn't it?

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I'm going to take this in a different direction.

Passing a law making manufacturing, sale and transport of liquor illegal is about the same as our present immigration law. Such unenforceable laws cheapen our government. The more laws on the books that can't be enforced or are not enforced cause the people to believe all laws aren't enforced. This weakens the country. The same can be said of laws on weed, they aren't and can't be enforced. The people don't want them enforced, and that is the final authority. Get them off the books!

As to the undocumented, get them documents! Then the problem is solved. As to the future, guest worker and realistic quotas solves that. Head in the sand just makes it worse for everyone and makes the USA look like a fool.

As to the idiotic notion that undocumented don't pay tax, well, how do they get paid? Any farm that pays cash runs the risk of the IRS asking to see payroll records if the farmer tried to deduct the pay. If he didn't withhold payroll taxes he loses his farm.[1] So like all employers of the undocumented, the first thing he does is generate fake SS numbers. Tax gets taken out and he gets a deduction for wages paid. As they don't work for him long term, by the time he gets the notice there is a problem with the SS number they have gone on to planting or picking a different crop on a different farm. It is the ones in factory jobs where the employer has to get a real SS number/name match, or risk a raid if he has too many mismatches.

The reason we have the undocumented problem is because it suits people like Drumpf to hire them. They can pay them less than minimum wage, work them unpaid overtime, refuse them breaks and meals, never let them know there is such a thing as workers comp if they get injured, etc. It is slave labor. Nice big fat profits for people like Drumpf who hire them.[2]

Get them all documents and maybe the Drumpf's will be forced to pay enough that a few Americans might be willing to take those manual labor jobs.

Well said .

If your going to enforce the border then having a good Tax file no. system will find illegals and as far as I'm concerned if a employer wont pay a full wage because employing them is cheaper then that is tax avoidance so a farmer or the processing plants are not innocent who , says there going to fix it

without making things worse

Sanders
Clinton
Trump
Cruz

or some outsider no one is watching ?

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If your going to enforce the border then having a good Tax file no. system will find illegals and as far as I'm concerned if a employer wont pay a full wage because employing them is cheaper then that is tax avoidance so a farmer or the processing plants are not innocent who , says there going to fix it

without making things worse

Sanders
Clinton
Trump
Cruz

or some outsider no one is watching ?

Fix it? This will not get fixed. There is too much money involved. Money buys politicians. I remember a number of politicians over the past several decades that have gotten in trouble for employing illegals, usually as housekeepers or cooks.

Money buys politicians. Government is corrupt. The status quo is too profitable for businesses and for politicians as well.

Ain't gonna get fixed. And that is a crying shame.

Kong I can understand Drumfs "build The Wall" , if only he could find the cash without a International problem ..


MMM Panama Papers thing tax avoidance ......ops Drumps a Billionaire , but he's smarter that that the company that's in trouble was the worlds 4th largest offshore manager . mmmmm reckon Drump would be with the biggest numro uno .company for shore

but I can definitely understand Americans wishing to protect there jobs , and country we feel the same with Asians and others coming by Boat

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MajorKong...

Most choices are just 'The Lesser of Evils'. As in our Illegal Immigration Problem.

My proposals are the following Four Steps, in the following order. Understanding it will never happen, and our Elected Officials are both Incompetent and Corrupt.

#1 - Build The Wall. Maybe placing Trump in charge :)

#2 - All Criminals Deported. If they re-enter: A minimum of 5 years imprisonment. Then deported again. Another re-entry: 10 years imprisonment.

#3 - All, repeating ALL Future Illegal Entries, will be a criminal offense. Requiring a minimum of one year imprisonment.

#4 - Legalize all (excepting criminals) already here. The debate regarding eventual citizenship, can take place later.

Yes, I understand, and agree with 'Rule of Law'.

But... Any attempt to implement the deportation of millions. Will require a Non-American Police State.

Clyde,

But the laws to deport them are already on the books... Passed by Congress and Signed by the then-current POTUS... It is just that successive POTUS (especially the current POTUS) have elected to either not vigorously enforce them (or in the current POTUS's case) enforce them at all...

We have laws on the books that make hiring illegal aliens be subject to civil and/or criminal penalties... They are not being vigorously enforced... same as above.

If deporting illegal aliens requires a 'non-American police state', then I submit that we already ARE a police state... a VERY corrupt one at that.

Illegal Immigration Problem

Does the US actually have an Illegal Immigration Problem?

If it does, then how big is it? I suspect, not as big as perceived.

And as reported in a PEW report, last November, More Mexicans Leaving Than Coming to the U.S., which leaves the obvious question "What is the purpose of the wall?

But the laws to deport them are already on the books... Passed by Congress and Signed by the then-current POTUS... It is just that successive POTUS (especially the current POTUS) have elected to either not vigorously enforce them (or in the current POTUS's case) enforce them at all...

We have laws on the books that make hiring illegal aliens be subject to civil and/or criminal penalties... They are not being vigorously enforced... same as above.

If deporting illegal aliens requires a 'non-American police state', then I submit that we already ARE a police state... a VERY corrupt one at that.

"especially the current POTUS" - really?

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Here's a question that would require quiet a bit of money spent moving and rehousing US citizens if the "get rid of all illegal immigrants" think it would solve the problem.

As the US unemployment figure is approx 8 million and there are approx 8 million illegal immigrants in the workforce.

Would removing the illegal immigrants solve the unemployment problem?

edit] Or put it another way, Could you say to a US citizen who wants all illegals banished, "If you go to Abctown there is a job for you, if you take it, we will repatriate the illegal doing the job at the moment?"

edit] Or put it another way, Could you say to a US citizen who wants all illegals banished, "If you go to Abctown there is a job for you, if you take it, we will repatriate the illegal doing the job at the moment?"

I think you would need to put it, move to Abctown and take the illegal's job, your welfare is cut off.

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bernie sanders? why not just ask xi jinping to appoint someone. dude's got smurf money

Actually not going to work. For one reason at least, the basic unemployment numbers don't show that half of them are short term unemployed and those probably only appear in the number for one accounting period.

In jobs requiring high skills, such as STEM subjects, there is effectively no unemployment for US citizens. In fact there is a shortage of workers and not enough green cards to fill the vacancies.

It's not much better one step down the ladder in STEM careers, although enough are educated and trained in the US, many of these are foreigners and cannot get green cards to be able to stay legally.

At the bottom end of the jobs market where many of the "illegal immigrants" are situated. Such as the 20% of all construction, agriculture and food jobs filled by "illegals", are probably only illegal because the US authorities only issue 5,000 green cards/year.

So to clear the long term Unemployment and Illegal Immigrant problems, the long term need jobs in their areas and the education/training for them. And for the "illegal immigrants" who are filling jobs where there are no US citizens available to fill them, they need to be made legal.

_____________________________________________________________________

Did you know that High Skill US companies employ over 3 million people worldwide outside of the US because a) there isn't enough trained in the US and b) they cannot get enough green cards to be enable them to live and work in the US. How do I know this, well for a period I was one of them and now my youngest is another.

edit] Or put it another way, Could you say to a US citizen who wants all illegals banished, "If you go to Abctown there is a job for you, if you take it, we will repatriate the illegal doing the job at the moment?"

I think you would need to put it, move to Abctown and take the illegal's job, your welfare is cut off

Says a lot .....work hard pay your taxes don't be a criminal and 20 years from now you will get deported back home .

Don't you have Mutual Obligation of some sort ? tightening the medical reason for not working might also help

one side of politics mite like this prove you worked 85% of your Adult working life or nanda no welfare

And prove your actually disabled by means of accident or Birth

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We are now at a point where 11,000,000,000 (or much more) Illegal Aliens, are present in our Country.

Just for the record - there are three zeros too many in that number. ;)

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We are now at a point where 11,000,000,000 (or much more) Illegal Aliens, are present in our Country.

Just for the record - there are three zeros too many in that number. ;)

Yes, it does seem to be more than the total of humans on the planet.

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Stop calling 'The People' stupid, or worse.

It seems a lot of them believe in a mythical man in the sky who will magically provide for them; when that doesn't work they demand the government fill in for the myth.

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