Do you think aliens use radio waves to communicate with each other?

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Profile Bob DeWoody
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Message 1839825 - Posted: 3 Jan 2017, 15:48:05 UTC - in response to Message 1839772.  

I already suggested that Bob! Message 1839568

I have to say that I am very sceptical about flying saucers. If they were as prolific as people suggest some time in the last 100 years one would have crashed somewhere (not Roswell!!) and been reverse engineered making mankind a lot further advanced than we are now.

For instance, look at what it takes to put a man on the moon, and bring him back. Look what it takes to make a trip to the ISS and back. We are many years away from something like the Enterprise orbiting Earth and their shuttle craft popping up and down. For this exercise I'll discount their transporter system.

My thinking behind this is that if a UFO is real, then it by default doesn't come from earth. Therefore Is it based in our Solar system even on a planet we haven't found yet? Or is it based in another star system somewhere, the nearest one being 4 LY away. Either way whoever or whatever controls them must have technology that we can only dream of, and are surprisingly a bit haphazard to say the least in exposing themselves then zapping off to avoid getting caught. Their technology would know that earthbound radars and satellites could track their performance as indeed they do.

I think that if UFO's exist they are likely to be remote controlled drones of some kind, I doubt their makers are inside them. A drone is expendable, a "person" isn't. In which case where is the mother ship?

I have no real answer to anal probes and cattle mutilations, other than to say that if they have interplanetary travel nailed down and even interstellar travel, then they would not need to be so crude to find out more about us. They would use whole body MRI scanners or more likely Bones diagnostic couches in Enterprise sick bay, maybe even what the Doctor used as a handheld in USS Voyager.

At the end of the day there is no conclusive evidence for any ET really is there, just a lot of anomalies and occurrences that we simply cannot explain. Plus of course the pseudo sci fi press that encourage it all to make a living. The possibilities are

There is no-one there
We are looking in the wrong place
We are using the wrong search tools
They don't want to be found.

Given the vastness of interstellar space it is likely that there are others out there somewhere, but so far away that neither of us will ever know that the other exists. Earth is 4.5 Billion years old, at best guess we believe the observable universe that we can detect is about 13.8 billion years old. WE are the teenagers on the block. It would be like putting a fish in the Atlantic at England and one at New York, and hoping that one day they might meet up!!

OK, I see now that you touched on the idea briefly. Sometimes it is hard in a thread like this one that has become full of off topic chatter and ramblings that have nothing to do with the original subject.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
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Message 1839826 - Posted: 3 Jan 2017, 15:49:38 UTC

Meat--I love it! :)
“Upon opening the box, Schroedinger's raccoon will be observed in one of three possible states; alive, dead, or really, really pissed off.”
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Message 1839913 - Posted: 4 Jan 2017, 13:10:17 UTC - in response to Message 1839826.  

Meat--I love it! :)


I'm glad you enjoyed "Meat." I've no idea where I found it. I came across it a long time ago, maybe in a galaxy far far away? :) I wish I could say I wrote it, but I didn't.

Have a nice day!


Stay here on Earth. It's the only planet with DARK CHOCOLATE !!
River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth)
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Message 1840205 - Posted: 5 Jan 2017, 19:54:31 UTC
Last modified: 5 Jan 2017, 20:23:15 UTC

A "Corollary" on SETI versus "Flying Saucers"

COROLLARY:
1
: a proposition inferred immediately from a proved proposition with little or no additional proof.

2
a : something that naturally follows : result b : something that incidentally or naturally accompanies or parallels.

=========================================

Recently, within the past week or two, I recounted an event and posted it to this group. It described, in detail, how I and hundreds of others witnessed a "flying saucer." This occurred in broad daylight, in the summer of 1952, at White City Beach, on the shores of Lake Erie, in Cleveland, Ohio.

While I was not met with outright derision, uproarious laughter, or accused of making the post from a padded room in an asylum, my reporting was greeted with, what I could best describe as "the sound of one hand clapping."

Because of the silence from my peers, I posted above the definition of a COROLLARY. I would like those who may question my sanity to, in turn, question their own?

My premise is this: Based on what is said above, i.e, the following,

a : something that naturally follows : result b : something that incidentally or naturally accompanies or parallels.

I have to presume, i.e., make the assumption, that all of you participate in the SETI program because you believe in the possibility of extraterrestrial life? Else, WHY are you here, and why does your PC labor 24/7 hoping to hear an intelligent signal from deep space?

Given that you are a true SETI supporter, it then naturally follows that, by believing in the possibility of extraterrestrial life, that you MUST then believe in the possibility that there ARE extraterrestrial civilizations "out there?"

Furthermore, given the above two suppositions, you must also be aware that our planet Earth is roughly one-half the age of the known universe? This then means there could be extraterrestrial civilizations "out there" MUCH older than ours? Maybe even billions of years older?

Why is it SO impossible to doubt the possibility of "flying saucers" and that they have visited Earth in years past? Perhaps the derision comes from the use of the phrase "flying saucers?" This phrase is unfortunate in that it sounds almost "comic-like." Perhaps, way back, if the phrase "unknown spacecraft," "disc shaped flying objects," or some such, had been used in place of "flying saucers," it would have engendered less disdain?

Naturally, it is VERY likely that the great majority of reported sightings of these "disks" were not real, and that they were indeed "weather balloons," "cloud formations," etc. The large number of false sightings created a huge number of non-believers, who laughed, as did people further back who laughed at being told the Earth was not flat. But, it is quite reasonable, IMHO, that at least 1% of the sightings were REAL. Because of the very large number of phony sightings, it's easy to understand why many laugh at the thought of "flying saucers." But, the 1% of unidentifieds are most likely those reported by military and commercial airline pilots. These pilots certainly can tell a "weather balloon" from a flying disk under intelligent control?

Another point raised by many non-believers is that "they make no sound and therefore they can't exist." Consider the following: Our spacecraft, including the ones that went to the moon, Mars, and beyond, are all powered by liquid fuels. Do you REALLY think aliens, flying ships reported to be from 50 to 100 feet in diameter, have room to carry "million gallon fuel tanks?" Of course not. Mankind, if it doesn't blow itself up in an atomic war, will NEVER reach the stars in ships requiring gigantic liquid fuel tanks. Because the flying disks, small in size, and not likely originating in our solar system, they have to come from another star, and their propulsion systems have to be something that doesn't shoot "streams of hot gas" out of a tailpipe! They HAVE to use something different. It most likely is some form of "anti-gravity," "magnetism," or some such, something NOT involving a liquid fuel; this type propulsion system would be quiet and fit the descriptions given by many. They also have had to discover HOW to either exceed the speed of light AND/OR pass thru a "worm hole."

I hope this 'dissertation,' or 'cathartic endeavor,' promotes constructive criticism and thought provoking comments and ideas in return? :) It will be my pleasure

Stay here on Earth. It's the only planet with DARK CHOCOLATE !!
River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth)
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Message 1840243 - Posted: 6 Jan 2017, 0:28:32 UTC
Last modified: 6 Jan 2017, 0:48:34 UTC

Somewhere between 10 and 20 percent of UFO sightings can not identified after scrutiny and analysis. This is not to say that insufficient data was available to identify them, if they were conventional objects or phenomena. The data for the persistently unidentifiable objects was found to be at least as complete as for those that could be identified.

Sonic booms are typically caused by shockwaves, created by airfoils (wings) of aircraft exceeding the speed of sound. If an object rises in the air by other means than aerodynamic lift, there would be no necessity for wings. The shape of a non-aerodynamic flying machine could be such that it creates no shock waves, or only such minor ones as to escape our notice.
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Message 1840245 - Posted: 6 Jan 2017, 0:46:46 UTC

I don't question your sanity, and I think we in SETI@Home are probably one of the more accepting groups when it comes to UFO reports or discussions because we do, as you rightly point out, obviously believe in the likelihood or at least the possibility of other technical civilizations. But I think most of us have some grounding in science, and science is by nature skeptical. I would say it's entirely possible that some UFOs are indeed alien spacecraft. But there's no way to test that idea or investigate further, because the don't talk to us or stick around to be examined. As ever, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and we don't have any.

I agree with you that silent operation proves nothing either way. If some of these are spacecraft, they are operating with drives we don't begin to understand. As far as I know, radar doesn't have much luck picking these things up. So silent operation, at least a subsonic speeds, doesn't seem much of a stretch.
“Upon opening the box, Schroedinger's raccoon will be observed in one of three possible states; alive, dead, or really, really pissed off.”
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Message 1840285 - Posted: 6 Jan 2017, 6:05:55 UTC

Sonic booms don't always happen (at ground level) when an aircraft flies overhead at supersonic speeds. Where the shock wave goes, its exact shape and intensity depend on a lot of factors including atmospheric temperature profile, wind profile, attitude of the aircraft, ground profile, instantaneous flight profile, shape of aircraft etc. Indeed the number of times I've not heard the boom from a supersonic overflight is probably greater than the number of times I've actually heard one.
Bob Smith
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Message 1840302 - Posted: 6 Jan 2017, 8:46:20 UTC - in response to Message 1840245.  

I think your post makes a lot of sense.

If there are ET craft operating within earths atmosphere, they will have got here either on their own or via a mother ship and likely utilising FTL technology. Their drives will be nothing we understand, and they would likely use stealth technology anyway. All major governments have files on UFO occurrences reported and confirmed by reliable witnesses that simply defy explanation.

They could be genuine ET UFO's they may not be, we just don't know at our current level of technology. All Governments and security agencies simply have to keep an open mind, what else can they do. And nobody yet has asnswered to question why a highly advanced FTL technology species would bother with thousands of abductions. If we went to another star system would we?
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Message 1840314 - Posted: 6 Jan 2017, 10:34:29 UTC - in response to Message 1840285.  
Last modified: 6 Jan 2017, 10:53:49 UTC

I hear a sonic boom each time a whip is cracked. I heard a sonic boom when a meteorite passed directly overhead in Key West Florida. I heard a sonic boom each and every time a plane from Boca-chica Air Base flew faster than 700 MPH or so. The following photo shows a condensed vapor trail that forms when the temperature drops due to a quick drop in pressure. There's your UFO Disk which shows how atmospheric phenomena can produce a disk-like "object" and the accompanying mass hysteria. If you don't hear a boom when a hypersonic plane passes overhead it means that the object has outrun the boom which has dissipated some many miles behind it. You would always hear it if you were close to the location where the barrier was broken.

The unexplained UFO sightings are more like 5%, unless you believe that the Air Force is lying to advance the great government conspiracy. I am sure that Trump would tell us all in a tweet when our intelligence agency presents the fact that UFO's are stored at Roswell along with a few alien bodies.



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Message 1840324 - Posted: 6 Jan 2017, 11:06:39 UTC

The basic problem William is that too many people WANT there to be aliens, so they grab at every straw to promote the prospect. The press love it and make a living from it.. The second problem is that the UFO brigade don't say why they want ET to be real.

It is not all antisurgence and anti-establishment against the Governments keeping secrets from the people. Do they expect miracle cures for cancer, end to world wars, technological revolutions etc. If ET turns out to be the Borg, thanks a bunch guys!
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Message 1840350 - Posted: 6 Jan 2017, 14:18:29 UTC - in response to Message 1840302.  
Last modified: 6 Jan 2017, 14:45:43 UTC

I think your post makes a lot of sense.

If there are ET craft operating within earths atmosphere, they will have got here either on their own or via a mother ship and likely utilising FTL technology. Their drives will be nothing we understand, and they would likely use stealth technology anyway. All major governments have files on UFO occurrences reported and confirmed by reliable witnesses that simply defy explanation.

They could be genuine ET UFO's they may not be, we just don't know at our current level of technology. All Governments and security agencies simply have to keep an open mind, what else can they do. And nobody yet has asnswered to question why a highly advanced FTL technology species would bother with thousands of abductions. If we went to another star system would we?


Very interesting! You bring up many good points, and I missed the one that is, or should have been, to me, most obvious, the possibility of a "mother ship." Geez, that makes so much SENSE! These people, oops, aliens, MUST come from another star, and to do it they have to either exceed the speed of light, OR "bypass it" somehow. Maybe THAT's the secret, huh? If FTL speed is truly impossible, then there may be another way to get from there to here? Makes sense. Another thing about the idea of a mother ship is its size. Many of them could relax, in comfort, on their journey and not be cramped up in a small disk shaped "tin can." :) Also, their small saucer craft, powered by who knows what, at least doesn't have to lug around a giant fuel tank to fly. They just flip on the "anti-gravity" drive, or whats-it and go all around the Earth.

We know enough about our solar system to know, I think, for sure, that a species capable of FTL or its alternative, doesn't live around here. They surely do not come from Mars, Jupiter, Pluto, etc. Their mother ship uses a drive that doesn't need to stop at a "gas station." There are none in space. :) Our ships need fuel tanks to spew out hot gas from their exhaust, theirs do not.

As to WHY they bother to come here, and especially so often is a puzzle. The only thing I can think of is our atomic testing which started in 1945, about the time the majority of UFO sightings started. I wonder if they "picked up" on the "atomic signature" of our tests and those of the Russians? For all we know, and we know so little, an atomic blast could well send a "shock wave" far out into the universe? I seem to recall hearing somewhere that, at the center of an atomic blast, the heat reaches that of the interior of our sun? Is that true? What KIND of an electromagnetic wave could THAT generate? Maybe one strong enough to be heard a long long way? We do not know. They, our visitors, may have "heard" it and came to investigate? They may may come in self defense to put a stop to us if they felt we were so far along as to present a clear and imminent threat to life in our galaxy and beyond. It's speculation, of course, but a possible reason for their coming here at the dawn of our atomic age. Notice that in recent years atomic tests on Earth have gone way down in number, I think, and we are not seeing near as many UFO's as we did between 1945 and 1965. Interesting, huh?

I believe that most "SETI people" are on the forefront of thought in regard the existence of extraterrestrial life, else WHY are they here? Many here seem to be either engineers, like me, scientists, or others with a high level of technical knowledge. I think only a very few earn a living selling hot dogs from a cart on a street corner? That being said, why are so many seemingly afraid to think UFO's are real, and just a big joke? Instead of laughing and poking fun at the idea; they should study the subject thoroughly and with open minds, and try to fit the pieces together. The universe is TWICE the age of planet Earth, by billions of years, and the odds are there is a LOT of intelligent life far out in the older part of the universe, if not in our small corner. One should NOT hear the sound of "one hand clapping" when someone raises the subject. :)

OK, I will shut up. :) All comments and ideas are welcome. Sorry, I tend to "rattle" on at times.
River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth)
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Message 1840380 - Posted: 6 Jan 2017, 16:36:53 UTC
Last modified: 6 Jan 2017, 17:05:25 UTC

Project Orion, circa 1958 to 1964...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)


The idea of rocket propulsion by combustion of explosive substance was first proposed by Russian explosives expert Nikolai Kibalchich in 1881.

This came about because of Newton's 3rd Law of motion, to wit: "When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction on the first body." OR, to cut to the chase, "For every reaction there is an equal and opposite reaction."

A proposal, later, in the 1950's, was to propel spacecraft, using atomics, far more efficiently than by the use of chemical propellants spewing out of an exhaust pipe.

The theory behind it, which looked good on paper, was that the propulsion would occur as a reaction to tiny atomic bombs ejected out behind the craft; as each bomb exploded, the craft would be accelerated forward. Geez, huh? The name given to this was "nuclear pulse propulsion."

Two things stopped the project: one, the biggie, was the nuclear radiation each tiny blast would leave in the atmosphere, and the second was the onset of test ban treaties in the early 1960's. A workaround was proposed for the contamination of the atmosphere, and that was to use this propulsion method only in deep space.

I watch a show, called "NASA's Unexplained Mysteries," on cable. It details many sightings by our astronauts of possible UFO related events, while in earth orbit, and also 2 UFO sightings on Mars, early on, when our rover was lowered below a hovering lander to the surface to avoid damage. The UFO's purportedly saw us landing, watched us, and took off.
River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth)
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Message 1840548 - Posted: 7 Jan 2017, 5:47:09 UTC

The story of the Orion project is narrated by Freeman J.Dyson in his book "Disturbing the universe", which speaks also of space travel and colonies into space. I enjoyed reading it.
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Message 1840573 - Posted: 7 Jan 2017, 9:03:14 UTC

Oh yes I remember the proposal years ago for the Nuclear pulse engine, and wasn't there one also for a ramjet using solar wind or some such? But most of those required a slingshot around the Sun to get enough momentum to get into outer space.

In Start trek the impulse drive is typically powered by deuterium fusion reactors, in which the plasma from the fusion reactor powers a massive magnetic coil to propel the ship. It is a form of magnetohydrodynamic or magnetoplasmadynamic thruster.

The Warp drive engines are a reactor that taps the energy released in a matter-antimatter annihilation to provide the energy necessary to power a starship's warp drive, allowing faster-than-light travel. Dilithium crystals are used to regulate this reaction. The trouble is that if there is a warp core breach through containment failure, it has to be ejected to save the craft.

At present to explore even the nearest star systems would practically require a FTL drive, and at our present level of knowledge we have no way to make one. If we could construct a spaceship that could be seen as a massless photon, then in theory it could be accelerated FTL. But then we get into relativistic mass and rest mass, and it gets complicated!
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Message 1840610 - Posted: 7 Jan 2017, 12:50:07 UTC

A lot of these new propulsion ideas sound great until they get to the end of the description where they mention in passing that it would need to harness the energy of a star to make it go anywhere. No time soon I presume.
Bob DeWoody

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Message 1840621 - Posted: 7 Jan 2017, 13:41:24 UTC - in response to Message 1840573.  

Wow !!!!!!!!!!! So much history !!!!!!!!! LOVE IT.. :) Thank you, kind Sir!

Stay here on Earth. It's the only planet with DARK CHOCOLATE !!
River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth)
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Message 1840626 - Posted: 7 Jan 2017, 13:48:24 UTC - in response to Message 1840610.  
Last modified: 7 Jan 2017, 13:54:19 UTC

At our present level of technical knowledge and expected level in the the next 100 years or so, no Bob, no time soon. Unless there is a miraculous breakthrough in physics which is not expected then mankind will be restricted to exploring our solar system.

Yes in time I expect we will be abe to send a man to Mars and bring him back, at present we have enough trouble landing wheeled robots there and keeping them working. Not through lack of solar power, they didn't bother to fit windscreen wipers on the sensors because of the dust Doh!!

Elsewhere we can continue to send orbiting satellites/probes to the outer planets, not that we gain that much info from them that solves any universal riddles. Then again even with a light drive why would we want to send an 8 year return mission to the nearest star system Alpha Centauri with no evidence that any intelligent life exists there anyway?

Nope, either mankind makes a giant breakthrough, or ET shows up and tells us how. How likely is either?

I agree, stay on earth an enjoy dark chocolate :-))
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Message 1840634 - Posted: 7 Jan 2017, 14:28:30 UTC - in response to Message 1840610.  

A lot of these new propulsion ideas sound great until they get to the end of the description where they mention in passing that it would need to harness the energy of a star to make it go anywhere. No time soon I presume.


I agree, Bob. Knowing that some sort of "warp drive" is theoretically possible doesn't help very much if you need the power of a galaxy to make it work. But two drive schemes are, in fact, quite possible. Neither is FTL, but still great leaps forward. One is an ion drive, and the other is the aforementioned "nuclear pulse" drive, i.e. the Project Orion idea. The beauty of the last is that the more massive the ship is, the better the ride will be. Abandoning this concept was, IMHO, utterly stupid. The spacecraft could be assembled in low earth orbit, with international buy-in, and incorporate some other form of propulsion, as well. Remember that radiation is space isn't really a problem, as long as the ship is adequately shielded. There's an interesting fictional treatment of this idea in the Niven-Pournelle novel "Footfall". [url] https://www.amazon.com/Footfall-Larry-Niven/dp/0345323440[/url]
“Upon opening the box, Schroedinger's raccoon will be observed in one of three possible states; alive, dead, or really, really pissed off.”
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Message 1840648 - Posted: 7 Jan 2017, 15:57:51 UTC

"Second Life" Anyone?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Life

Hi All,

Wouldn't it be fun if we all could get together in our spare time and chit chat "in person?" If you haven't heard of it, 'Second Life' id the largest 3D Virtual World on planet Earth. I think it has about 13 million members worldwide? It is FREE and you can create your own personal avatar and show off your handsome self. :) All you need is a fairly good net connection and a decent graphics card.

Do a 'Google' on the name and join the fun? My name in SL (Second Life) is Linda Latte. IM me when you get there and we can meet!

Stay here on Earth. It's the only planet with DARK CHOCOLATE !!
River Song (aka Linda Latte on planet Earth)
"Happy I-Phone girl on the GO GO GO"
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Message 1856562 - Posted: 19 Mar 2017, 11:25:06 UTC - in response to Message 1840648.  

"Second Life" Anyone?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Life

Hi All,

Wouldn't it be fun if we all could get together in our spare time and chit chat "in person?" If you haven't heard of it, 'Second Life' id the largest 3D Virtual World on planet Earth. I think it has about 13 million members worldwide? It is FREE and you can create your own personal avatar and show off your handsome self. :) All you need is a fairly good net connection and a decent graphics card.

Do a 'Google' on the name and join the fun? My name in SL (Second Life) is Linda Latte. IM me when you get there and we can meet!

Stay here on Earth. It's the only planet with DARK CHOCOLATE !!


LOL! :D

Looks interesting, thanx for the heads up SL!
rOZZ
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