Did you mean the Mujahideen rather than Taliban?

Yes. It has been a long time brewing. That root would have been a much better one for me to reference. Thank you for the correction, Bobby. :-)

I'd not seen the west previously implicated in the origin of ISIL, what's the source?

A good question, Sir. It is not new knowledge to me, and how much and where that is sourced online may take me awhile to unearth. It was a tangled paperchase even then as I recall, and is likely to be even more so now. I have several long shifts coming up. If you would be gracious enough to grant me a few days, I will endeavour to provide you with what you need.

Bahh... no big deal to find it.

Roots in Iraq

ISIL has its origins in the Iraq War of 2003–11. Al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), its direct precursor, was one of the central actors in a larger Sunni insurgency against the Iraqi government and foreign occupying forces.

http://www.britannica.com/topic/Islamic-State-in-Iraq-and-the-Levant

OK.

AQI -> ISIL (From the above source, the rest is common knowledge from the news)
AQ -> AQI
The Mujahideen -> AQ namely in the person of Osama bin Laden.
US CIA -> The Mujahideen/OBL namely through training and supply in fighting the USSR invasion of Afghanistan.

So, yes... From a certain point of view, one can make a strong case in saying the USA made ISIL... From a certain point of view...

Again, sources are 'common knowledge' and the Encyclopædia Britannica.

Smoke me a kipper, you are correct in this statement about the origin of ISIL. And you are also correct in that it is most certainly not 'new knowledge'.

Well yes, if you're going back to the Mujahideen again, though that's not quite what smoke said which was "Askari-styled force recruited, financed, armed (directly and indirectly by the west and its middle-eastern allies) to deliver regime change in Iran". IIRC, the US funded the Mujahideen to deliver regime change in Afghanistan, rather than Iran, and I'm more than happy to wait for more details of the west supporting the folks behind ISIL (or AQI or whatever Abu Musab al-Zarqawi called his terrorist organization before it was AQI; wikipedia suggests this was the JTJ, which is not found in britannica, though there are other references to it, e.g. stanford.edu).

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Apologies, gents, for the delay. My youngest sibling has been taken seriously ill with MenB. In consequence, my presence here will prove sporadic. In the interim, I will post the small progress made (prior to her illness) and the little I have added to it since.

From a certain point of view, one can make a strong case in saying the USA made ISIL... From a certain point of view...

For hands as grubby, if not more so, Major Kong, we need to look a little further back than that, Sir - although even this is not far enough.

The following (intended merely as an outline - for which I will endeavour to provide specific links for at a later date) might be:

The Anglo-French decision to implode the Ottoman Empire. In the interests of furthering state, corporate, and colonial greed, the cost of setting Muslim against Muslim, and Muslim against Jew, appeared on the investment side of our balance sheet. It still does.

(A read from a perspective we rarely confront ourselves with.)

Secondly: Why Britain knew the policy "worked" ie: How we turned an uprising against our presence in India into a war between faiths, to strengthen our grip on the subcontinent, and deepen divisions. It left behind a nation so paranoid of its neighbours it was ripe for successive military coups, and US support of them – gaining the latter, access to Pakistan's border with Iran (initially) and more recently, to their border with Afghanistan.

The Balfour agreement (mentioned earlier in this thread as I recall) was discussed at length in another thread. Having read that, there seems little point revisiting it here, but it explains a PM I received earlier this week :-)

To return to my initial link (above)

by the 1979 revolution, his increasingly independent policies resulted in his effective abandonment by his American allies, hastening his downfall.

The bold text is my insertion. Keep it mind when reading the following link: The strongest propaganda is constructed upon truth

I will leave to individual discretion, how much could be deemed subjective and/or propaganda - but the book it refers to is one that was recommended to me by a young man I shared part of my education with. Our views on the role Britain played internationally, were initially vehemently opposed. It was an uncomfortable first lesson for me. The link I have provided here, whatever its shortcomings, is a fair representation of the compelling and well-researched case that was put forward by Engdahl.

But for the moment, I will have to leave it there. Once again, my apologies.

Apologies, gents, for the delay. My youngest sibling has been taken seriously ill with MenB. In consequence, my presence here will prove sporadic. In the interim, I will post the small progress made (prior to her illness) and the little I have added to it since.

From a certain point of view, one can make a strong case in saying the USA made ISIL... From a certain point of view...

For hands as grubby, if not more so, Major Kong, we need to look a little further back than that, Sir - although even this is not far enough.

The following (intended merely as an outline - for which I will endeavour to provide specific links for at a later date) might be:

The Anglo-French decision to implode the Ottoman Empire. In the interests of furthering state, corporate, and colonial greed, the cost of setting Muslim against Muslim, and Muslim against Jew, appeared on the investment side of our balance sheet. It still does.

(A read from a perspective we rarely confront ourselves with.)

Secondly: Why Britain knew the policy "worked" ie: How we turned an uprising against our presence in India into a war between faiths, to strengthen our grip on the subcontinent, and deepen divisions. It left behind a nation so paranoid of its neighbours it was ripe for successive military coups, and US support of them – gaining the latter, access to Pakistan's border with Iran (initially) and more recently, to their border with Afghanistan.

The Balfour agreement (mentioned earlier in this thread as I recall) was discussed at length in another thread. Having read that, there seems little point revisiting it here, but it explains a PM I received earlier this week :-)

To return to my initial link (above)

by the 1979 revolution, his increasingly independent policies resulted in his effective abandonment by his American allies, hastening his downfall.

The bold text is my insertion. Keep it mind when reading the following link: The strongest propaganda is constructed upon truth

I will leave to individual discretion, how much could be deemed subjective and/or propaganda - but the book it refers to is one that was recommended to me by a young man I shared part of my education with. Our views on the role Britain played internationally, were initially vehemently opposed. It was an uncomfortable first lesson for me. The link I have provided here, whatever its shortcomings, is a fair representation of the compelling and well-researched case that was put forward by Engdahl.

But for the moment, I will have to leave it there. Once again, my apologies.

Smoke me a kipper, My thoughts and prayers are with you daughter.
Wishing her a full recovery.


France CLOSES all borders for three months.

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Hope she get well soon , Smoke me a Kipper not good when kids get sick .

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I'm not sure that ISIL is wise...implementing terror attacks on 3 nuclear power forces & now it's 4th...do they think it's just OK to provoke those forces?! ;)

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

A picture that says all it need to from Fance to the extremists



You just have to love their style.

A picture that says all it need to from Fance to the extremists



You just have to love their style.

+1

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

it's a (from left to right): C+, B & C...
;)

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

Pity some people don't know how to take a joke witch it why the brs's are up on the balcony .

No wonder what I herd happened

As our new pm said "It must be so sad that some people are just miserable People "

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well, there's been 1 guy that commented on those attacks & ISIL words about "bad western culture"...check here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glxh9ZgP7kc
;)

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU