Our current ruling class is out of control. Has been for a couple of decades now. The problem is not imaginary. It's quite obvious everywhere you look. The list of changes because of light and transient causes are becoming too numerous to list. The left and most of our press are just ignoring this very real problem. But they are not prosecuted because they are the prosecutors. The reason our country is becoming lawless is because our ruling class has become lawless.

Crime is down, but sure, the US is becoming 'lawless'. In other threads you and these other freedom warriors are constantly complaining about how all these rules and regulations are choking the life out of everything and how its slowly turning the US into a 'socialist' state. But now its all becoming lawless. Look, you can't argue that something is becoming lawless while at the same time complaining about how there are far too many rules. Get your story straight.

Our country was created to be run by our citizens. Our constitution can be read in is entirety in one sitting. It is written so the majority of citizens can read and understand it. But the left and the press say only smart people can understand it now and many people, such as you, believe them. It's in plain English. Anybody can understand it but it seems like most are not reading it any more.

Well yeah the problem with laws, including constitutions is that the simpler they are to read, the more they rely on 'common sense'. Thing is, common sense is not an universally understood idea. Whats common sense to you, others feel is complete and utter bollocks. Invoking common sense in a court doesn't work because common sense has no meaning. So thats where lawyers and judges come in, they look at the constitution and every other law, look at what their intent is, look at their context and from there distill a more precise meaning of what the constitution or law says. That is the basis of judicial review and its necessary in order to have a functional rule of law.

Tyranny is happening before our very eyes. They have been governing with out the consent of the governed with greater and greater tenacity. Our founders predicted this. Our founders were worried the citizens would become stupid and ignore the principles in our constitution and they were right.

I'm pretty sure Americans aren't ignoring the principles of the constitution, I think they are just ignoring politicians because they are cynical about how the system functions.

The right to bear arms here in the U.S. was to give us a last chance check on tyranny. It hasn't gotten bad enough to invoke that extreme measure and hopefully it never reaches that point. The left wants to remove that last check so they can become even more brazen about seizing all power and control away from the people. It won't happen soon. Too many people like me still here.

If apathy is the problem, how big do you think the chance is that people will rise up in an armed revolution?

Besides, the left wants to do what? You do realize that the only 'left' person in power has been Obama for the last 4 years or so? Maybe you should stop worrying about what the left wants to do and more worried about what your favorite right wing candidates are claiming. I mean, you got a failed businessman who admitted to have read Hitlers work and seems to have copied the guys entire campaign strategy as well as policy agenda, you got a famous neurosurgeon who hates Muslims and is to cowardly to call other candidates out on their anti vaccination nonsense, and a failed business woman who has failed at everything she has ever done, but then pretends that utter failure is actually an astounding success.

But yeah, worry about the left, they are clearly the real danger here.

We do not limit who can vote. We allow anybody who shows up at the poll to vote. The left likes it that way. When people breach our borders, they can vote for free stuff and then get it. When the right says we are going bankrupt, the left laughs. It's not funny.

Again, you are being inconsistent. Just a few paragraphs ago you were complaining that the left thinks only 'the elite' can read the constitution, but now you are complaining that everyone can vote. So let me get this right, its fine if everyone can read and understand the constitution in whatever way they see fit, but if they then want to support a candidate that also reads the constitution like they do, thats no longer okay? And you dare accuse 'the left' of wanting to set up a tyranny?

Our government is broken. The minority is in charge. Our judicial branch has gone rogue. The left is spending us into bankruptcy. The left is becoming more brazen about destroying this country.

'
Indeed, the minority is in charge. Funny thing is that this minority only consistently votes for right wing candidates. Look at congress, Republicans have a majority. Look at states legislatures, its filled to the brink with right wing extremists. But sure, the left is destroying America.

But it looks like the people are starting to wake up. Many of us are getting desperate to try anything to fix it before it's too late. Term limits would be a good start. It was good enough to enact after FDR, it would be a good thing to enact on our congress and our judicial branch. We need more citizen representatives, more citizen presidents, and less life-time judges.

Like supporting tyrants and self styled 'strong leaders' who promise to fix all the problems? History should tell you that never works out well. But enjoy your new Fascist overlords.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

...just as relevant today as it was 239 years ago.

Funny how you argue that not all men should be equal, given how you want to restrict voting rights and all.

Also, that other part, see right there the foundation of Bernie Sanders campaign. Abolish the previous government does not necessarily mean with violence. The nice thing of democracy like this is that every government gets abolished every few years and a new one created, through voting. Well then, Obama goes out next year, the new one goes in and he or she gets to set up the government in such a way as they see fit to best help people achieve happiness and safety.

That does mean that your dreaded 'socialism' is actually a perfectly American thing to pursue if people want it.

And so once again, we see how freedom warriors, much like bible warriors, have just no idea what the texts they are so fond of quoting actually say.

@Sarge. You forgot to highlight this from the US Constitution:

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and happiness.

Wrong document Janne

Is it?
Does Thomas Jefferson and The Declaration of Independence ring a bell?
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

Declaration of Independence != US Constitution.

Note to Janne: != is also represented by <>.

I know C++ :)

Lawless = too many rules? Common sense has no meaning? The only 'left' person in power has been Obama for the last 4 years or so? The left thinks only 'the elite' can read the constitution, but now I'm complaining that everyone can vote? A minority of right wing extremists in congress and state legislatures?

Good Lord Mnwerb! You are conflating my thoughts and drawing absurd conclusions about me. You are showing some really good examples of Orwellian DoubleThink. And you are trying to send me off into multiple wild defensive tangents. A proven tactic that liberals use to get their way because it deflects from actually solving the real issue(s). Homie's not gonna play dat.

Right, pointing out the inconsistency in your arguments is doublethink from my side. Look, if you are going to use meta arguments, at least use good ones.

You mention Bernie Sanders. He's leading in many polls now. He has stated that he will spend (cumulatively) $18T when he gets into the white house. So these voters want to change out our government in such a way as they see fit to best help people achieve happiness and safety? I wouldn't call what they're voting for change--let alone change for the good.

Does it matter what you think? In the end, if he were to win the elections, the government is being renewed (just like after every new election) and as your declaration of independence states, the new government will be "laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness." Thats democracy as your founders intended it to be.

Many of our founders expressed concern that in order for this country to succeed, the voters need to be informed. They recognized education was important. This semester, I have a couple of students who don't hear a word I say. They have difficulty following step-by-step instructions. One of them has an Individualized Education Plan. (For those of you who don't know what that is, I'm am told by my administrators to allow him to cheat on tests because he's "special.") And they are probably going to vote in the next election.

Wow, you have one student who needs extra help to get along with the rest of your students, and you have a few others that also have learning difficulties. Surely that means that voters in general are to stupid to be left to their own devices and their freedom to vote should be restricted. Yep, makes total sense, you know a couple of students who are a bit slower than everyone else, so lets take them away their constitutional and civil rights. Rights are only for people who meet the arbitrary standard of intelligence.

Honestly this is of the same level as claiming you have a black friend and therefor cannot possibly be a racist.

Honestly this is of the same level as claiming you have a black friend and therefor cannot possibly be a racist.

I thought that was a black family member?

Apparently, you don't think what I think matters. Apparently, you think you know what's best for me in my country, even though you live in another country.

I didn't say that. I said it doesn't matter what you think in the context of if and when Bernie Sanders wins the elections. Because if he wins, clearly more than enough people have a completely different idea of whats good and what isn't good for the United States, and those people get to decide what the president of the US will be doing for the next 4 years.

And for that matter, my opinion also doesn't matter in this context, as you rightly pointed out that I'm not an American.

You want another "meta argument?" You not only relentlessly change the subject—an intellectually-dishonest debate tactic—you relentlessly change the meaning of my answers 180 degrees.

Change the subject? When did I change the subject? And if I change the meaning of your answers 180 degrees, does that mean you actually agree with me this whole time? Or are you just claiming this because you don't like where your own answers lead you when scrutinized?

And now you're trying to play a race card on me...

Seriously? The race card? Whose changing the meaning of my answers and changing the subject now?

You just do this because you think it's fun, don't you?

Do what? Respond to your post? Actually I do it because I find it interesting. But yes, I do get some enjoyment out of this, or otherwise I wouldn't bother responding.

There are television programs playing these days that accomplish the same kind of sick, twisted, harmful humor here in the states. (Jackass, Ridiculousness, Tosh.O, etc.)

You'll be glad to know then that I hate all those programs and don't watch any of them.

I could just write a computer program that appends, "Wrong! You're an idiot! I'm smarter than you!" at the end of everyone of my posts and that would accomplish what you're accomplishing.

I think you fundamentally misunderstand what I seek to accomplish.

I've said everything I'm going to say in this thread.

finis

Well, thats to bad, honestly.

Even though I disagree with almost everything you say and believe, I don't begrudge you the right or opportunity to talk about the things you believe in. I do honestly think its sad when people rage quit the moment someone scrutinizes their viewpoints.

Yes it can be annoying when someone essentially tells you youre wrong. But rather than see it as a personal insult, take it as a challenge to create a counter argument that defends your beliefs.