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Darth Beaver Send message Joined: 20 Aug 99 Posts: 6728 Credit: 21,443,075 RAC: 3 |
I have been under the impression that Mohamed believed that all infidels and especially apostates should be killed. Was I wrong? short answer is yes you are wrong try reading the Koran to find out what he says about infidels and it's not that they should all be killed but tolarated |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
I have been under the impression that Mohamed believed that all infidels and especially apostates should be killed. Was I wrong? That's very true Glenn. When Spain was a muslim/islamitic country both jews and christians where tolerated. |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
Why don't you provide examples to help illustrate what you mean by your terms? Ahh, yes, the "many". Are any of their number here? So... Surely that depends on the basis of the differentiation? Texts that are religious in nature are different to those that are secular, or are you arguing that the labels are irrational? There are those (The Intolerant) who believe there is a difference. I'm sure there are some that have intolerance as the basis of a differentiation, though I'm not sure any have posted to this thread. Therefore... I have entered their universe, in an attempt to have them understand the error of their thinking. Why not provide an illustration of your universe and let others see how it differs to their own? (a discussion based on "this is what a believe and here are my reasons for doing so", may have more positive results than one based upon "here's what you believe and it is wrong") I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
Dave(The Admiral)Nelson Send message Joined: 4 Jun 99 Posts: 415 Credit: 22,293,483 RAC: 1 |
Did Mohamed ever have any one murdered in order to solidify his position? Dave Nelson |
janneseti Send message Joined: 14 Oct 09 Posts: 14106 Credit: 655,366 RAC: 0 |
Did Mohamed ever have any one murdered in order to solidify his position? Criticism of Muhammad. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Muhammad |
Мишель Send message Joined: 26 Nov 13 Posts: 3073 Credit: 87,868 RAC: 0 |
Did Mohamed ever have any one murdered in order to solidify his position? Quite possibly the only two historical leaders who haven't done that are Ghandi and Mandela. If Mohamed is behind the murder of people in order to solidify his position, he is in the fine company of pretty much every historical leader ever. To pick him out and hold it against him while ignoring everyone else is only evidence of your own double standards. |
Dave(The Admiral)Nelson Send message Joined: 4 Jun 99 Posts: 415 Credit: 22,293,483 RAC: 1 |
" To pick him out and hold it against him while ignoring everyone else is only evidence of your own double standards." Who did that? Dave Nelson |
Мишель Send message Joined: 26 Nov 13 Posts: 3073 Credit: 87,868 RAC: 0 |
I suspect you were trying to work your way there. |
Darth Beaver Send message Joined: 20 Aug 99 Posts: 6728 Credit: 21,443,075 RAC: 3 |
As Clyde has explain'd and Jann has said it's not the religion but the leaders of the religion , much like the Catholic church was in the 1400's so brushing all Muslims with the tag of Terrorist only severs the terrorist's and war mongers of politics The Muslims don't denigh that Jesus was not a prophet , but that he was also a prophet for his ppl . As was Budda ?? Krishnas ?? Toleration.........maybe ! |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19080 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
I have been under the impression that Mohamed believed that all infidels and especially apostates should be killed. Was I wrong? Jews and Christians according to Muhammad are to be considered Ahlul-Kitab, which literally means the “People of the Book.†|
Bob DeWoody Send message Joined: 9 May 10 Posts: 3387 Credit: 4,182,900 RAC: 10 |
Therein lies the problem, It's hard to have a religion without leaders and it's hard to get rid of the leaders without destroying the religion. Bob DeWoody My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events. |
Darth Beaver Send message Joined: 20 Aug 99 Posts: 6728 Credit: 21,443,075 RAC: 3 |
Therein lies the problem, It's hard to have a religion without leaders and it's hard to get rid of the leaders without destroying the religion. Some what true Bob , it will depend if your talking ISIS or the Muslim Religion . There are more moderate Muslim places Indonesia 200 mill Islam , Malaysia 30 mill Islam , Philippines 102 mil , 10% Muslim in a Catholic country , Singapore 5 mill 33% Buddhist 15% Muslim So whipping up B/S propaganda just because it's coming up to a election soon is something better left unheard |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
Why don't you provide examples to help illustrate what you mean by your terms? And there are some that suggest the the Old Testament is in large part historically accurate, like Menachem Begin saying Jewish slaves built the pyramids, which is very likely a myth, or that Moses lead an Exodus of, according to Numbers, over 600,000 men from Egypt to Israel, which is almost certainly a myth. As Rabbi David Wolpe states in the second link: A tradition cannot make an historical claim and then refuse to have it evaluated by history. It is not an historical claim that God created us and cares for us. That a certain number of people walked across a particular desert at a particular time in the past, after being enslaved and liberated, is an historical claim, and one cannot then cry "unfair" when historians evaluate it. Is the rabbi guilty of the false differentiation you note others making? If Jewish scholars can tolerate (and, in some cases, lead) investigations into the historicity of the Torah, why shouldn't we pose similar questions regarding the foundational document of Christianity? I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
Referencing 'Ancient' History: What incorrect Non-Jewish/Christian Pagan history do you believe is accepted? I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
bobby... What was shown to be incorrect? The open question you cannot answer: When information is shown to be incongruent with the available evidence, it is my understanding that the appropriate action is to discount that information as factual in nature. Thus I would not propose that anybody accept as a factual account of events the incorrect references in whatever it is you mean by "Non-Jewish/Christian Pagan History", just as I would not propose a person accept such references in "Jewish/Christian History" as a factual account of events. It is unclear to me: what you mean by acceptance, (e.g. acceptance as fact, vs acceptance as myth) what you are classifying as history, (the historicity of people and events, cultural heritage, legends, etc) why, in a discussion about historicity, you choose the terms you use. I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
It is unclear to me: Fair enough. It's not clear to me that you have answered the question "Is the rabbi guilty of the false differentiation you note others making?", so I'll restate it as "do you believe the rabbi quoted in 1738497 inhabits one of the shallow universes you mention in 1736926?", Do you believe that any question regarding historicity indicates that the questioner inhabits one of these shallow universes? I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
It is unclear to me: Which is all well and good. There were two questions, this does not answer either. I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79 |
bobby... Translation? Rejecting part of something is being viewed as a complete rejection of all of it and, in turn, acceptance of all of the "opposite" not even just part of it. |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
Translation? Then you misunderstood my answer. I've already said in this thread: "Personally I would not count the Iliad as documentary evidence of Helen's existence" "I believe the evidence for the existence of Achilles is as compelling as that for Jesus." "When information is shown to be incongruent with the available evidence, it is my understanding that the appropriate action is to discount that information as factual in nature." Does that make it clear? For me the source of the information is irrelevant when making a determination about the information's historicity. Please answer the questions about the rabbi, and those who pose questions about historicity. I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79 |
Translation? May I ask a favor? As your time allows, please take a random sample of Bobby's past postings. I suggest 10 from each year Bobby has posted, so about 100 posts? I don't think you're going to get a good enough idea about what he accepts, rejects and takes a more nuanced approached to from just a few posts in one thread. I tried to provide another angle by a link to his posts in Matt Giwer's anti-Semitic thread from about 2 years ago. Bobby provided the best arguments (present) against Matt Giwer's anti-Semitism. You replied when I linked that but I didn't really follow. Seeing a larger picture, I don't think Bobby is the type of person you think he is. I think I can tell fairly well now what you have your guard up against and you are right to have you guard up. But, I have found it best, in my own experience, to always have my guard up, while most people cannot even tell it is up and there is a time to act and there is a time to remain vigilant. |
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