More info, Railway touring Company with timetable.

We should have a fast run out of the hills through to Settle before we stop for our steam locomotive to take on water. We continue through Hellifield and Clitheroe to Blackburn, where we stop to set down passengers. We then take the direct line, climbing up the steep gradient to Sough Tunnel and then descending to Wigan North Western, where we stop to set down passengers. Shortly after 19:00, we arrive at our final destination – Manchester Victoria – and the end of a truly marvellous day.

And guess who has meeting in Sussex all day the 22nd and expected to stay over w/end.

Thanks Chris - I make that 9:00 - 9:30 at Hellifield, perhaps even 8:30 - which is still quite dark at this time of year. The water stop at Settle might be possible, but probably very crowded! Again, an actual working timetable with intermediate reference points would be much more precise - they'll have to have one, negotiated with Network Rail.

If I'm rained off, the NYMR on March is also possible, though a lot further away.

Note that they've reversed the route - the timetable says widdershins, even though the itinerary is still clockwise.

Apologies for two posts in a row, bad form, just trying to help Richard.

Thought that was only an issue in TLPTPW threads.
Don't see an apology necessary, Chris.

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Donald
Infernal Optimist / Submariner, retired

@ Richard - You're welcome

@Donald - Maybe technically not necessary, but good manners :-)

Good point.

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Donald
Infernal Optimist / Submariner, retired

This w/end, 16th & 17th Jan, Flying Scotsman on the East Lancashire Railway - when and where you can see the iconic steam locomotive

Not posted for a while so time for a little catch up.

"Warning - Train Cam Pictures Ahead" Those who find these boring please vacate this thread for your own mental health!!

I was only thinking a few days ago that I hadn't seen a new ACS64 for a while when:



#664 arrived on the 11th behind #92 and #75. Must have been a Christmas break!!

Some mention was made on the Railstream forums of this incident



#42 the Veterans unit looking like it needs a bit of an overhaul.

Actually quite a few of the P42's do that as they accelerate just there, to be fair some of the Metra F40PH's do it as well.

Also noticeable was the fact it was #42 and #43 as a pair on the Southwest Chief on the 4th.

Often I take a screenshot just for aesthetic value.

Here we see #207 "The last of thr P42's" heading into a sunrise created by the silver cars of The City of New Orleans.



The 13th saw this on the Lake Shore 49 from New York;



#10031 Dome Lounge Ocean View, the only dome lounge in the Amtrak fleet.

"This car was originally built in 1955 by Budd for the Great Northern Railway's Empire Builder train. Conveyed to Amtrak in 1971, the car was numbered 9361. Converted to HEP from Steam Heat in March 1985 and renumbered 9300. Renumbered 10031 in April 1999, the car is now Amtrak's only dome car on the fleet and is used on special trains and is also the featured car on select trains during different times of the year. This car is equipped for food service on the lower level and the entire dome section consists of lounge tables"

This time of year the private cars are few and far between, but this was on the rear of the same train, seen here turning at Chicago.



The Sliver Iris which is based in Katy TX.

There have been several mentions in this thread about IPH and the Hoosier State train 850/851.

At first it ran with a GP40FH at either end then both at one end.

The last week has seen #4135 all alone.



I am hoping that doesn't mean 4137 and 4144 are both laid up with problems.

Perhaps IPH have decide it is cheaper(if a bit risky) to just run on one!

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#42 the Veterans unit looking like it needs a bit of an overhaul.

If is was a bus Bernie, then I'd say that it's a failing turbo as the air to fuel ratio was dropping badly.

I know that I comment very rarely in these train threads, but I do enjoy them. :-)

I've got to get back into Sydney soon (most probably during winter) and I'll see if I can get time to take a few pic's of the general rolling stock there. ;-)

Cheers.

great pics.

Thank you Bernie for the great rail photos!
Enjoy seeing the all snapshots especially the ones showing the skyline from my old home town (Chicago).

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Yes, a little snow can make for good train spotting. Picture taken on OSR spur line near Tillsonburg, about an hour from my house, in January 2014.

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I heard 664 was coming in the other day, but I didn't have a chance to see it. One more and then we find out if there will be a 666.

42 went out on 3 again today. Departed late due to "engine problems." Not sure if it was 42 or the other one with the trouble. GEs have always been known for their turbo lag, although much less in recent years due to pollution regulations. They have regular exhaust-driven turbochargers, whereas EMDs are gear-driven at low speeds so there's less lag.

I'm not sure why the HS is running with only one unit. I'm sure it was running with two as reliability assurance.

Iowa Pacific is in a squabble with Amtrak and not running Pullman or anything else right now, except for a few cars deadheading around. Cars that moved to their various properties for Polar Express events are staying there instead of going back to Chicago or other terminals. (They will be put to use, though. Excursions will run on the Piedmont & Northern and the Grenada Railway (or did Ed give it a new name?).) The issue is Amtrak's rule that any private car owner that runs on the same route (city pair) more than eight times a year is a carrier in its own right and needs to meet the full FRA and FDA safety rules. IPH did comply with those rules for the Pullman service to NOLA. However, Amtrak also requires that in such cases, the private car owner has to pay $125 per passenger in addition to the standard mileage and switching fees. IPH didn't want to pay that anymore and decided to limit NOLA service to eight trips this year, plus eight to Denver, a few to New York (which is a PITA logistically), and maybe a few other places. Amtrak is still requiring them to sign a contract agreeing to all the rules and fees. I'm not really sure which side is in the wrong. It does seem likely, though, that Amtrak is being a bit pissy because of the Hoosier State. Meanwhile, several people I know have been laid off (but that's not entirely due to passenger service problems; some are in freight service, some of those with other railroads not affiliated with IPH). My friend Mike is waiting to hear whether his summertime journeys will resume as scheduled in April. Anyway, the last -- for now -- Pullman trip departed Chicago on December 31 and all reservations for this year have been refunded. (It couldn't run at this time anyway because of flooding on the lower Mississippi River. The last I heard, Amtrak was busing passengers between Jackson, MS, and NOLA.)

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David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

Did anyone see Mythbusters last night?

The whole episode was about the myth of a railroad tank car being crushed by pressure when it was sealed while still hot after being steam cleaned and then rain falling on it.

They managed to get a retired car that was due to be scrapped and recreate the conditions of the myth, with interesting results.

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David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

Did not see it.
Link would be nice.

Meanwhile, best train movie ever.................

Unstoppable.

I am interested to know if some railroad guys have any problems with the movie, or if it is as realistic a possibility as it presents.

IE, could there be such a possibility. I believe that the air brakes on a train, like on a truck, lock up with no air. Such halting such an event.

More train guys than fire truck guys here, what do you think?

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Did not see it.
Link would be nice.

Meanwhile, best train movie ever.................

Unstoppable.

I am interested to know if some railroad guys have any problems with the movie, or if it is as realistic a possibility as it presents.

IE, could there be such a possibility. I believe that the air brakes on a train, like on a truck, lock up with no air. Such halting such an event.

More train guys than fire truck guys here, what do you think?

It is based on a real incident The CSX 8888 incident If you read that you can see how it happened, and yes it was stopped in almost the same way as portrayed in the film.

Allowing for the "Hollywood effect" I enjoyed the film.

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Did not see it.
Link would be nice.

Meanwhile, best train movie ever.................

Unstoppable.

I am interested to know if some railroad guys have any problems with the movie, or if it is as realistic a possibility as it presents.

IE, could there be such a possibility. I believe that the air brakes on a train, like on a truck, lock up with no air. Such halting such an event.

More train guys than fire truck guys here, what do you think?

It is based on a real incident The CSX 8888 incident If you read that you can see how it happened, and yes it was stopped in almost the same way as portrayed in the film.

Allowing for the "Hollywood effect" I enjoyed the film.

I saw the last half hour or so of the movie, once, so I don't know the movie's story of how the situation came to be. What I can say is that the "Hollywood effect" took a LOT of liberties with how things really work. However, I saw it a while ago, so I don't remember the details. Certainly the real life incident didn't involve the train going across a high bridge and almost falling off into a town, or leaning so hard into a curve the wheels came up on one side. It was REALLY spectacularized.

From what I remember of 8888, the way they finally stopped it was to couple another engine onto the other end of the train and its brakes were able to slow it enough for someone to get on 8888 and close its throttle. I'm pretty sure he went from a truck, not along the top of the train. Also, I believe that since it was involved in switching, the engineer was only using the engine brake, not the train brakes, thus the air was never dumped to put it into emergency, and may not have been charged up in the first place (I don't remember).

The way train brakes work is much more complex than on a truck. When the brakes are charged up and released, there is 90 PSI (passenger services other than museums usually use 110#) in the pipe and in each car's main reservoir (which has a service section and a larger emergency section). When the engineer wants to apply the brakes, he releases a minimum of 6# (most often 10 for an initial set) from the pipe. On each car there is a "triple valve" that tries to keep equilibrium between the pipe on one side and the main reservoir on the other side. When the pipe pressure is reduced, the triple valve slides toward it, which opens a port that releases air from the main res. into the brake cylinder, which applies the brake shoes to the wheels. When the pressure equalizes, the triple valve centers itself again, holding the cylinder pressure where it is. If the engineer releases more air from the pipe, the triple valve sends more air to the cylinder, squeezing the wheels tighter. If he wants to release the brakes, he moves his handle the other way and air from special tanks on the locomotive is sent into the pipe, raising it back to 90#. The triple valves in each car move the other way, which does two things: the air in the cylinder is vented to atmosphere, allowing its spring to pull the brake shoes away from the wheels, and air from the pipe recharges the main res. so it's ready for next time.

There is a pressure (64#, I believe) at which releasing more air from the pipe will not result in any more air being put into the cylinder, which, obviously, is not a good thing. I think emergency still works down to 40-something.

Each car also has a valve that senses how fast the air is released from the pipe; if the release is quick, it thinks it's in emergency and releases the air faster.

I apparently need to read up on this before this year's museum season, because I don't remember right now what causes the triple valve to put emergency air into the cylinder.

Anyway, getting to your original question, when all the air is drained from a car, the cylinder will release. Safety rules require that some other means of holding the car still be in place before the air is drained. This could be the hand brake being applied, wheel chocks being placed, or some other physical force or barrier. At the end of the day at the museum, I have to make sure there is one chock in place in each direction on the easternmost car in the train before the locomotive uncouples from it. (We use the east end because that's where the engine always couples on, so the chocks are right there where all the action is.) In the case of the oil train wreck in Canada a few years ago, the engineer (apparently/allegedly) did not set as many hand brakes as he should have for the weight of the train and the grade it was stopped on. This was fine as long as the locomotive was running, maintaining the brake pipe pressure he set (probably 70, which, I didn't explain before, would result in 50# in each car's cylinder), but when the fire department shut it down, leakage caused the pipe pressure to drop to 0, and then the air in the cylinders eventually leaked out as well, releasing the brakes.

IIRC, that was not the only incident CSXT 8888 was involved in. I believe it (wearing a different number, maybe even owned by a different railroad) was also one of several units in a large and deadly wreck about ten miles from my home, at the location of at least one of the drone videos I posted.

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David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

Noting the accident involving Amtrak train 383, I now know why the 380 did not run Sunday.

The 383 Chicago to Quincy on one day forms the 380 Quincy to Chicago on the following morning. So it never arrived.

I am thinking it may well have been #69 involved.

The loco that pulls the 390 in the morning, usually then plus the 383 the same evening

This is the 390 arriving on Saturday (yes it is arriving, it comes down the airline in the background and reverses in).



I don't usually see the 383 leave Chicago as it is around midnight UTC, also during the winter too dark to get a good shot.

I assume that the accident is why the 381 next morning instead of looking like this



The normal four Horizon short distance cars, looked like this.



Four coach class long distance cars. First time I have ever seen those on the Quincy service. Interesting.

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You are correct, Bernie, that the lead engine on 383 was 69. I went to the Belmont Road Metra station and watched the train limping back to Chicago. I don't know why, but it was limited to 20 mph. 69 had its right ditch light still illuminated and showed some minor damage on the nose.

The Superliners may have had nothing to do with the crash. They are often substituted for Horizons in extreme cold because their water pipes are insulated, whereas Horizons' are not and are subject to freezing. Usually, though, it's done on the train that will be away from the terminal overnight, not the one in the yard where they have the tools and people to thaw them.

BTW, notice that the first car has no lower level windows. There's food service in that section instead of seats. All four of them are probably configured for corridor service rather than long distance.

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David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

Can anyone point me to a site where I can find the working timetable for January 23, please? I might mosey up the road to somewhere like Hellifield junction and try for a piccy. Depending on weather.

I did find a couple of working timetables for the day:

UK MainLine Steam Tours 2016

1Z61, 1Z63 (Realtime Trains)

but when I saw that it was due to pass Hellifield station without stopping at 08:35, I didn't bother (I'm not equipped to visit the goods sidings where it was supposed to take on water).

However, looking at the timetables now, it looks as if Flying Scotsman itself was taken off the service, and Realtime Trains is saying they're using diesel haulage - and running rather late. On the whole, I think it was a good idea to have a lie-in instead!

Not often The Westmorland Gazette scoops the world!

Flying Scotsman's journey along the Settle to Carlisle line on Saturday has been cancelled due to mechanical problems

Although the world's most famous steam locomotive came through a test run last weekend unscathed, there have been reports of brake issues meaning it has had to be withdrawn from Saturday's plans.