as stated before, I don't believe in God...I do know God exists!

Either please take your meds or go and sign yourself back in again, this is getting silly.

well, now you are being very impolite!

after all, you are not a medical PhD to be judging like that...
are you always that impolite to people who don't share your opinion?

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

well, if there aren't any difference in a comprehension of the question, while asking about same subject = then both answers would be the same!

But there are differences in the question. Asking if God exists really isn't a meaningful question at all because no one can know for certain. A more meaningful question, one that would properly separate the believers from the non-believers (with no room in the middle), is if one believes God exists.

as they are not, I can only assume from a psychology books & training, that the comprehension of the question is different (many types it is)

Not really. It doesn't have much to do with the comprehension of the question. It has everything to do with identifying a more meaningful question if one really wants to place labels (faithful/non-faithful, atheist/agnostic/believer) on everything.

...so don't take if offended, it's just as it is...I do respect that you don't have faith or belief - it's your life!

I'm not offended at all. What I'm trying to communicate to you is a different way of understanding the foundational question, so that you understand that truly most agnostics are atheist. I think the label atheist carries a lot of negative connotations and stigma that, unfortunately, most agnostics shy away from the label unnecessarily. That is why asking a more meaningful question is so important.

just that many Atheists don't have belief in some things...proof: when did you do something as a "leap of faith"? did somebody asked you to do something as a "leap of faith"? ;)

I don't take leaps of faith. I take educated guesses which do not require faith at all.

the more we know, the more we know God exists...
even S.Hawking proved that God plays dice! so if God plays dice, God must exists...;)

I think this is an example of interpreting statements to suit your own world view. Dr. Hawking did not prove that God plays with dice. Neither did Einstein. When theoretical physicists and other scientists refer to God playing with dice, they're talking about probabilities of the Universe, random chance, and other unknowns.

Dr. Hawking has stated that a deity (God) isn't required to explain the existence of the Universe, and that caused a big kerfuffle when he said that. So no, Dr. Hawking did not say God exists at all. I'm pretty sure Dr. Hawking's position on God is much like that of any other atheist: we don't know if God exists, but few of us see any reason to believe in one.

existence of God has been proven by mathematics...so, how much further will you be putting that question:
http://www.hawking.org.uk/does-god-play-dice.html

again, those two questions aren't the same ones...'cause they differ in answer, depending upon asking question...
example:
- would you like a coffee?
- would a coffee suit you right now?
both ask the same thing, but the answer is different...'cause they ask different things! ;)

most people don't even know what they are or who the are...let alone setting some labels on their beliefs (or lack of them)...
also, there are some which don't know what those labels are...so most of them are using it wrongly...

sometimes a time came & you will have to take it (leap of faith)...life puts you in strange moments in time... ;)

yes, that is all true about dr.Hawking...a God is not required to explain existence of Universe, if....do you know what this IF is?
also, if I can prove that you play dice in America & in that I prove that you do play dice, but the dice is "fixed" - does it means that you exist or not?! ;)

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

If you have judged me to be impolite, then that may be a fair comment, and I will apologise for it. But when you make statements like

as stated before, I don't believe in God...I do know God exists!

That does not make any sense at all, and is liable to make people question certain things. You do have a propensity for this.

The title of this thread is crop circles, and whether they are man made or ET made. Quite where God came into it is lost in the mists of time.

We do know that the vast majority of crop circles are man made, many groups have admitted to making them. But there are occasions when some of the most intricate ones are done during the night, with observers camping out. Nothing is seen, heard, or detected, but there it is next morning.

That gives me goose pimples, unless it is all the biggest co-ordinated prank on the planet. In which case it is damn clever, I'll say that.

well, it doesn't have to make sense to you...but it does to me!
maybe you should look more "wider image"...

also, no ET on scanners...no ET visiting on radars...no ET found via SETi@home...
so, they must be:
- man made
- naturally occurring
- unexplained
;)

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

I suggest that you read this post:
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=77868&postid=1711680

By far and above the biggest sources of crop circles are wind-up merchants or farmers who see they can make a bit of money selling their story (and other services). Indeed it is quite probable that these, and similar, are the sole source of crop circles.

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

I know...don't think that "highly intelligent inter-stellar species" would come to Earth & first thing they do is say:
"I know, lets f... everybody's mind & just make crop circles!"
:D LoL

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

existence of God has been proven by mathematics...so, how much further will you be putting that question:
http://www.hawking.org.uk/does-god-play-dice.html

That article does not argue what you seem to think it argues. In the opening statement Hawking describes that the article is meant to address whether we can predict the future if everything is random. Throughout the article he explains that predicting the future would require a deterministic existence, and he argues that random chance and probabilities play a greater role.

In his thought experiment, God represents random chance. In no way does the article mathematically prove God exists.

again, those two questions aren't the same ones...'cause they differ in answer, depending upon asking question...
example:
- would you like a coffee?
- would a coffee suit you right now?
both ask the same thing, but the answer is different...'cause they ask different things! ;)

That's correct, they are different questions. When labeling people as agnostic or atheist, the second question provides a more meaningful response in determining who is a believer and who is atheist, and I was providing you an answer that yes, agnostics are usually atheist and they're not all that different.

most people don't even know what they are or who the are...let alone setting some labels on their beliefs (or lack of them)...
also, there are some which don't know what those labels are...so most of them are using it wrongly...

Agreed. That was my point. When Chris said he was an agnostic atheist, you said they were two separate things. I was arguing you were using the labels incorrectly, and that yes, agnostics can be (and usually are) atheist.

sometimes a time came & you will have to take it (leap of faith)...life puts you in strange moments in time... ;)

I've been in many of those situations myself. Except that you can make the best decision based upon the available knowledge at the time. This isn't a 'leap of faith' at all, nor is a leap of faith required during those moments.

yes, that is all true about dr.Hawking...a God is not required to explain existence of Universe, if....do you know what this IF is?

There is no 'if' in the statement. Until I see sufficient evidence to support the idea of a God, I'm comfortable saying there is no deity at all.

also, if I can prove that you play dice in America & in that I prove that you do play dice, but the dice is "fixed" - does it means that you exist or not?! ;)

Once again, I think you have drawn the wrong conclusions from that article. Proving that America plays dice or that the dice is fixed 1) does not even factor into my personal existence, 2) doesn't even show you understand what it was Dr. Hawking was saying in his article.

you see it your way...I see it differently! ;)
so let's stop that on that...& post here just crop circles... :D

also, check the posts back...Chris said he's "Atheist & Agnostic"...
to him I said (pretty much): "you can't be one & the other...choose which one you wanna be?!" so I said to him "that he doesn't know what that even means"...but hey, people are convinced to different things now in World...
also, it's accepted to be Atheistic agnostic or Agnostic Atheist...in this crazy World it's possible to be Gayish bisexual or Straight bi-curious... LoL :D
but still no Atheist & Agnostic! that is where this posts came from...
;)

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

existence of God has been proven by mathematics...

I seem to remember proving that she doesn't exist.

You can too. Write down all of the attributes that your god must have. Study a little formal Logic --especially Modus Tolendo Tolens.

And then write down your If-then statements and using Modus Tolens you will see that you have a false assumption or that your premises (all-knowing, all merciful, etc) are not to be applied to your god.

You know it's a SHE?!
LoL :D

but, lets get back to CROPS! ;)

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

And I thought this was about crop circles. Well the subject changed but the answer is still the same. Both are fantasies.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

Going back to the subject of the thread, as opposed to the subject of the hijacking of the thread.

Crop circles have long been a source of debate among those that want to believe they are extra-terrestrial origin. To listen to the pontification by some as to how they arrive, and see the papers they put forward can be quite amusing - especially when one actually knows how the set under observation arrived on the ground.
Such artifacts are all too easy to produce. Just a couple of hours, some bits of rope and wood and a small number of able bodied people and you can decorate a ten acre field in a couple of hours. Then the phone call to a few news channels, or these days an out of focus picture on Twitter (I can't help but wander why it is called Twit - er....) and stand back. It is even better if the farmer is involved - you don't want to be done for trespass do you? - He can easily recoup any loss from the crop with the money he gets from interviews and allowing people to park safely and "feel the energy" (or whatever they want to feel). Yes it is a set-up job, but by now those that pay money should realise that that crop circles are man-made, and they are just being total fools, and are partaking in the ancient Chinese saying "A fool and his money are soon parted".

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

I have seen programming debunking the alien source of crop circles. Just two guys some boards and some rope. It was surprising how short a time it took to create some elaborate patterns.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

Also, mostly all crops are bend near the edge of the field...why not in center?!

They might even use Fireman for some transportation?!
small idea how:
https://youtu.be/MDN18yHEv2I?t=2m12s
;)

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

When gaining access to the centre of a field by far and above the easiest way in is along the tractor ways, which in most cases are straight, and often form a handy grid pattern....

(and of course, since these are often nocturnal activities, a couple of big torches can come in very handy for adding some strange lights in the sky just to add some interest to the story...)

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

errrrrrr




Yes - never done a crop circle in a barley field (yet)

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Yes, and rye

(oh, and no non-ceral fields - they are apparently a lot harder to do...)

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Most certainly - however there may only be a few minutes notice as it has always been a case of being in the right place at the right time (and of course having the farmer's permission)

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?