So we agree that Citizens United (or many parts of it) is also bad?

The donors who don't publicize their donations or intentions are the ones you should be worried about.

See, we do have common ground.

So we agree that Citizens United (or many parts of it) is also bad?

The donors who don't publicize their donations or intentions are the ones you should be worried about.

See, we do have common ground.

Citizens United Motto: Dedicated to restoring our government to citizen control.
Isn't the US a democracy?

So we agree that Citizens United (or many parts of it) is also bad?

The donors who don't publicize their donations or intentions are the ones you should be worried about.

See, we do have common ground.

Citizens United Motto: Dedicated to restoring our government to citizen control.
Isn't the US a democracy?

It's been my experience that it depends on what you mean by democracy. It seems to me that for some Americans, Madison confused things in Federalist 10 by juxtaposing republics with democracies, which may lead some in the US to answer your question "No, the US not a democracy, it is a republic".

That, what Madison described as a republic is, outside the US, understood by many to be a representative democracy ("a Government in which the scheme of representation takes place"), which, again outside the US, is usually shortened to democracy, does not seem to matter much to those that provide the "No" answer.

That, what Madison described as a democracy is, outside the US, understood by many to be a direct democracy ("a Society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the Government in person"), which has only been employed in a vanishingly small number of occasions (Ancient Athens, errm), again does not seem to matter much to those that provide the "No" answer.

Personally, I prefer Machiavelli's definition of republic (i.e. not a monarchy), to Madison's, as under Madison's definition, the UK is a republic (when, clearly it is not).

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

So we agree that Citizens United (or many parts of it) is also bad?

The donors who don't publicize their donations or intentions are the ones you should be worried about.

I have been for years.

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Citizens United Motto: Dedicated to restoring our government to citizen control.
Isn't the US a democracy?

Meaning what? Voting to Limit voting by what some consider inferiors, crazy, or need to be controlled by their Superior Human beings?

What The USA was foundered on, is this:
#1 - Government and Citizen Power, limited by Law.
#2 - Since evil will eventually take any Political Power available: Separate Political Power into many different components.

The only way to us citizens is to vote so Superior Human beings are not elected.
The turnout in elections in the US are about 50%.
In Sweden its 80%.
Why are americans so reluctant to vote?

Why are americans so reluctant to vote?

Serious?!! Have you seen a list of candidates?!!!

Why are americans so reluctant to vote?

Serious?!! Have you seen a list of candidates?!!!

I have seen that Donald Trump is a candidat for the republican party.
I thought it was a joke at first:)
Then I know about Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton (not republican).
Could next president be Bush the Third or Clinton the Second...

Here we dont vote for candidates. Only a party.

Citizens United Motto: Dedicated to restoring our government to citizen control.
Isn't the US a democracy?

Meaning what? Voting to Limit voting by what some consider inferiors, crazy, or need to be controlled by their Superior Human beings?

As some have advocated, or at least insanely wished.

What The USA was foundered on, is this:

#1 - Government and Citizen Power, limited by Law.

#2 - Since evil will eventually take any Political Power available: Separate Political Power into many different components.

If one reads The Federalist Papers. One will understand the 'Founding Father's' Political and Social Maturity, and Understanding of Power.

Unlike European Thinking at the time, and Left Wing Thinking today of 'Setup a Good Governmental System and Select Good People to Run it'.

They correctly understand that All Power will...

It was their belief that one Evil Entity, will never share real power with another Evil Entity.

Accordingly: This will help keep the people freer, than a Single Evil Controlling Power.

Quite, Locke and Montesquieu, thinkers of the era, could not have been of use to the Founding Fathers as they were European. The Enlightenment was US centered, right?

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Why are americans so reluctant to vote?

Serious?!! Have you seen a list of candidates?!!!

I have seen that Donald Trump is a candidat for the republican party.
I thought it was a joke at first:)
Then I know about Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton (not republican).
Could next president be Bush the Third or Clinton the Second...

Here we dont vote for candidates. Only a party.

well, don't just focus on president
http://www.latimes.com/topic/crime-law-justice/crime/city-of-bell-public-corruption-scandal-EVGAP00068-topic.html
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/may/14/local/la-me-05-14-maywood-20110514
http://articles.latimes.com/2003/jul/29/local/me-carson29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago-style_politics
http://www.sgvtribune.com/government-and-politics/20150529/covina-hires-former-pasadena-public-works-director-fired-amid-embezzlement-scandal
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-industry-audit-20150428-story.html
Getting the idea?

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Why are americans so reluctant to vote?

Serious?!! Have you seen a list of candidates?!!!

I have seen that Donald Trump is a candidat for the republican party.
I thought it was a joke at first:)
Then I know about Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton (not republican).
Could next president be Bush the Third or Clinton the Second...

Here we dont vote for candidates. Only a party.

well, don't just focus on president
http://www.latimes.com/topic/crime-law-justice/crime/city-of-bell-public-corruption-scandal-EVGAP00068-topic.html
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/may/14/local/la-me-05-14-maywood-20110514
http://articles.latimes.com/2003/jul/29/local/me-carson29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago-style_politics
http://www.sgvtribune.com/government-and-politics/20150529/covina-hires-former-pasadena-public-works-director-fired-amid-embezzlement-scandal
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-industry-audit-20150428-story.html
Getting the idea?

OK. In local governments there is corruption.
Same here.
But on a federal level? Dont think so.
https://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/results

So we agree that Citizens United (or many parts of it) is also bad?

The donors who don't publicize their donations or intentions are the ones you should be worried about.

See, we do have common ground.

Citizens United Motto: Dedicated to restoring our government to citizen control.

Does a motto have to really reflect the truth? Mirror intentions?

https://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/results

Interesting, tied in 174th place for last is a country with 100% voter turnout.

So we agree that Citizens United (or many parts of it) is also bad?

The donors who don't publicize their donations or intentions are the ones you should be worried about.

See, we do have common ground.

Citizens United Motto: Dedicated to restoring our government to citizen control.

Does a motto have to really reflect the truth?

Of course not.
But sometimes a motto can become a dogma...

https://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/results

Interesting, tied in 174th place for last is a country with 100% voter turnout.

Do you mean North Korea?
In that "country" they say "Vote or else...".
In last spring they did have an "election".
I think the turnout was about something like 99.9% :)
https://youtu.be/yqKdqjYUsLs

Ouch.
After all the fretting a few years back about 47% not paying taxes and generally supposedly being lazy, now Trump is saying many of them might not be taxed under his plan? Did I hear/understand this correctly?

Ouch.
After all the fretting a few years back about 47% not paying taxes and generally supposedly being lazy, now Trump is saying many of them might not be taxed under his plan? Did I hear/understand this correctly?

You don't really expect logical consistency in political matters do you?

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Ouch.
After all the fretting a few years back about 47% not paying taxes and generally supposedly being lazy, now Trump is saying many of them might not be taxed under his plan? Did I hear/understand this correctly?

You don't really expect logical consistency in political matters do you?

I never claimed to be an economist nor to have even had a class in macro or micro. What I am referring to is what this will do to his support. However, yes, even that could refer to logical consistency: will the people that complained about it 3-5 years ago that now support Trump continue to support him with this plan unveiled?

I am very disappointed in America right now....
The Donald needs you all to step up to fight
off the charge of Dr. Ben Carson.
Come on America, stand up!


edit:
You people finally get a real American to run
for leadership, and you are letting him down!

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