The problem is that the immigration "issue" is a false misdirection from real issues. It is only a means to attack Latino-Americans with unabashed racism, and unfortunately it has caught up people in the faux debate that wouldn't otherwise be racist.

The truth is that the country is not being torn apart by illegal immigrants coming in from the Mexican-American border. Those that have entered illegally over the decades have paid into our Social Security fund (under false names so they can work) without getting a dime out of it in retirement.

But this entire faux debate has made everyone question every Hispanic person they see, or even hearing talk in their native tongue! I do not see this same annoyance with those speaking Polish or Russian in our country; only the Latino community gets that kind of distrust.

Forget about immigration. It's not even a real political issue. We should be more worried about our own government spying on it's citizens illegally, and the FBI using shell corporations to fly drones over major cities for surveillance

Well said Ozzie you get it wedge politics .

Although the Donald has brought up some things like the fact free trade doesn't work i would still be very careful of him and the wedge politic's some are trying to use to influence you all .

There is hope yet for you guys .

---

Those that have entered illegally over the decades have paid into our Social Security fund (under false names so they can work) without getting a dime out of it in retirement.

I disagree. I have a big prblem with anyone from anywhere being here illegally. And useing a fake name and coupled with a social security number can and has posed problems with the real holders of such numners and names.

A few years ago in my loacl news did a story of some one who was called out by Social Security when They retied as being a fraud. Turns out some illeagal in another state was using his name and S.S. Number. So it not harmless.
If you want to move here do it legal. And if your an illegal and get caught you should be deported. But no problem, You will sneak back in a few months.
So much for secure borders. And we worry about spying on our citizens(And I do agree that they should not be spying on us ) when any ner do well can cross the border ? And you feel safe?

---

[/quote]

Old James

Those that have entered illegally over the decades have paid into our Social Security fund (under false names so they can work) without getting a dime out of it in retirement.

I disagree. I have a big prblem with anyone from anywhere being here illegally. And useing a fake name and coupled with a social security number can and has posed problems with the real holders of such numners and names.

I would imagine that is a real problem that needs to be solved. Since these illegals come here to work and get away from the problems of their old country, wouldn't it be better just to give them their own SSN and let them pay into the system legally?

And certainly what does it say about the security of the companies dealing with your social security? In other words, how did those SSN get out in the first place? THAT'S the real problem.

A few years ago in my loacl news did a story of some one who was called out by Social Security when They retied as being a fraud. Turns out some illeagal in another state was using his name and S.S. Number. So it not harmless. If you want to move here do it legal. And if your an illegal and get caught you should be deported. But no problem, You will sneak back in a few months. So much for secure borders.

Back to: it's not like the illegal alien stole the number themselves. They come to this country and get in contact with someone who is willing to give them one. Or worse, they get hired on by a company that knows they're illegal and assigns them one from a previous employee.

Again, social security fraud is a real thing, but you make it sound as if the illegals were the ones who committed the theft in the first place when in most cases they were not.

And we worry about spying on our citizens(And I do agree that they should not be spying on us ) when any ner do well can cross the border ? And you feel safe?

It sounds like you're buying into Trump's claim that all the illegals who enter here are murderers, rapists, and drug lords. I should certainly hope you know better than that sir. Again, don't confuse their willingness to use a SSN to get a job as the same as their willingness to be murderers, rapists, and drug lords. Those that engage in such behaviors are such a small minority of those that enter illegally - and many enter illegally to get away from that environment and a corrupted government!

And I think this viewpoint hints at the racism I mentioned earlier. The bigger question is why do you feel less safe with Latinos and Hispanics than you do the Polish or Russians who enter here illegally? How is this "secure the border" discussion not just a thinly veiled racism against Latino and Hispanic populations?

OzzFan...

I was not apologizing how Immigrant Descendant Americans feel about New Immigrants.

Just pointing out, it is normal.

You're confusing me even more. I saw no apology in your last post, so I didn't read it like one. I'm also not understanding why you feel the need to point out history as if I'm unaware of it. Just because something was done in the past, doesn't mean we can't change it for the better in the future.

A few years ago in my loacl news did a story of some one who was called out by Social Security when They retied as being a fraud. Turns out some illeagal in another state was using his name and S.S. Number. So it not harmless.

It's called Identity theft.
Most immigrants dont have the knowledge how to do it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_theft
Identity theft is quite prevalent in some countries such as the UK where, according to a report in 2008 amounted to 1.2 billion pounds per year, plus unrecorded. In the US, it would have amounted to $ 15 billion in 2006, down from 47 billion (of which 74% with stolen credit cards) in 2003, after measures were taken. The figures include identity theft from credit cards and other documents which are supposed to prove someone's identity for purchases and other transactions. Both countries have traditionally been weak requirements for ID documents, to protect privacy.

I have said this before, and I'll say it again, just in case some are not aware.

I do not dislike immigrants. Only ILLEGAL immigrants.

I am of German descent, and my grandparents on my father's side came here directly from Germany. By the books, all papers signed sealed and delivered.

My mother's parents were Dutch. I am not aware of their exact lineage or their entry into this country.

My only beef has been with those who do NOT enter this country in a legal manner, and yet expect the same rights as those who have.

I suspect this is all I should have to say on this matter from now on.

Please do not ascribe any other opinions about this to me, unless you find fault in what I have just stated.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

No issue. Just a question. Should it be possible for anyone who wants to present themselves at the border, show their medical, pass a criminal check, pay a small fee, and be assigned a number and let in? Like it was when your ancestors came?

---

No issue. Just a question. Should it be possible for anyone who wants to present themselves at the border, show their medical, pass a criminal check, pay a small fee, and be assigned a number and let in? Like it was when your ancestors came?

Or, if the ancestors were early enough, hop on a ship, brave the ocean and worry about falling off the "edge" and when they didn't, land on the opposite shore, stride in (getting water in their boots), walk up and, if someone was there to greet them, say "Hola!"?

I mean, they sure didn't say "Hello!" or "Wie geht es?" at the earliest landings.

No issue. Just a question. Should it be possible for anyone who wants to present themselves at the border, show their medical, pass a criminal check, pay a small fee, and be assigned a number and let in? Like it was when your ancestors came?

I don't see why not.
As long as they are applying legally to this country, I have no problem with admitting them. Let them come. Legally.

Of course, there shall be some who somehow get by the legal crossing and should not be admitted.
But that is always going to be the case.
The ones that walk across without checks and unvetted are the ones I worry about.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

And back to the thread topic..........

I would vote for Trump today.
Because the rest of the riffraf is not anything I would want in office.

Whether you like him or not, he shows a sense of right that has been lacking for far too long. Respect for the constitution, for example.
Yeah, I like him a lot.

There are things he is saying that should have been said a LONG time ago.

I wish him all success in his campaign.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

America today?

"This is the CENTRAL SCRUTINIZER . . . it is my responsibility to enforce all the laws that haven't been passed yet. It is also my responsibility to alert each and every one of you to the potential consequences of various ordinary everyday activities you might be performing which could eventually lead to The Death Penalty (or affect your parent's credit rating). Our criminal institutions are full of little creeps like you who do wrong things . . . and many of them were driven to these crimes by a horrible force called MUSIC!

Our studies have shown that this horrible force is so dangerous to society at large that laws are being drawn up at this very moment to stop it forever! Cruel and inhuman punishments are being carefully described in tiny paragraphs so they won't conflict with the Constitution (which, itself, is being modified in order to accomodate THE FUTURE).

I bring you now a special presentation to show what can happen to you if you choose a career in MUSIC . . . The WHITE ZONE is for loading and unloading only . . . if you have to load or unload, go to the WHITE ZONE . . . you'll love it . . . it's a way of life . . .

Hi, it's me, I'm back. This is the CENTRAL SCRUTINIZER . . . The WHITE ZONE is for loading and unloading only . . . if you gotta load or if you gotta unload, go to the WHITE ZONE . . . you'll love it . . . it's a way of life . . . that's right! You'll love it, it's a way of life, that's right, you'll love it, a way of life, right, love it . . . This is the CENTRAL SCRUTINIZER"

...I do not dislike immigrants. Only ILLEGAL immigrants. ...

Mark, within the last few days you have made the following public statements:

...By 20, no insurance agency on the planet would ensure me. ...

(Wrong use of insure/ensure, by the way.)

...I drove for couple of years.......no liscense ...

(I believe you meant "license", by the way.)

...I flat outran the cops once about 30 years ago. ...

Given those three very recent posts, I find your sudden self-proclaimed respect for our legal system to be somewhat questionable.

Some of my friends are wondering when The Donald
may decide that he loves Canadians. Perhaps he
might like to force us to pay for those pesky winter
snow storms?

:):)



edit:
Up here every one knows that hot weather
attracts the cold from the arctic....

---

No issue. Just a question. Should it be possible for anyone who wants to present themselves at the border, show their medical, pass a criminal check, pay a small fee, and be assigned a number and let in? Like it was when your ancestors came?

I don't see why not.
As long as they are applying legally to this country, I have no problem with admitting them. Let them come. Legally.

Great, then you support an amnesty program allowing them all to become legal provided they can pass those prerequisite checks.

Of course, there shall be some who somehow get by the legal crossing and should not be admitted.
But that is always going to be the case.
The ones that walk across without checks and unvetted are the ones I worry about.

Illegal Russian and European immigrants do not have the benefit of simply walking across the border and I suspect they're just as likely to commit crimes as any other person.

So if Trump gets the nomination, who do you think he'll pick for a running mate?

His kids? ;-)

EDIT: I would like to take this opportunity to +1 at Ozzfan for his recent posts in this thread.

No issue. Just a question. Should it be possible for anyone who wants to present themselves at the border, show their medical, pass a criminal check, pay a small fee, and be assigned a number and let in? Like it was when your ancestors came?

I don't see why not.
As long as they are applying legally to this country, I have no problem with admitting them. Let them come. Legally.

Great, then you support an amnesty program allowing them all to become legal provided they can pass those prerequisite checks.

I agree.

Does msattler agree?

If he did, he probably would've responded by now. (A little lesson in the posting habits of individual users. Signed, Hari Seldon.)

Those that have entered illegally over the decades have paid into our Social Security fund (under false names so they can work) without getting a dime out of it in retirement.

I disagree. I have a big prblem with anyone from anywhere being here illegally. And useing a fake name and coupled with a social security number can and has posed problems with the real holders of such numners and names.

I would imagine that is a real problem that needs to be solved. Since these illegals come here to work and get away from the problems of their old country, wouldn't it be better just to give them their own SSN and let them pay into the system legally?

And certainly what does it say about the security of the companies dealing with your social security? In other words, how did those SSN get out in the first place? THAT'S the real problem.

A few years ago in my loacl news did a story of some one who was called out by Social Security when They retied as being a fraud. Turns out some illeagal in another state was using his name and S.S. Number. So it not harmless. If you want to move here do it legal. And if your an illegal and get caught you should be deported. But no problem, You will sneak back in a few months. So much for secure borders.

Back to: it's not like the illegal alien stole the number themselves. They come to this country and get in contact with someone who is willing to give them one. Or worse, they get hired on by a company that knows they're illegal and assigns them one from a previous employee.

Again, social security fraud is a real thing, but you make it sound as if the illegals were the ones who committed the theft in the first place when in most cases they were not.

And we worry about spying on our citizens(And I do agree that they should not be spying on us ) when any ner do well can cross the border ? And you feel safe?

It sounds like you're buying into Trump's claim that all the illegals who enter here are murderers, rapists, and drug lords. I should certainly hope you know better than that sir. Again, don't confuse their willingness to use a SSN to get a job as the same as their willingness to be murderers, rapists, and drug lords. Those that engage in such behaviors are such a small minority of those that enter illegally - and many enter illegally to get away from that environment and a corrupted government!

And I think this viewpoint hints at the racism I mentioned earlier. The bigger question is why do you feel less safe with Latinos and Hispanics than you do the Polish or Russians who enter here illegally? How is this "secure the border" discussion not just a thinly veiled racism against Latino and Hispanic populations?

No Im not buying into Trumps stand that all illegals are criminals and tyhe other vile crap he said. I also realize that someone else supplies them with fake SS numbers. Your point of Giving them one on enrty is well taken. Providing They came here legally.
As to what to do with the ones here illegal. Im not sure what should be done.
Do they have jobs? any U.S. born children? Are they law abiding?
I know the majority are hard working folks just trying to make a better life.
Maybe the problem is our quotas on immigrants? Or is it the rich company or indivudal just trying to save some $ on labor?

---

[/quote]

Old James

No issue. Just a question. Should it be possible for anyone who wants to present themselves at the border, show their medical, pass a criminal check, pay a small fee, and be assigned a number and let in? Like it was when your ancestors came?

I don't see why not.
As long as they are applying legally to this country, I have no problem with admitting them. Let them come. Legally.

Great, then you support an amnesty program allowing them all to become legal provided they can pass those prerequisite checks.

I agree.

Does msattler agree?

If he did, he probably would've responded by now. (A little lesson in the posting habits of individual users. Signed, Hari Seldon.)

Well, it is Friday night.

---

Maybe the problem is our quotas on immigrants?

Good god man are you daft?!!! You know it is forbidden to discuss the real problems and solutions. You must use beat around the shrub smoke and mirrors to befuddle voters!

Yes, that is the problem in a nutshell. Started a long time ago with the xenophobic racist Chinese Exclusion Act and has never stopped. Just the target of the hate and vitriol. But it makes such political hay to call them monkeys and such.

---

...I do not dislike immigrants. Only ILLEGAL immigrants. ...

Mark, within the last few days you have made the following public statements:

...By 20, no insurance agency on the planet would ensure me. ...

(Wrong use of insure/ensure, by the way.)

...I drove for couple of years.......no liscense ...

(I believe you meant "license", by the way.)

...I flat outran the cops once about 30 years ago. ...

Given those three very recent posts, I find your sudden self-proclaimed respect for our legal system to be somewhat questionable.

I do what I have to do to survive.
You wanna be me???
I don't think so.
My life is quite different than many.

And you do not want to be me or try to work it.
You really do not.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster