Question about Wu's

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Message 1641395 - Posted: 13 Feb 2015, 19:36:24 UTC
Last modified: 13 Feb 2015, 19:59:43 UTC

I have a puzzling question about a few work units ive been getting lately.

Some Wu's work fine, no problems.
but ive also gotten a few that raises concerns.

ive had some showing remaining (estimated) times like 7 hours 55 minutes.
which seem normal, but even after them running for 9 hours and showing
elapsed time of 9 hours the remaining (estimated) time would still be like
4 to 5 hours more.

i let a few of these run all night for at least an additional 6 to 7 hours
but the wu would NOT finish, even after over 14 hours in total running.
i checked the graphics display and nothing at all showed like data.
like the wu was all blank or empty.

is there a chance that i am getting "bad" or "corrupted" Wu's ?

some wu's do finish and also show the graphics just fine.

but i do get some as mentioned above, that never seem to complete,
and do not show any data or graphics.
(which i aborted as you can see in my tasks)


ideas?
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Message 1641414 - Posted: 13 Feb 2015, 20:28:35 UTC

You've had a few "vlars". These take a lot longer, and are more variable in run time, than "normal" MB work units. As a result the estimates for these are almost always wildly inaccurate, so don't abort them, just let them run.
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Message 1641444 - Posted: 13 Feb 2015, 21:37:30 UTC - in response to Message 1641414.  
Last modified: 13 Feb 2015, 21:47:19 UTC

hi rob,
are the "vlars" supposed to display any progress info ?
like "searching for pulses", drift rate and that stuff ?

because on the ones in question, they look like a "dead signal"
and only show my cpu time when i click the graphics.
i had some incomplete Wu's that were over 15 hours and still unfinished.
(yet they showed "estimated" 7 hours when i first started them)

so it was concerning that the time would take so long to finish 1 wu,
when "normal" ones are done within 8 hours.
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Message 1641771 - Posted: 14 Feb 2015, 9:07:45 UTC

I can't answer your first question, I never use the graphics, preferring the more informative "advanced" view.
Second question - I've had one run in over four hours (I went out before it had finished, when it was at about 60%) compared to the more normal one to two hours to completion.
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Message 1641794 - Posted: 14 Feb 2015, 9:53:25 UTC - in response to Message 1641771.  

hi rob,
i have 2 running currently, one is ok, shows graphics and all.
but 14fe13ab.18565.14789.438086664197.12.53_1 is doing same as the other one.

when i 1st started the Wu it said "remaining estimated" time just over 2 hours,

Now at 44% done, and 1:42 minutes elapsed time,
it still shows 2 hours and 6 minutes for "remaining estimated" time.

being curious, i started up the graphics and there is nothing showing.

it just shows like doppler drift rate: 0,0000 hz/s
resolution 1#0.hz overall 0.000% done and CPU time 1 hr 42 min

i will let it run as you suggested before and see if it finishes or not.
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Message 1641836 - Posted: 14 Feb 2015, 13:13:53 UTC - in response to Message 1641794.  

Read this and decide if you see the same:
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=75617&postid=1571978#1571978



- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
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Message 1641981 - Posted: 14 Feb 2015, 19:54:12 UTC - in response to Message 1641836.  
Last modified: 14 Feb 2015, 20:52:56 UTC

Hi BilBg,
thanks for the reply,
I tried 1 of the "optimized app" linked in that post but it messed things up.

I had to remove the "optimized app" and go back to a stock BOINC.
i lost 4 tasks in the process as they would not suspend or abort
in the "optimized app" and they ended up abandoned.

things seem ok at the moment, but need to see how it goes with new tasks.
I got 4 more that say "remaining estimated" 2 hours 52 min each.
The 2 im doing right now show graphics fine to (can only do 2 at a time).
i'm skeptical on the time though as they usually take up around 7 hours,

im kind of expecting the "remaining estimated" time to increase to over 8 hours.
like the ones i mentioned earlier.
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Message 1642801 - Posted: 16 Feb 2015, 9:40:53 UTC - in response to Message 1641981.  
Last modified: 16 Feb 2015, 9:50:43 UTC

I tried 1 of the "optimized app" linked in that post but it messed things up.

I said "Read and see" - not 'apply'
The thread was only to inform you about the possibility of "hang in 'Optimal function choice' routine"
The links there are for Linux (as the poster there is using Linux)

For you it is easier - for Windows there are installers:

Look here for "Installer v0.43a"
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=71867&postid=1596404#1596404

Note: The CPU apps in the Installer are much faster but do not have graphics


i'm skeptical on the time though as they usually take up around 7 hours,

The complexity of computations (and 'Run time') depend on "angle range"

Some of your tasks:
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/results.php?hostid=7487541&offset=0&show_names=0&state=2&appid=

I see now one that computed in ~9,900 s (Run time 2 hours 45 min) - WU true angle range is : 2.657897
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/result.php?resultid=3975294806

... and some that computed in ~27,000 s (Run time 7 hours 45 min) - WU true angle range is : 0.432601
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/result.php?resultid=3973191411

That is normal difference in Run time



- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
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Message 1644432 - Posted: 20 Feb 2015, 11:05:15 UTC - in response to Message 1642801.  
Last modified: 20 Feb 2015, 11:06:57 UTC

hi BilBg,

Look here for "Installer v0.43a"

that was the one i downloaded.

Note: The CPU apps in the Installer are much faster but do not have graphics

yes i noticed there was no graphics in v0.43a.
but being new to this, i was unaware of that and thought it was an issue.
now i realize its the way the program was and not really an issue.

I installed an original BOINC version along with "boinc tasks".
and all seems to be working ok now. (including graphics)

I also understand now why the tasks take longer sometimes.
thanks for the explanation.
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Message 1645103 - Posted: 21 Feb 2015, 22:02:24 UTC

I understand the Wu's take a while but this last one i tried was ridiculous.
its estimated time was only 7 hours, But i aborted it after 21 hours.
if i tried to let it complete it would be over 24 hours.
That just seemed ridiculously long to complete 1 work unit.

I dont know if that was normal or if im experiencing some pc related issues,
but here is a link to the Wu (while it lasts)

23jn12aa.17322.315035.438086664207.12.7_0

i noticed under the debugger section it shows "GetLastError = 126"
which means nothing to me, im not a code geek or anything, so i dont know.

i just try to do the ones i can and abort the ones that dont seem to work for me.
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Message 1645268 - Posted: 22 Feb 2015, 12:42:00 UTC - in response to Message 1645103.  

This is hang in 'Optimal function choices' - only one line printed: "v_BaseLineSmooth (no other)"
(in fact no real progress in the task was made despite (new) BOINC may show 'progress' >0%)

Normally 5 lines will be printed:
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/result.php?resultid=3988453646


I already said a way to detect this condition: "After app Hangs - most of the CPU time/load (~70%) is in Kernel mode (SIV, Process Explorer):"
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=75617&postid=1577361#1577361

Do you see the same? (my test was on slow 524 MHz AMD K6-2+)


Also:
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=75617&postid=1571978#1571978

"'Optimal function choice' do not depend on the task itself (so hang may happen again with any task)
This test is done before the app even looks at the task data

Suspend/Restart it (wait a few minutes after Restart)
Look in stderr.txt to see the printed functions (Optimal function choices) in the table
(do Suspend/Restart a few times if needed)
"


Also:
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=75617&postid=1575344#1575344

"Of course it will happen, it don't depend on task, it depend on app
This is long existing problem with 'Optimal function choices' test on AMD CPUs
(sometimes the test hangs, sometimes not. On some systems it hangs a lot, on some - never/rarely)
"


The "Installer v0.43a" is the way to avoid this.



- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
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Message 1645417 - Posted: 22 Feb 2015, 21:37:37 UTC - in response to Message 1645268.  

hi BilBg,
i am not a code guru or anything, just a normal pc user.

but im guessing from what your telling me that i am better off to use one of
the apps from http://lunatics.kwsn.net/index.php?module=Downloads;catd=9
for my windows machine like the "Lunatics Installer v0.43a (32-bit)"
since im running a 32 bit windows xp ? (without the graphics options)

and if i keep using the stock boinc as suggested on the seti@home home page,
then i will most likely keep having issues with tasks hanging ?
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Message 1645558 - Posted: 23 Feb 2015, 8:45:17 UTC - in response to Message 1645417.  

"Lunatics Installer v0.43a (32-bit)" since im running a 32 bit windows xp ?

Yes, it contains all the needed apps, just select what you want/need. Screenshots from the previous installer:
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=75391&postid=1555127#1555127

Select ALL of the apps that you use/want to use/can use, not just the CPU SETI@home


and if i keep using the stock boinc as suggested on the seti@home home page,
then i will most likely keep having issues with tasks hanging ?

No. The hang is in the standard/stock SETI@home CPU app, not in BOINC.

Lunatics Installer changes files only in SETI@home directory (<BOINC_Data>\projects\setiathome.berkeley.edu\)
The apps it puts there work under the 'normal' BOINC (and don't vanish when you update BOINC)
No other projects (like Einstein@Home, Asteroids@home, ...) are affected.



- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
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