Space X

Message boards : Science (non-SETI) : Space X
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

1 · 2 · 3 · Next

AuthorMessage
Profile Chris SCrowdfunding Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 40032
Credit: 34,732,345
RAC: 63,418
United Kingdom
Message 1624353 - Posted: 6 Jan 2015, 13:37:55 UTC

ID: 1624353 · Report as offensive
Darth Beaver
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 20 Aug 99
Posts: 6606
Credit: 19,550,270
RAC: 5,250
Australia
Message 1624383 - Posted: 6 Jan 2015, 14:20:11 UTC - in response to Message 1624353.  

Interesting Chris should be a great spectacle when it crashes . Maybe they should ask the U.S airforce as i have herd that they have tried this sort of thing before and it never work well

ID: 1624383 · Report as offensive
Profile Chris SCrowdfunding Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 40032
Credit: 34,732,345
RAC: 63,418
United Kingdom
Message 1624408 - Posted: 6 Jan 2015, 14:54:11 UTC

We will see Glenn .....
ID: 1624408 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary CharpentierCrowdfunding Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 21097
Credit: 30,547,716
RAC: 21,559
United States
Message 1624674 - Posted: 7 Jan 2015, 2:08:11 UTC - in response to Message 1624383.  

Interesting Chris should be a great spectacle when it crashes . Maybe they should ask the U.S airforce as i have herd that they have tried this sort of thing before and it never work well

Yes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDI8SQ2fmLA
ID: 1624674 · Report as offensive
Profile Bob DeWoody
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 May 10
Posts: 2848
Credit: 1,215,344
RAC: 206
United States
Message 1624734 - Posted: 7 Jan 2015, 5:32:58 UTC

On the one hand I hope they succeed, but on the other I wouldn't bet my life on it.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
ID: 1624734 · Report as offensive
Profile LynnProject Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 20 Nov 00
Posts: 11821
Credit: 31,799,583
RAC: 31,206
United States
Message 1625199 - Posted: 7 Jan 2015, 23:47:31 UTC - in response to Message 1624734.  

they have a go..

The fifth official SpaceX cargo mission to the International Space Station under NASA's Commercial Resupply Services contract now is scheduled to launch at 4:47 a.m. EST Saturday, Jan. 10, from Space Launch Complex 40 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida. NASA Television coverage of the launch will begin at 3:30 a.m.
ET Phone Home
ID: 1625199 · Report as offensive
Darth Beaver
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 20 Aug 99
Posts: 6606
Credit: 19,550,270
RAC: 5,250
Australia
Message 1625234 - Posted: 8 Jan 2015, 2:17:37 UTC - in response to Message 1625199.  

Great let's hope there a bit more successful than the other mob ...so far they seem to be

ID: 1625234 · Report as offensive
Nick: ID 666
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 18 May 99
Posts: 11214
Credit: 31,467,725
RAC: 1,599
United Kingdom
Message 1626073 - Posted: 10 Jan 2015, 10:49:07 UTC

If you hadn't noticed it has launched, news on the recovery of the first stage rocket is,
the Rocket made it to drone spaceport ship, but landed hard. Close, but no cigar this time. Bodes well for the future though


http://www.spacex.com/webcast/
ID: 1626073 · Report as offensive
Profile Chris SCrowdfunding Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 40032
Credit: 34,732,345
RAC: 63,418
United Kingdom
Message 1626086 - Posted: 10 Jan 2015, 11:58:16 UTC

ID: 1626086 · Report as offensive
Profile Bob DeWoody
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 May 10
Posts: 2848
Credit: 1,215,344
RAC: 206
United States
Message 1626211 - Posted: 10 Jan 2015, 19:07:27 UTC

That was just the 1st stage booster. I'm waiting for a deorbit burn and vertical landing without parachutes or wings.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
ID: 1626211 · Report as offensive
Profile cov_route
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 13 Sep 12
Posts: 342
Credit: 10,270,618
RAC: 0
Canada
Message 1626242 - Posted: 10 Jan 2015, 20:46:39 UTC - in response to Message 1626211.  

That was just the 1st stage booster. I'm waiting for a deorbit burn and vertical landing without parachutes or wings.

You probably won't see that because you are talking about landing the second stage or the spacecraft itself.

Powered landing of the first stage is feasible (but not easy) for two reasons: the stage has engines by it's nature, and it is relatively low and slow when it separates, so it doesn't need a heavy thermal protection system to get back down. It just needs to carry a small amount of extra fuel for the landing.

The second stage is moving at almost orbital speed when it separates so it would need thermal protection to get down. That adds a serious weight penalty.

The spacecraft has no engines, just thrusters. You would have to add landing engines too it, again, a serious weight penalty.

Not even Musk's billions could finance the development of a fully reusable two-stage. And no government seems to have the courage.
ID: 1626242 · Report as offensive
Profile Bob DeWoody
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 May 10
Posts: 2848
Credit: 1,215,344
RAC: 206
United States
Message 1626286 - Posted: 10 Jan 2015, 23:58:05 UTC

According to the SpaceX website there is a manned vehicle they are building that he claims can reenter under it's own power and make a soft landing anywhere. I think it is BS too.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
ID: 1626286 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary CharpentierCrowdfunding Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 21097
Credit: 30,547,716
RAC: 21,559
United States
Message 1626291 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 0:37:46 UTC - in response to Message 1626211.  

That was just the 1st stage booster. I'm waiting for a deorbit burn and vertical landing without parachutes or wings.

Landings on the moon and comet excepted I assume?

On a body with an atmosphere parachutes are just too easy to slow down. Don't need to lift tons of extra fuel to slow with. But you can cut them off a short distance above ground and land under power.
ID: 1626291 · Report as offensive
Profile Bob DeWoody
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 May 10
Posts: 2848
Credit: 1,215,344
RAC: 206
United States
Message 1626311 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 3:18:17 UTC
Last modified: 11 Jan 2015, 3:22:03 UTC

Musk made it clear that he was talking about a manned landing back on earth without the use of wings or parachutes, strictly on rocket power. I think he is nuts. The vehicle is called Dragon V2 here is a link.
http://www.spacex.com/news/2014/05/30/dragon-v2-spacexs-next-generation-manned-spacecraft
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
ID: 1626311 · Report as offensive
Profile cov_route
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 13 Sep 12
Posts: 342
Credit: 10,270,618
RAC: 0
Canada
Message 1626330 - Posted: 11 Jan 2015, 5:21:49 UTC - in response to Message 1626311.  

Musk made it clear that he was talking about a manned landing back on earth without the use of wings or parachutes, strictly on rocket power.

Ok, not impossible, using the launch abort engines for landing. It will have to be very reliable unless they have 0/0 ejection seats or some other safety strategy for landing.

Boring old reliability & maintainability will be the make or break factors. The shuttle failed because they had to rebuild the engines every flight. Not sexy but the hardest thing to get: long life parts, high performance, high reliability and controlled costs. It's a nightmare actually.

Not impossible but much harder than just making something that will fly. We shall see. And I truly wish them luck.
ID: 1626330 · Report as offensive
KLiKProject Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 31 Mar 14
Posts: 1289
Credit: 9,073,951
RAC: 17,387
Croatia
Message 1626696 - Posted: 12 Jan 2015, 6:56:42 UTC - in response to Message 1626311.  

Musk made it clear that he was talking about a manned landing back on earth without the use of wings or parachutes, strictly on rocket power. I think he is nuts. The vehicle is called Dragon V2 here is a link.
http://www.spacex.com/news/2014/05/30/dragon-v2-spacexs-next-generation-manned-spacecraft

That it all it takes...a 1 nutcase deteminded to succed! ;)

non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU
ID: 1626696 · Report as offensive
Dr Who Fan
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 8 Jan 01
Posts: 1179
Credit: 583,438
RAC: 319
United States
Message 1627762 - Posted: 15 Jan 2015, 2:11:35 UTC

SpaceX's Elon Musk Says Rocket Landing Test Ran Out of Hydraulic Fluid

Space.com:
Engineers with the private spaceflight company SpaceX are still trying to piece together what went wrong with a reusable rocket test Saturday, but the company's founder Elon Musk said Sunday (Jan. 11) that the rocket's steering fins ran out of hydraulic fluid during the attempt. Knowing that, Musk said that there's a better chance of a successful landing during a future test.

ID: 1627762 · Report as offensive
Profile Bob DeWoody
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 May 10
Posts: 2848
Credit: 1,215,344
RAC: 206
United States
Message 1627807 - Posted: 15 Jan 2015, 5:12:56 UTC

Coming back to earth from space after being in orbit will continue to be risky business no matter which form of re-entry is used. That is, until or unless a way to neutralize the effect of gravity is discovered.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
ID: 1627807 · Report as offensive
Profile JakeTheDog
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 3 Nov 13
Posts: 138
Credit: 2,301,636
RAC: 327
United States
Message 1627816 - Posted: 15 Jan 2015, 5:39:46 UTC

What I don't get is what difference the shortfall of hydraulic fluid had to do with a crash landing. I thought the fins help slow and steer the rocket. So if the rocket hit the floating pad, which has like a 30-foot margin of error on each side of the rocket when the rocket reaches it, then wouldn't that mean the fins had already completed their jobs of accurately aiming the rocket? And wouldn't it then fall to the engines and other features to actually perform the landing? Unless the fins continue to slow the rocket very close to sea level so that the engines can fire at a very specific velocity. But if the fins were locked into place, wouldn't they still be producing the right amount of drag, as the rocket still hit the target? Or do the landing legs share hydraulic fluid with the fins, and having fluid in the legs was that important in allowing the rocket to survive landing? The tweets and Musk's audio interviews about the mission didn't make mention of the landing legs.

Anyway, SpaceX seems like they will be trying this with every launch now. Next one is going to be about first week of February. I'm also skeptical about how much reusability a rocket can have. Musk is quoted saying he hopes to reuse rockets 1000x, to bring costs down to 1% or less than what costs are now. And to be able to relaunch within the same day, with minor maintenance. It feels hard to believe that all those precision parts can fully function after so many high stress cycles. Maybe reusability can be high, but not 1000x. Or maybe Musk and his team will figure out how to do it. Either way, I think SpaceX will really change the future of aerospace tech. They seem to have already challenged how the business and day to day operations of aerospace works.
ID: 1627816 · Report as offensive
Profile Chris SCrowdfunding Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 19 Nov 00
Posts: 40032
Credit: 34,732,345
RAC: 63,418
United Kingdom
Message 1627849 - Posted: 15 Jan 2015, 8:14:40 UTC

that the rocket's steering fins ran out of hydraulic fluid during the attempt.

I would have thought that the fins steer more than provide drag to slow down.

That is, until or unless a way to neutralize the effect of gravity is discovered.

I don't think that is the real issue Bob. Landing from an Earth orbit means the transition from airless space to an atmosphere which gets denser nearer the ground. Also look at the speeds of returning craft relative to the ground. It is the combination of this speed plus air friction that heats up a craft, which is why the shuttles had those tiles all underneath it.

To land it is necessary to reduce both height and speed together so some form of retro rockets will obviously help. The way forward needs to be something like Thunderbird one, and Blofeld's spaceship in You only Live Twice.
ID: 1627849 · Report as offensive
1 · 2 · 3 · Next

Message boards : Science (non-SETI) : Space X


 
©2017 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.