'Service installation' applies to the way you chose to install the BOINC client software - nothing to do with us. With the combination you've listed, if you chose to install BOINC as a service, then your GPU will not be visible to BOINC, and BOINC programs won't be able to use it. That's a fundamental property of the way graphics drivers are handled in Windows Vista, 7, 8(.1), and probably all currently imaginable future versions of Windows.

Even if you installed the Lunatics applications on top of a service installation of BOINC, they would do nada, nothing, zilch. So this time, we've decided to save you the trouble of four useless mouse clicks, and skipped directly to the installation page - the CPU apps will be the only apps you can use for SETI, if you have BOINC installed as a service.

Is it possible to set up Boinc as a service but with a delayed start? Or maybe to write a script that runs as a service that is instructed to wait for 2 minutes (or whatever would work) after system startup and then start Boinc?

---

David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

'Service installation' applies to the way you chose to install the BOINC client software - nothing to do with us. With the combination you've listed, if you chose to install BOINC as a service, then your GPU will not be visible to BOINC, and BOINC programs won't be able to use it. That's a fundamental property of the way graphics drivers are handled in Windows Vista, 7, 8(.1), and probably all currently imaginable future versions of Windows.

Even if you installed the Lunatics applications on top of a service installation of BOINC, they would do nada, nothing, zilch. So this time, we've decided to save you the trouble of four useless mouse clicks, and skipped directly to the installation page - the CPU apps will be the only apps you can use for SETI, if you have BOINC installed as a service.

Is it possible to set up Boinc as a service but with a delayed start? Or maybe to write a script that runs as a service that is instructed to wait for 2 minutes (or whatever would work) after system startup and then start Boinc?

It's not about the timing of the loading of the software. A service is a process that loads first, before logon, and runs in a different context (as a SYSTEM process). The GPU driver (and the required functionality for GPU computing) now runs in the user context after logon. For security and stability reasons, the two contexts are not allowed to interact with each other.

After running this for a day or two a couple of observations. My very old XP machine shows no diff that I can see between 41 qnd 42. The W7 machine wow. Unblanked APs used to take 4 hrs on the GT430 now 2.5 hrs, the CPU was 10 hrs now 9. That is a major upgrade.

---

Thanks for the new installer, I tried the new apps under Windows and they are working very fine. :)

I do have a question - are there going to be updated Linux builds? All I could find were older builds or non-GPU versions - but I'd like to utilize my AMD GPU under Linux as well.

Thanks in advance for any information!

Thanks for the new installer, I tried the new apps under Windows and they are working very fine. :)

I do have a question - are there going to be updated Linux builds? All I could find were older builds or non-GPU versions - but I'd like to utilize my AMD GPU under Linux as well.

Thanks in advance for any information!

Look here: http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/beta/apps.php under AstroPulse v7 section.

All those one can expect to be available when v7 will be deployed to main. Quite versatile collection IMHO.

'Service installation' applies to the way you chose to install the BOINC client software - nothing to do with us. With the combination you've listed, if you chose to install BOINC as a service, then your GPU will not be visible to BOINC, and BOINC programs won't be able to use it. That's a fundamental property of the way graphics drivers are handled in Windows Vista, 7, 8(.1), and probably all currently imaginable future versions of Windows.

Even if you installed the Lunatics applications on top of a service installation of BOINC, they would do nada, nothing, zilch. So this time, we've decided to save you the trouble of four useless mouse clicks, and skipped directly to the installation page - the CPU apps will be the only apps you can use for SETI, if you have BOINC installed as a service.

Is it possible to set up Boinc as a service but with a delayed start? Or maybe to write a script that runs as a service that is instructed to wait for 2 minutes (or whatever would work) after system startup and then start Boinc?

It's not about the timing of the loading of the software. A service is a process that loads first, before logon, and runs in a different context (as a SYSTEM process). The GPU driver (and the required functionality for GPU computing) now runs in the user context after logon. For security and stability reasons, the two contexts are not allowed to interact with each other.

I just checked this out on my w7 box. boinc runs under Task Scheduler. There is an option to delay it for varying times; I set it for 1 minute and restarted. I logged on as soon as I could and thought "ah hah!" as I saw the GPU tasks running. But then I tried it again, waiting a few minutes to log on. Sure enough, it failed to find the GPU.

Oh well.

---

David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

'Service installation' applies to the way you chose to install the BOINC client software - nothing to do with us. With the combination you've listed, if you chose to install BOINC as a service, then your GPU will not be visible to BOINC, and BOINC programs won't be able to use it. That's a fundamental property of the way graphics drivers are handled in Windows Vista, 7, 8(.1), and probably all currently imaginable future versions of Windows.

Even if you installed the Lunatics applications on top of a service installation of BOINC, they would do nada, nothing, zilch. So this time, we've decided to save you the trouble of four useless mouse clicks, and skipped directly to the installation page - the CPU apps will be the only apps you can use for SETI, if you have BOINC installed as a service.

Is it possible to set up Boinc as a service but with a delayed start? Or maybe to write a script that runs as a service that is instructed to wait for 2 minutes (or whatever would work) after system startup and then start Boinc?

It's not about the timing of the loading of the software. A service is a process that loads first, before logon, and runs in a different context (as a SYSTEM process). The GPU driver (and the required functionality for GPU computing) now runs in the user context after logon. For security and stability reasons, the two contexts are not allowed to interact with each other.

I just checked this out on my w7 box. boinc runs under Task Scheduler. There is an option to delay it for varying times; I set it for 1 minute and restarted. I logged on as soon as I could and thought "ah hah!" as I saw the GPU tasks running. But then I tried it again, waiting a few minutes to log on. Sure enough, it failed to find the GPU.

Oh well.

There's a timing issue in Linux, where GPUs can be used *provided* the graphical interface (X-server) and GPU drivers have finished loading before you (or BOINC) attempts to query their properties.

But under Windows, the issue is one of security, not timing.

'Service installation' applies to the way you chose to install the BOINC client software - nothing to do with us. With the combination you've listed, if you chose to install BOINC as a service, then your GPU will not be visible to BOINC, and BOINC programs won't be able to use it. That's a fundamental property of the way graphics drivers are handled in Windows Vista, 7, 8(.1), and probably all currently imaginable future versions of Windows.

Even if you installed the Lunatics applications on top of a service installation of BOINC, they would do nada, nothing, zilch. So this time, we've decided to save you the trouble of four useless mouse clicks, and skipped directly to the installation page - the CPU apps will be the only apps you can use for SETI, if you have BOINC installed as a service.

Is it possible to set up Boinc as a service but with a delayed start? Or maybe to write a script that runs as a service that is instructed to wait for 2 minutes (or whatever would work) after system startup and then start Boinc?

It's not about the timing of the loading of the software. A service is a process that loads first, before logon, and runs in a different context (as a SYSTEM process). The GPU driver (and the required functionality for GPU computing) now runs in the user context after logon. For security and stability reasons, the two contexts are not allowed to interact with each other.

I just checked this out on my w7 box. boinc runs under Task Scheduler.

Just for elaboration... when you say BOINC runs under Task Scheduler, you mean that you manually added it to Task Scheduler, and more specifically you added BOINC Manager and/or BOINC Core Client? And it still holds true that a BOINC service install runs the Core Client under the SYSTEM process?

'Service installation' applies to the way you chose to install the BOINC client software - nothing to do with us. With the combination you've listed, if you chose to install BOINC as a service, then your GPU will not be visible to BOINC, and BOINC programs won't be able to use it. That's a fundamental property of the way graphics drivers are handled in Windows Vista, 7, 8(.1), and probably all currently imaginable future versions of Windows.

Even if you installed the Lunatics applications on top of a service installation of BOINC, they would do nada, nothing, zilch. So this time, we've decided to save you the trouble of four useless mouse clicks, and skipped directly to the installation page - the CPU apps will be the only apps you can use for SETI, if you have BOINC installed as a service.

Is it possible to set up Boinc as a service but with a delayed start? Or maybe to write a script that runs as a service that is instructed to wait for 2 minutes (or whatever would work) after system startup and then start Boinc?

It's not about the timing of the loading of the software. A service is a process that loads first, before logon, and runs in a different context (as a SYSTEM process). The GPU driver (and the required functionality for GPU computing) now runs in the user context after logon. For security and stability reasons, the two contexts are not allowed to interact with each other.

I just checked this out on my w7 box. boinc runs under Task Scheduler.

Just for elaboration... when you say BOINC runs under Task Scheduler, you mean that you manually added it to Task Scheduler, and more specifically you added BOINC Manager and/or BOINC Core Client? And it still holds true that a BOINC service install runs the Core Client under the SYSTEM process?

I don't remember what choices I made or anything else I may have done when I originally installed Boinc. I can tell you that as it is currently, Boinc Manager Advanced > Options > General > Run Manager at login is checked; and that there is a Windows scheduled task to start Boinc at system startup. The practical result of this is that Boinc Manager is already running when I log on, but without the GPU.

[edit for clarity] The scheduled task runs boinc.exe

---

David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

Is it possible to set up Boinc as a service but with a delayed start? Or maybe to write a script that runs as a service that is instructed to wait for 2 minutes (or whatever would work) after system startup and then start Boinc?

It's not about the timing of the loading of the software. A service is a process that loads first, before logon, and runs in a different context (as a SYSTEM process). The GPU driver (and the required functionality for GPU computing) now runs in the user context after logon. For security and stability reasons, the two contexts are not allowed to interact with each other.

I just checked this out on my w7 box. boinc runs under Task Scheduler.

Just for elaboration... when you say BOINC runs under Task Scheduler, you mean that you manually added it to Task Scheduler, and more specifically you added BOINC Manager and/or BOINC Core Client? And it still holds true that a BOINC service install runs the Core Client under the SYSTEM process?

I don't remember what choices I made or anything else I may have done when I originally installed Boinc. I can tell you that as it is currently, Boinc Manager Advanced > Options > General > Run Manager at login is checked; and that there is a Windows scheduled task to start Boinc at system startup. The practical result of this is that Boinc Manager is already running when I log on, but without the GPU.

[edit for clarity] The scheduled task runs boinc.exe

Still leaves the one unanswered question so as to not confuse anyone reading: choosing a service install of BOINC does not create a scheduled task, rather you had to create that yourself for this test you did, correct?

Is it possible to set up Boinc as a service but with a delayed start? Or maybe to write a script that runs as a service that is instructed to wait for 2 minutes (or whatever would work) after system startup and then start Boinc?

It's not about the timing of the loading of the software. A service is a process that loads first, before logon, and runs in a different context (as a SYSTEM process). The GPU driver (and the required functionality for GPU computing) now runs in the user context after logon. For security and stability reasons, the two contexts are not allowed to interact with each other.

I just checked this out on my w7 box. boinc runs under Task Scheduler.

Just for elaboration... when you say BOINC runs under Task Scheduler, you mean that you manually added it to Task Scheduler, and more specifically you added BOINC Manager and/or BOINC Core Client? And it still holds true that a BOINC service install runs the Core Client under the SYSTEM process?

I don't remember what choices I made or anything else I may have done when I originally installed Boinc. I can tell you that as it is currently, Boinc Manager Advanced > Options > General > Run Manager at login is checked; and that there is a Windows scheduled task to start Boinc at system startup. The practical result of this is that Boinc Manager is already running when I log on, but without the GPU.

[edit for clarity] The scheduled task runs boinc.exe

Still leaves the one unanswered question so as to not confuse anyone reading: choosing a service install of BOINC does not create a scheduled task, rather you had to create that yourself for this test you did, correct?

Not for this test, no. That's the way it's been running on my box for as long as I've had it.

Whether I installed it as a service originally, I can't remember. I would put the odds at about 2:1 that I did not.

---

David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

Just for elaboration... when you say BOINC runs under Task Scheduler, you mean that you manually added it to Task Scheduler, and more specifically you added BOINC Manager and/or BOINC Core Client? And it still holds true that a BOINC service install runs the Core Client under the SYSTEM process?

I don't remember what choices I made or anything else I may have done when I originally installed Boinc. I can tell you that as it is currently, Boinc Manager Advanced > Options > General > Run Manager at login is checked; and that there is a Windows scheduled task to start Boinc at system startup. The practical result of this is that Boinc Manager is already running when I log on, but without the GPU.

[edit for clarity] The scheduled task runs boinc.exe

Still leaves the one unanswered question so as to not confuse anyone reading: choosing a service install of BOINC does not create a scheduled task, rather you had to create that yourself for this test you did, correct?

Not for this test, no. That's the way it's been running on my box for as long as I've had it.

Whether I installed it as a service originally, I can't remember. I would put the odds at about 2:1 that I did not.

Interesting. I've never seen it setup under Task Scheduler on any of my systems. I see you're still using BOINC v6.10.58 and 6.10.60.

Still leaves the one unanswered question so as to not confuse anyone reading: choosing a service install of BOINC does not create a scheduled task, rather you had to create that yourself for this test you did, correct?

Not for this test, no. That's the way it's been running on my box for as long as I've had it.

So you didn't setup BOINC in Task Scheduler for this test, but you did setup it up previously and this was not done by the BOINC installer, correct?

Whether I installed it as a service originally, I can't remember. I would put the odds at about 2:1 that I did not.

You would have had to select a service install at some point in order for BOINC to install as a service. I think it was the default option on previous versions of BOINC for a while, and as you keep upgrading, it tries to keep that option if that's how you currently have it installed. Further, I think that unselecting service install and upgrading over an existing service install will still result in BOINC running as a service (don't recall if they fixed that bug or not).

[Edit] As a test, I just happened to have a spare Lenovo T510 laptop lying around that never had BOINC installed on it, as well as a copy of BOINC v6.10.58. I started the installer and I had to manually check the box for service installation, and most certain BOINC was not automatically entered into Task Scheduler.

Found this in the AP OpenCL Readme.txt -

****Best usage tips****

For best performance it is important to free 2 CPU cores running multiple instances.
Freeing at least 1 CPU core is necessity to get enough GPU usage.*

When I first started using multi GPUs with multi tasks (v0.41) I was using .5 CPU & .5 GPU in the app_config.xml and it was strongly suggested that I increase the CPU usage to 1 to prevent kernel thrashing. Now, I'm seeing above that that is not the case and I can run .5 CPU & .5 GPU or even .33 GPU under v0.42. Right now I'm running with 1 CPU & .33 GPU per device, which uses 1 core for each task on a GTX750Ti. I need clarification on this as I would like to free up more cores, if possible, for CPU processing but keep the same number of GPU tasks.

---

I don't buy computers, I build them!!

Found this in the AP OpenCL Readme.txt -

****Best usage tips****

For best performance it is important to free 2 CPU cores running multiple instances.
Freeing at least 1 CPU core is necessity to get enough GPU usage.*

When I first started using multi GPUs with multi tasks (v0.41) I was using .5 CPU & .5 GPU in the app_config.xml and it was strongly suggested that I increase the CPU usage to 1 to prevent kernel thrashing. Now, I'm seeing above that that is not the case and I can run .5 CPU & .5 GPU or even .33 GPU under v0.42. Right now I'm running with 1 CPU & .33 GPU per device, which uses 1 core for each task on a GTX750Ti. I need clarification on this as I would like to free up more cores, if possible, for CPU processing but keep the same number of GPU tasks.

You dont need it because you have a fast CPU.
Of course its always good to have some resources left for heavily blanked AP`s.
You are using the sleep switch and it works quite well on your host.

Please consider we need to make sure it works for everybody using the installer and a lot of hosts have rather slow CPU`s.

---

With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.

Still leaves the one unanswered question so as to not confuse anyone reading: choosing a service install of BOINC does not create a scheduled task, rather you had to create that yourself for this test you did, correct?

Not for this test, no. That's the way it's been running on my box for as long as I've had it.

So you didn't setup BOINC in Task Scheduler for this test, but you did setup it up previously and this was not done by the BOINC installer, correct?

Whether I installed it as a service originally, I can't remember. I would put the odds at about 2:1 that I did not.

You would have had to select a service install at some point in order for BOINC to install as a service. I think it was the default option on previous versions of BOINC for a while, and as you keep upgrading, it tries to keep that option if that's how you currently have it installed. Further, I think that unselecting service install and upgrading over an existing service install will still result in BOINC running as a service (don't recall if they fixed that bug or not).

[Edit] As a test, I just happened to have a spare Lenovo T510 laptop lying around that never had BOINC installed on it, as well as a copy of BOINC v6.10.58. I started the installer and I had to manually check the box for service installation, and most certain BOINC was not automatically entered into Task Scheduler.

Well, I think we've drifted far enough away from relevance to the thread. My original question was, can I set Boinc for delayed start so it will find the GPU. The answer is, yes, I can set it for delayed start, but it still doesn't find the GPU so there's no point. I also looked briefly into making the video driver start at startup instead of at login, but I wasn't able to do that. (I didn't put a major effort into it, though.)

---

David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

Well, I think we've drifted far enough away from relevance to the thread. My original question was, can I set Boinc for delayed start so it will find the GPU. The answer is, yes, I can set it for delayed start, but it still doesn't find the GPU so there's no point. I also looked briefly into making the video driver start at startup instead of at login, but I wasn't able to do that. (I didn't put a major effort into it, though.)

If you can do that Microsoft would like to have a word with you.

I have apps from v0.42 running on all of my machines with the exception of my 1 low end mobile ATI GPU.
Seems there are some GPU with max work group size of 128 that ignore -tune command & will be unable to run AP v6 r2399 application.
If you have such a GPU you might want to head over the beta & see if test app works or if there is a different issue.

---

SETI@home classic workunits: 93,865 CPU time: 863,447 hours
Join the [url=http://tinyurl.com/8y46zvu]BP6/VP6 User Group[

Well, I think we've drifted far enough away from relevance to the thread. My original question was, can I set Boinc for delayed start so it will find the GPU. The answer is, yes, I can set it for delayed start, but it still doesn't find the GPU so there's no point. I also looked briefly into making the video driver start at startup instead of at login, but I wasn't able to do that. (I didn't put a major effort into it, though.)

I think your question and our subsequent discussion still holds relevance to the thread. I'm sure you're not the only one that has mistaken the 'service install unable to find GPU' issue as something related to BOINC or the application, and assume that new releases can fix such a thing. I thought it was important to speak up and let people know that this is not a BOINC issue, nor a science app issue, and thus no future releases of BOINC or the Lunatics app will be able to resolve it.

Then when you stated that you had it in Task Scheduler but did not clarify that the installer doesn't put it there, I was concerned that readers would go looking to try the same experiment then think something wasn't installed correctly if it is missing in Task Scheduler. Clarity is the key to avoiding the confusion.

Well, I think we've drifted far enough away from relevance to the thread. My original question was, can I set Boinc for delayed start so it will find the GPU. The answer is, yes, I can set it for delayed start, but it still doesn't find the GPU so there's no point. I also looked briefly into making the video driver start at startup instead of at login, but I wasn't able to do that. (I didn't put a major effort into it, though.)

If you can do that Microsoft would like to have a word with you.

I have apps from v0.42 running on all of my machines with the exception of my 1 low end mobile ATI GPU.
Seems there are some GPU with max work group size of 128 that ignore -tune command & will be unable to run AP v6 r2399 application.
If you have such a GPU you might want to head over the beta & see if test app works or if there is a different issue.

Remember that the test app at Beta, and the development work being put into it, are for Astropulse v7 only. It will not be usable here until the whole AP v7 application transfer has taken place.

(I know you wouldn't be thinking of doing that, HAL, but just pre-empting anyone who might have thought they'd spotted a possibility)

Found this in the AP OpenCL Readme.txt -

****Best usage tips****

For best performance it is important to free 2 CPU cores running multiple instances.
Freeing at least 1 CPU core is necessity to get enough GPU usage.*

When I first started using multi GPUs with multi tasks (v0.41) I was using .5 CPU & .5 GPU in the app_config.xml and it was strongly suggested that I increase the CPU usage to 1 to prevent kernel thrashing. Now, I'm seeing above that that is not the case and I can run .5 CPU & .5 GPU or even .33 GPU under v0.42. Right now I'm running with 1 CPU & .33 GPU per device, which uses 1 core for each task on a GTX750Ti. I need clarification on this as I would like to free up more cores, if possible, for CPU processing but keep the same number of GPU tasks.

You dont need it because you have a fast CPU.
Of course its always good to have some resources left for heavily blanked AP`s.
You are using the sleep switch and it works quite well on your host.

Please consider we need to make sure it works for everybody using the installer and a lot of hosts have rather slow CPU`s.

I've reduced the CPU specs to .5 for AP tasks and there doesn't appear to be any significant change is total run time for those tasks that have been reported. So anyone who has a faster machine who are running AP tasks and desire to increase the number of GPU tasks but reduce the number of cores supporting them this is good news. I did notice that there is a slight fluctuation in GPU usage of 94-99% from a steady 99% , but I can live with that. Memory usage appears to be averaging 759MB out of 2048MB for each device, so I might attempt to increase the number of tasks from .33 to .25 to see if I can use up some of that.

---

I don't buy computers, I build them!!