So how is water vapour causing global warming then?

The same way it prevents heat from my pool water from radiating out into space when it is cloudy at night.

where is your poof of this statement .

Glenn you should do some research on your own. But i will start you off with this article by Patrick Bedard

"Now for an inconvenient truth about CO2 sources — nature generates about 30 times as much of it as does man. Yet the warming worriers are unconcerned about nature's outpouring. They — and Al Gore — are alarmed only about anthropogenic CO2, that 3.2 percent caused by humans.

They like to point fingers at the U.S., which generated about 23 percent of the world's anthropogenic CO2 in 2003, the latest figures from the Energy Information Administration. But this finger-pointing ignores yet another inconvenient truth about CO2. In fact, it's a minor contributor to the greenhouse effect when water vapor is taken into consideration. All the greenhouse gases together, including CO2 and methane, produce less than two percent of the greenhouse effect, according to Richard S. Lindzen of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Lindzen, by the way, is described by one source as "the most renowned climatologist in all the world."

When water vapor is put in that perspective, then anthropogenic CO2 produces less than 0.1 of one percent of the greenhouse effect.

If everyone knows that water vapor is the dominant greenhouse gas, why do Al Gore and so many others focus on CO2? Call it the politics of the possible. Water vapor is almost entirely natural. It's beyond the reach of man's screwdriver. "

then the surface temperature would decrease.

That's right and what I have been saying for many months now. Gases that absorb or block sunlight will tend to cool the Earth. Since sunlight contains many frequencies --it spawns an argument over which ones get through in the first place and which ones are absorbed on the re- radiation in the infra red.

In any event, those of us who used to heat our swimming pool will notice a bigger drop in temperature of pool water when the night is crystal clear as opposed to overcast. Theories may evaporate (pun) when experience puts the lie to shoddy science.

William:

Well, 52% of the solar radiation at the earth's surface *IS* infra-red.

Also,



The Yellow is at Top of Atmosphere. The Red is at the Earth's surface. A bunch of it gets 'absorbed' on the way down... Of course, it doesn't stay 'absorbed' for long, but is (same as Infra-red on the way back up) quickly re-radiated in a random direction (scattered).

It is a distinct possibility that, because of the above, increasing 'GHG' concentrations in the atmosphere could produce global cooling, considering the geometry of the problem. But, at the very least, it is going to mitigate the heck out of any warming.

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https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.

So game, set, and match then eh?

Yes that is correct. If we are warming and it is not cyclic but endemic we will continue on the same path. I say this because regardless of the cause, Solar impingement or Greenhouse gases we can't do anything about them that matters.

I think that water vapor is the most significant "Greenhouse" gas--but if you like you may add Methane and CO-2 (??). In this case mankind contributes somewhat less than 5% to any of these and can't reduce even this small percentage by any appreciable percent without further ruining the economy and way of life of industrialized nations.

So you say, what's to do ?

Build seawalls; (worked for the Dutch)
Enjoy the Northwest Passage for improved trade
Move Northward
Invest in Nuclear power
Super-insulate your homes
Buy electric autos (Got yours yet?)

Not sure how electric car would help, when 70-80% of electric power comes from fossil fuels burning?! :/

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

So how is water vapour causing global warming then?

The same way it prevents heat from my pool water from radiating out into space when it is cloudy at night.

+1

water vapor deflects heat or keeps heat...what you can see is that during the cloudy nights, not much heat is evaporated into Space - check the temp not going 10-20°C between night & day...
but on cloudy nights, heat is not evaporated in Space...it's absorbed & deflected by water vapor in atmosphere...do the temps between night & day go up & down under 10°C!

but still, I wouldn't suggest we keep Earth enclosed into water vapor...it would bring more problems, than not having it at all...
like in all things, balance is the KEY!
;)

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU

Buy electric autos (Got yours yet?)

Not sure how electric car would help, when 70-80% of electric power comes from fossil fuels burning?!

The will to buy electric autos is very low.

83 per cent of electricity production in Sweden comes from nuclear and hydroelectric power. Cogeneration from combined heat and power (CHP) plants accounts for 10 per cent of the electricity output in Sweden, and these are mainly powered by biofuels. About 7 per cent of the electricity comes from wind power.
But still very few buy an electric auto...
As of May 2016, a total of 21,439 plug-in electric vehicles have been registered in Sweden since 2011.
Thats about 0.3% of all vehicles!

It is a distinct possibility that, because of the above, increasing 'GHG' concentrations in the atmosphere could produce global cooling, considering the geometry of the problem. But, at the very least, it is going to mitigate the heck out of any warming.
____________

Yes thats what I have opined as well. Every time the clouds come over I know at once that less solar energy is hitting me. I also seem to notice that the Sun itself now is hotter than when I was a kid. I spent 4 years in Key West Florida 60 years ago. Now I live about 900 miles further North and the Sun seems more intense than what I recall from the distant past.

The will to buy electric autos is very low.

That's right and the will or the ability to take draconian measures is also very low and will have little to no effect on the climate as well.

then the surface temperature would decrease.

That's right and what I have been saying for many months now. Gases that absorb or block sunlight will tend to cool the Earth. Since sunlight contains many frequencies --it spawns an argument over which ones get through in the first place and which ones are absorbed on the re- radiation in the infra red.

In any event, those of us who used to heat our swimming pool will notice a bigger drop in temperature of pool water when the night is crystal clear as opposed to overcast. Theories may evaporate (pun) when experience puts the lie to shoddy science.

William:

Well, 52% of the solar radiation at the earth's surface *IS* infra-red.

Also,



The Yellow is at Top of Atmosphere. The Red is at the Earth's surface. A bunch of it gets 'absorbed' on the way down... Of course, it doesn't stay 'absorbed' for long, but is (same as Infra-red on the way back up) quickly re-radiated in a random direction (scattered).

It is a distinct possibility that, because of the above, increasing 'GHG' concentrations in the atmosphere could produce global cooling, considering the geometry of the problem. But, at the very least, it is going to mitigate the heck out of any warming.

Thanks for that.

However, William denies basic physics...


He and the anti-global-warming conspirators just cannot believe how:

CO2 is transparent at the wavelengths of radiation at the "hot end" from the sun (short wavelengths) and so the CO2 does not impede the sun heating the ground and oceans;

Yet how CO2 is opaque at the longer wavelengths for the heat re-radiated from the ground and oceans.

The net result is that as the CO2 concentration increases, our planet becomes ever more insulated against radiating heat away from the ground and oceans. That is, we get ever warmer until we melt...

For an analogy, our control of the CO2 concentration acts like the semi-transparent force shield of the Star Trek Enterprise that allows some wavelengths to pass through but reflects all others...

For our own heat, we are using CO2 to reflect and trap ever more heat back to the Earth's surface.


Can't believe that can happen?

See: Infrared cut-off filter

Infrared cut-off filters, sometimes called IR filters or heat-absorbing filters, are designed to reflect or block mid-infrared wavelengths while passing visible light. They are often used in devices with bright incandescent light bulbs (such as slide and overhead projectors) to prevent unwanted heating...



All on our only one planet,
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Those CO2 effects are copied by makers of double glazing as well.
Pilkington Glass - How does Energy Saving Glazing work?

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William I just googled Richard S. Lindzen .

here's one of the link that came up on the very first page

https://www.skepticalscience.com/skeptic_Richard_Lindzen.htm

I could put others up as there are many .

so I'm afraid I can not take your information to be any thing other than the line of Big oil and therefore rubbish .

I'll go out on a limb here and ask what your local priest says about GW .I'm thinking your one of them people in the doco

Years of Living Dangerously

Where it clearly shows how many Americans will only believe GW if there local church priest believes it .

The church only believes it's in the contest of the book of Revelations , fire and brimstone and all that .

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I also seem to notice that the Sun itself now is hotter than when I was a kid. I spent 4 years in Key West Florida 60 years ago. Now I live about 900 miles further North and the Sun seems more intense than what I recall from the distant past

Reason is the same as in the southern hemisphere as you go further north or further south the sky starts to fall.

In other words OZONE there is also a hole in the north pole it's not as big as the one in the south but it is there and getting worse and will continue for at least another 40yrs before it starts to get better

more ultraviolet light produces glare and that's why it seems brighter

As for it seeming to be hotter well ultraviolet light BURNs human flesh and you will perceive it as being hotter .

Go outside and sunbake for 15 mins and then feel how hot your skin gets

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Thank you Glenn

I always feel enlightened by your posts.

Martin Luther

Please stop drinking beer and carbonated beverages or I will report you to Al Gore.
If you exercise more than the average Joe or jog you will soon be assessed an excess CO-2 production tax as well.

Thank you Glenn

I always feel enlightened by your posts.

I'm right then seeing as you didn't answer the question what you church says about GW

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I'm right then seeing as you didn't answer the question what you church says about GW

The Church ? Educated people who seek to deceive me about eternal life and an omnipotent deity who listens to our entreaties would be even more likely to deceive me about something that they knew nothing about. The Pope is a Jesuit--he knows better.

All of the warmers may wish to worship at the church of the alarmists.

All of the warmers may wish to worship at the church of the alarmists.

I believe that is the church of the self deception.

The issue is the alarmists have placed man at the center of their universe. They make the universe revolve around man. The warmists say the only thing that has changed is man therefore it must be man causing warming. That is false on its face! It is false because not everything has been shown not to change, nor can it ever be as there are an infinite number of possible things that could change, including the laws of physics.

The correct statement is, among the limited set of things we have tested, man is the only one that has changed, therefore it is either man or some untested thing that is causing warming. This removes man from the center of the universe, but still assumes the causal principal, which some cosmologists argue is false.

Could man cause GW? Yes. Is he? Most likely. Is it CO2, jury out as man has many ways he is causing warming. More likely CO2 is one of many factors. Particulate carbon seems to be a huge factor in ice melt. If man, the cause is too many humans on the planet who are industrialized. Only possible solution is massive inescapable birth control.

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All of the warmers may wish to worship at the church of the alarmists.

I believe that is the church of the self deception.

The issue is the alarmists have placed man at the center of their universe. They make the universe revolve around man. The warmists say the only thing that has changed is man therefore it must be man causing warming. That is false on its face! It is false because not everything has been shown not to change, nor can it ever be as there are an infinite number of possible things that could change, including the laws of physics.

The correct statement is, among the limited set of things we have tested, man is the only one that has changed, therefore it is either man or some untested thing that is causing warming. This removes man from the center of the universe, but still assumes the causal principal, which some cosmologists argue is false.

Could man cause GW? Yes. Is he? Most likely. Is it CO2, jury out as man has many ways he is causing warming. More likely CO2 is one of many factors. Particulate carbon seems to be a huge factor in ice melt. If man, the cause is too many humans on the planet who are industrialized. <FIFY - MK> Only possible solution is massive inescapable birth control.

Regarding 'some untested thing'...

GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS, VOL. 30, NO. 5, 1199, doi:10.1029/2002GL016038, 2003

Secular total solar irradiance trend during solar cycles 21–23


Richard C. Willson
Center for Climate Systems Research, Columbia University, Coronado, California, USA

Alexander V. Mordvinov
Institute of Solar-Terrestrial Physics, Russian Academy of Sciences, Irkutsk, Russia

Received 1 August 2002; revised 18 December 2002; accepted 9 January 2003; published 4 March 2003.

[25]The ~0.05%/decade minimum-to-minimum trend appears to be significant. If so it has profound implications for both solar physics and climatology. For solar physics it means that TSI variability can be caused by unknown mechanisms other than the solar magnetic activity cycle. Much longer time scales for TSI variations are therefore a possibility, which has obvious implications for solar forcing of climate.

[27] Acknowledgments. The National Aeronautics and Space Administration under contract NAS5-97164 provide support for Dr. Willson at Columbia University. Support for Dr. Mordvinov at the Institute of Solar-Terrestrial Physics is provided by the INTAS project 2001–0550.

http://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/2003/2003_Willson_wi02000x.pdf

Cycle 21 Start (minimum): May 1976
Cycle 22 Start (minimum): March 1986
Cycle 23 Start (minimum): June 1996

Hmmm...

An increase in total solar irradiance (TSI) on the order of 0.05% per decade would highly significant.

As you say, the Warmists blame man as the only cause of climate change. The Warmists totally ignore this testing of this thing, which would not only go a great distance towards totally explaining not only the 'global warming' here on Earth, but also the 'warming' in other parts of the solar system, such as Mars.

Hmm....

Remembering the 'global warming hiatus' starting around 1998 or so... I am curious about what the data from the Start of Cycle 24 (Jan. 2008) would show...

Perhaps this TESTED AND MEASURED increase in TSI took a pause... the Sun certainly seems quieter than normal this Cycle (still in #24)...


Yep... The Warmists can't admit to any of this... It would pop the balloon of their most sacred dogma (that they use to justify their desired actions)...

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https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.

Hmm....

Remembering the 'global warming hiatus' starting around 1998 or so... I am curious about what the data from the Start of Cycle 24 (Jan. 2008) would show...

Only about a century out this time, do some research please.

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Buy electric autos (Got yours yet?)

Not sure how electric car would help, when 70-80% of electric power comes from fossil fuels burning?!

The will to buy electric autos is very low.

83 per cent of electricity production in Sweden comes from nuclear and hydroelectric power. Cogeneration from combined heat and power (CHP) plants accounts for 10 per cent of the electricity output in Sweden, and these are mainly powered by biofuels. About 7 per cent of the electricity comes from wind power.
But still very few buy an electric auto...
As of May 2016, a total of 21,439 plug-in electric vehicles have been registered in Sweden since 2011.
Thats about 0.3% of all vehicles!

Just wait for the next "big balloon" which is going to blow son - it's about fuel powered cars!
;)

That's why I'm switching to electric car company, this time next month...

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non-profit org. Play4Life in Zagreb, Croatia, EU