Our country has been plundered,now we have only our children and FREEDOM!

Do you mean FREEDOM as Svoboda, or do you mean Svoboda, a political party in Ukraine?

Of course, in the sense - freedom, liberty and independence country from the usurpers of power and of the communist regime!
I understand Your sarcasm and I want to say:"Ukrainian Association (party) "Svoboda" it has only 1/13 part of the Ukrainian Parliament, government - only couple people, as well as the Attorney General! This liberal nationalist party, which little effect on the country's politics, as everyone says! "

I didn't mean to be sarcastic.
The fact that Ukraina has so many ultra nationalist parties and movements, both in eastern and western parts, is ominous.

I didn't mean to be sarcastic.
The fact that Ukraina has so many ultra nationalist parties and movements, both in eastern and western parts, is ominous.

I don't mean to be sarcastic...

The World is really scared that a Non-Nuclear Ukraine will be invading parts of Russia!!!

Equating the threat from Ukraine with Putin's Russia is very silly, or worse.

I haven't equating Ukraian or Russian threats.
Your nonsense about nuclear weapons has no bearing in this situation.

I didn't mean to be sarcastic.
The fact that Ukraina has so many ultra nationalist parties and movements, both in eastern and western parts, is ominous.

I don't mean to be sarcastic...

The World is really scared that a Non-Nuclear Ukraine will be invading parts of Russia!!!

Equating the threat from Ukraine with Putin's Russia is very silly, or worse.

Are there any wars in history where the weaker army attacks the many more times stronger one and actually do win?

I didn't mean to be sarcastic.
The fact that Ukraina has so many ultra nationalist parties and movements, both in eastern and western parts, is ominous.

I don't mean to be sarcastic...

The World is really scared that a Non-Nuclear Ukraine will be invading parts of Russia!!!

Equating the threat from Ukraine with Putin's Russia is very silly, or worse.

I haven't equating Ukraian or Russian threats.
Your nonsense about nuclear weapons has no bearing in this situation.

Haven't equated Ukraine with Russian Threats?

Then why mention the excuse Putin, and his propaganda machine, continuously shouts? Who cares about the Internal Affairs of Ukraine? Excepting those who wish to give Putin an excuse to kill? Yes... Invasion is killing.

Nuclear weapons nonsense?

When you have an unstable, and incompetent Leader (what else would threaten Astronauts), and who controls Nuclear Weapons: What is he capable of?

Note: Crimea, Crimea, Crimea...

The present silence about the Criminal takeover of Crimea by Putin, from Western Europe, the United States President, and Western European person's in this discussion, is disgusting.

A non-unified country with civil war like state is most likely not capable of solving crimea status. Ukraine asked for help in the beginning of the crimea incident.
They have to demilitarise eastern Ukraine before proceeding.
And that doesn't seem to ge very well since occupants are well trained and well equiped and many in numbers.

The threat from party "Svoboda" - this is a Russian fairy tale for of Europeans and people in Russia! In Ukraine there are more radical parties and social movements, including the pro-Russian of nationalism! Everything about them are silent!
yanneseti, sorry (per my thoughts in respect of sarcasm)!
CLYDE, thanks for Your voice in relation to Crimea...
Add three more "voices"- compelling arguments, in flight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI_52Rk_7jY
Reported by TRN: "April 25, 2014 -- (TRN) -- The United States today deployed three B2 Stealth Bombers to Europe due to growing tensions with Russia involving Ukraine.
"Since the Russians will not take phone calls from Defense Secretary Hagel or President Obama, we have no choice but to send a message in a language they will understand" - said a Pentagon spokesman." Video of aircraft below http://turnerradionetwork.com/news/452-pat
Everything will be fine! Is not it? Though,all bad... :(
Donetsk Oblast: two Mi-24 shot down and one Mi-8 damaged by unknown groups
"Friday, May 2. SLAVYANSK, DONETSK OBLAST – Overnight into May 2, there were shot down two Ukrainian Armed Forces Mi-24 helicopters while patrolling the defined area. According to the preliminary data, the combat wing aircrafts were shot down by unknown persons by means of man-portable air defense system (PZRK). Two servicemen of the Ukrainian Armed forces are dead, several persons are wounded. Besides, one Mi-8 helicopter of Army Aviation, Ukrainian Armed Forces, was damaged by small arms fire. There are no injured and wounded persons in this case. This fact of the PZRK use against the Ukrainian Armed Forces testifies that the well trained and armed groups are currently acting in Donetsk Oblast. They complete terroristic acts trying to destabilize the situation in the region. Neither of them realizes their actions result in deaths and wounds; children become orphans. Such behaviour is common for militaries of other countries or experienced contractors who are ready to act against any person for reimbursement."
Based on materials http://www.mil.gov.ua/index.php?lang=ua&part=news&sub=read&id=34322

Are there any wars in history where the weaker army attacks the many more times stronger one and actually do win?

Yes there are.
Maybe not a total war but single campaigns.
Here is an example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Narva_(1700)

Are there any wars in history where the weaker army attacks the many more times stronger one and actually do win?

Yes.

Which ones?

They have to demilitarise eastern Ukraine before proceeding.
And that doesn't seem to ge very well since occupants are well trained and well equiped and many in numbers.

Ukraine has to demilitarize...

TRuEQ..

I think I am beginning to understand your thinking.

When you use Ukraine when I way "they".
I ofcourse ment the occupants has to be demilitarized.

But since English isn't my native language I can understand that it could be missunderstood. Especcially by you, Clyde.

I wonder why?

"Russia has called for an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council."

Is it because they're getting their butts kicked?

Report

This could be the start of things getting real ugly real quick!

---

I think I am beginning to understand your thinking.

No you don't.

Are there any wars in history where the weaker army attacks the many more times stronger one and actually do win?

Yes there are.
Maybe not a total war but single campaigns.
Here is an example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Narva_(1700)

Thank you.

I wonder why?

"Russia has called for an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council."

Is it because they're getting their butts kicked?

Report

This could be the start of things getting real ugly real quick!

Lets hope for the best.

They have to demilitarise eastern Ukraine before proceeding.
And that doesn't seem to ge very well since occupants are well trained and well equiped and many in numbers.

Ukraine has to demilitarize...

TRuEQ..

I think I am beginning to understand your thinking.

When you use Ukraine when I way "they".
I ofcourse ment the occupants has to be demilitarized.

But since English isn't my native language I can understand that it could be missunderstood. Especcially by you, Clyde.

'THEY' are in the Ukraine. Therefore you say: Part of the Sovereign Country of Ukraine must demilitarize.

I did not misunderstand your thinking.

Demilitarize might be the wrong word I use.
What would the word be for getting rid of the occupant peoples weapon?

Disarming.

Guys, lighten up on the personalities, we don't want to see the thread getting a timeout...

...especially as it's more than possible that we have an insight to grass roots levels which the "official" sites of both sides will not show us.

---

Are there any wars in history where the weaker army attacks the many more times stronger one and actually do win?

If by weaker you mean fewer in numbers there were the Conquistadors.

Why do YOU think Sweden, Finland, Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, Georgia, etc., can win a war with Russia?

Estonia and Latvia yes because of Article 5 in the NATO charter. Of course that doesn't mean US has to help if they invade as Article 5 comes into play only if they are attacked.

---

Demilitarize might be the wrong word I use.
What would the word be for getting rid of the occupant peoples weapon?

Disarming.

I like the Vietnam era term "pacify", it goes way beyond taking their weapons.

---

Sad update :(

Ukraine crisis: Dozens of people killed in building fire, three shot dead in Odessa

Dozens of people were killed in a fire and others were shot dead when fighting between pro and anti-Russian groups broke out on the streets of Odessa on Ukraine's Black Sea coast.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-03/ukraine-crisis-dozens-killed-in-fire-and-shooting/5428060

---

Such a beautiful city and such a terrible thing to happen to those people. I was wondering how long it would be before it turned violent in that city. I know there had been some protest earlier in the year but to see that violence there is more than heartbreaking. I have such fond memories there. I was trying to see where in Odessa the protest were occurring. Hope it's away from the Opera House and the City Center.

I didn't mean to be sarcastic.
The fact that Ukraina has so many ultra nationalist parties and movements, both in eastern and western parts, is ominous.

I don't mean to be sarcastic...

The World is really scared that a Non-Nuclear Ukraine will be invading parts of Russia!!!

Equating the threat from Ukraine with Putin's Russia is very silly, or worse.

Are there any wars in history where the weaker army attacks the many more times stronger one and actually do win?

I would say Attila the Hun and Ghengis Khan would quailfy.

---

[/quote]

Old James

Are there any wars in history where the weaker army attacks the many more times stronger one and actually do win?

If by weaker you mean fewer in numbers there were the Conquistadors.

Why do YOU think Sweden, Finland, Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, Georgia, etc., can win a war with Russia?

Estonia and Latvia yes because of Article 5 in the NATO charter. Of course that doesn't mean US has to help if they invade as Article 5 comes into play only if they are attacked.

The sad part of this:

The US is decimating its Defense Budget, and 'Going Home'. What is NATO without US Military Backing? NATO Article's #...s are meaningless without the US Military.

Western Europe is on its own. Good luck with Tsar Putin's wish to re-constitute the USSR's borders.

I would go cheer leading for NATO if I belived in ridding this planet from Russia was the answer.
I, on the other hand believe that the russian people have the right to exist as I believe the US people have the same right.
The problem seem to be establishing trust between NATO and Russia.

And still there is this litte thing that Russia doesn't recognize Ukraine rulers at present so Russia made it Russia's right to referendum Crimae to make it part of Russia.

This is a "catch22" situation since it's very likely will lead to greater war when all try to "solve" Crimae situation.