I'm sticking this here as an illustration of what happens when it gets out of control, maybe it aught to be in the science board, but I thought here might be better.

Methane-spewing microbe blamed in Earth's worst mass extinction

Very interesting in a sort of doomed way :) thanks Winterknight!

Have extracted a bit from it:

Methanosarcina is still found today in places like oil wells, trash dumps and the guts of animals like cows...

It suddenly became a major producer of methane through the consumption of accumulated organic carbon in ocean sediments.

The microbe would have been unable to proliferate so wildly without proper mineral nutrients. The researchers found that cataclysmic volcanic eruptions that occurred at that time in Siberia drove up ocean concentrations of nickel, a metallic element that just happens to facilitate this microbe's growth.

Nickel is released into the atmosphere from burning fossil fuels, mining and refining operations and incineration of municipal waste. It is also found in soil treated with sewage sludge. Is that a potential oh-oh for the future? I might go and have a quick coffee now - just in case :)

Methane leaking from coal mines, oil and gas wells, and natural gas storage tanks, pipelines, and processing plants are the source of 25% of the US's total methane emissions.

The focus on cows is probably going to be necessary because even if we stopped mining fossil fuels today, we've opened those pandora's boxes :(

Let's just hope we don't start feeding cows cows, like we did in Britain in the eighties :/

Oh, and it is not just cows and other similar animals that are a problem in methane emission by agriculture. Rice cultivation also produces a significant amount.

Rice is grown for part of its life cycle in a rice paddy... essentially an artificial swamp. Just like in natural swamps (and cow's guts), certain bacteria start consuming organic matter under the water, and methane is produced... It was first called 'swamp gas' instead of 'natural gas'.

And feeding cows cows... urgh... BSE prion. Nasty nasty thing.

Methane leaking from coal mines, oil and gas wells, and natural gas storage tanks, pipelines, and processing plants are the source of 25% of the US's total methane emissions.

The focus on cows is probably going to be necessary because even if we stopped mining fossil fuels today, we've opened those pandora's boxes :(

Let's just hope we don't start feeding cows cows, like we did in Britain in the eighties :/

Oh, and it is not just cows and other similar animals that are a problem in methane emission by agriculture. Rice cultivation also produces a significant amount.

Rice is grown for part of its life cycle in a rice paddy... essentially an artificial swamp. Just like in natural swamps (and cow's guts), certain bacteria start consuming organic matter under the water, and methane is produced... It was first called 'swamp gas' instead of 'natural gas'.

And feeding cows cows... urgh... BSE prion. Nasty nasty thing.

And there you have highlighted a reason why some hydro electric schemes are not green, the water area covers organic matter.

And there you have highlighted a reason why some hydro electric schemes are not green, the water area covers organic matter.

Yep.

Generally speaking large hydroelectric schemes are large producers of methane (as outlined above), but small "flow capture" schemes are clean in that respect. Flow capture schemes are where the head of water is already there, say an existing river weir, and divert a proportion of the water through the generating turbine and release it at the bottom. The footprint is a couple of guides for the water above and below an a small building for the turbine(s) and generator(s), with no change in river flow, weir height etc. The problem is there are few existing weirs that are suitable...

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Wow... we're having to accept a lot in here aren't we... :/ I haven't even started banging on about trees again... which I will be... :) (let me know if that smiley is inappropriate... oh... and this one -> :))

The vast majority of viable hydro sources have already been developed and have been for decades.
That was one of the very first modes of generation.
The first hydro plant, for example, at Niagara Falls (US/Canada) was commissioned in 1882.
There's not a whole lot more to be had there without dams and cutting off water flow to people downstream that depend on the water. (google up the MeKong Delta problems for details)

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If you don't touch it, you can't break it.
;

Wow... we're having to accept a lot in here aren't we... :/ I haven't even started banging on about trees again... which I will be... :) (let me know if that smiley is inappropriate... oh... and this one -> :))

Acceptance is a great part of the role we have to play as 'common' people these days. To pour some water by the wine is a saying we have here. We sure 'have' to:(

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rOZZ
Music
Pictures

In Central Australia there are many termite mounds. These have been estimated to produce as much methane as the entire Northern cattle herd.

Plus no-one actually knows just how much methane a cow actually produces. CSIRO scientists have tried many methods to measure it but all have been inconclusive.

To me, this is just another ludicrous attempt by "certain parties" to convince us "We're All Gunna Die". Once again, because all their predictions so far have not eventuated, they are resorting to more and more outlandish "predictions", scare tactics and obscure inferences.

I'm still waiting for the sea level to rise by a quarter of a metre, let alone the 300M that was predicted some years ago.

T.A.

Generally speaking large hydroelectric schemes are large producers of methane (as outlined above), but small "flow capture" schemes are clean in that respect. Flow capture schemes are where the head of water is already there, say an existing river weir, and divert a proportion of the water through the generating turbine and release it at the bottom. The footprint is a couple of guides for the water above and below an a small building for the turbine(s) and generator(s), with no change in river flow, weir height etc. The problem is there are few existing weirs that are suitable...

That is a intersting point. Why do you need a big damn? Or even a small one. All rivers flow from high to low. So why not take advantage of a natural hieght between the two and put in a water turbine.

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[/quote]

Old James

To get a reasonable efficiency you need a steep gradient rather than the gentle slope of most rivers. A fall of say 10 feet at 75degrees, with a reasonable flow will give quite a good yield with minimum intrusion. but the same fall and flow at a gradient of 15degrees will give you a much lower energy output due to pipe losses, and will be far more intrusive due to the amount of pipes and ducts involved.

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

To me, this is just another ludicrous attempt by "certain parties" to convince us "We're All Gunna Die". Once again, because all their predictions so far have not eventuated, they are resorting to more and more outlandish "predictions", scare tactics and obscure inferences.

I'm still waiting for the sea level to rise by a quarter of a metre, let alone the 300M that was predicted some years ago.

T.A.

Well Terror, we are all going to have to wait a very long time for that 300M to
manifest it's self. You want to see my rose bush?..sprouting buds already!!
Just what was it like during the climate change period that time when the Romans
conquered Britain? Reportedly warmer then than it currently is now, but what ever
happens it wont last for another chilly period will follow. Perhaps the
Malaria fly will come back to Britain again, when it was last here it was quite
prevalent up north. Due to increase in land drainage, plus the effects of the
cooling period that followed the previous warming phase, these flies died off and
they died off long before insecticides were invented.
Watch this space regarding Malaria, this is going to be used as the next scare
tactic.

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The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

Are you saying that Climate Change is normal and cyclical?

Not anymore...

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rOZZ
Music
Pictures

Are you saying that Climate Change is normal and cyclical?

Not anymore...

....no, for it actually is.

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

Are you saying that Climate Change is normal and cyclical?

Not anymore...

....no, for it actually is.

... The fastest, biggest, baddest, fastest spike our planet has ever suffered.


Rapid change that is far too fast for evolution to evolve around...

That ain't "natural"...


All on our only one planet,
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Are you saying that Climate Change is normal and cyclical?

Not anymore...

....no, for it actually is.

... The fastest, biggest, baddest, fastest spike our planet has ever suffered.


Rapid change that is far too fast for evolution to evolve around...

That ain't "natural"...


All on our only one planet,
Martin

That was a big one,

A 110-mile-wide (180-kilometer-wide) crater carved out of Mexico's Yucatán Peninsula, called Chicxulub, has since been found and dated to 65 million years ago. Many scientists believe the fallout from the impact killed the dinosaurs.

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That was a big one, [quote] A 110-mile-wide (180-kilometer-wide) crater carved out of Mexico's Yucatán Peninsula, called Chicxulub, has since been found and dated to 65 million years ago. Many scientists believe the fallout from the impact killed the dinosaurs.

The scary thing is that we are building up to force greater and faster changes than that... (For what was changed for our atmosphere and the subsequent consequences.)

How far in that direction do you want our industry and politics to push us?...

All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Are you saying that Climate Change is normal and cyclical?

Not anymore...

....no, for it actually is.

... The fastest, biggest, baddest, fastest spike our planet has ever suffered.


Rapid change that is far too fast for evolution to evolve around...

That ain't "natural"...


All on our only one planet,
Martin

That was a big one,

A 110-mile-wide (180-kilometer-wide) crater carved out of Mexico's Yucatán Peninsula, called Chicxulub, has since been found and dated to 65 million years ago. Many scientists believe the fallout from the impact killed the dinosaurs.

so few people have a real grasp of natural selection and evolution. the difference between them and the function of each. I see you probably do.
A reading of Stephen Baxters 'Evolution' might give people a sense of... perspective on this. heh

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If you don't touch it, you can't break it.
;

Interesting thread.

The '500 Pound Gorilla In The Room' that NOBODY really wishes to confront:

7 Billion, and rising, Human Beings on this Planet.

What is the solution?

material wealth and comfort tends to restrict family size.
but that ain't gonna happen.

China's experiment pretty much settles the question about forcing people.

Somebody might try a sterilizing bio-virus-retro whatever.. great disaster potential there..

dunno. we're probably screwed.

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If you don't touch it, you can't break it.
;