Face it too that Crimea did what majority of its inhabinants wanted to do, you can call it opportunism or add another negative labels, but fact is the same.

And regarding prices - just LoL, do you mean that IMF will give money just for bright Julya's eyes? Don't make laugh my slippers. But again, the fact remains, discounts were and discounts were quite a long times. And such discounts did good for Ukraine. Yes, Russia did discounts not just for free, but it did them. And it's the fact.

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To protect Crimean Russians against non existing violence?

Non-existent? Well, lets look what will be soon in Harkov, Lugansk and Donetsk. violence already there. Violence was in Kiev from very start (thanks to west diplomates, btw, in big degree), violence, ugly violence, nazi-violence was in Lvov and other west-Ukraine. Did tou miss videos? Why anyone should await that violence come to Crimea? Just to prove that point to such blinds? Sorry, no. Crimea avoided violence, it's good. Pity that other areas did not.

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To protect Crimean Russians against non existing violence?

Non-existent? Well, lets look what will be soon in Harkov, Lugansk and Donetsk. violence already there. Violence was in Kiev from very start (thanks to west diplomates, btw, in big degree). Why anyone should await that violence come to Crimea? Just to prove that point to such blinds? Sorry, no. Crimea avoided violence, it's good. Pity that other areas did not.

It are the Russian minorities in those cities who CAUSE the violence. In Crimea there was nothing happening, so the pretext of protecting citizens was just utter nonsense. There was no indication that Crimean citizens would be the target of any kind of violence. The violence in Kiev was solely between the riot police/army and anti government protesters. Again, Russian citizens were not the targets.

Also, saying that Russia is so great because it bought political influence with cheap gas prices is nonsense. It was a simple trade, Ukraine got cheap gas and in return it would do what the Russians wanted. Sure, Ukraine benefited, as long as they did what they were told by Moscow. The same could be said about the EU. If the Ukrainian government cooperated with the EU, the EU would give them financial and economic aid, which also benefited the Ukrainians.

Face it too that Crimea did what majority of its inhabinants wanted to do, you can call it opportunism or add another negative labels, but fact is the same.

And regarding prices - just LoL, do you mean that IMF will give money just for bright Julya's eyes? Don't make laugh my slippers. But again, the fact remains, discounts were and discounts were quite a long times. And such discounts did good for Ukraine. Yes, Russia did discounts not just for free, but it did them. And it's the fact.

Stop it Raistmer. You're making a fool of yourself by this insane support of the criminal Putin and his equally criminal country.

Nobody in the free world (Russia is not free, it is a dictatorship, and the world knows that the recent so called elections was rigged) believe anything that comes through the Russian propaganda machine, so you might as well stop your actions for the criminal country of Russia now, while you still have some traces of credibility left.

The credibility you once had as a reasonable person is sinking faster than a rock in water now. We in the free world know exactly what Russia is planning.

I don't know who you are, maybe I shuld just ignore such trolls at all. Do you have anything to say on topic or just came here to replicate known cliches? Do you have any knowledge of situation? Did you live in russia or Ukraine to add something valuable to discussion? Do you have any new links worth to look?
Not? Sorry, go further then, perhaps other thread will enjoy of trolling more.

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Again, Russian citizens were not the targets.

Just wrong. Perhaps you just forgot motos that right wing of those protesters have. Perhaps you forgot one of the FIRST new actions of new "government" after overthrough? Russians were the target.
Further, minority you say? Minority voted for Yanukovitch perhaps? Do you know why he had most of his votes on last elections? Because he promised to make Russian as secondary state language. Surely he did not fulfil this (just as many other) his promise, but it shows how "minor" that minority is. Yanokovitch was elected... Though west was mostly for Yulja. Just some perspective.

EDIT: BTW, it's just funny to read that Yanukovitch is pro-Russian president.
That "pro-russian" more than year at least moved country to treaty with EU using all state propaganda to "explain" population why it "will be good" for them. Perhaps that time it was pro-russian too?... Actually he is just "windmill" that look where pay more...

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BTW, Мишель, when you say A worth to say B, right?
If minority do unrest in Donetsk, then what was in Lvov, in Kiev? How many participated in actions in those towns? And how many citizens those towns have? It's always minority who acts actively, most population have other things to to.
Just as whole discussion in this thread comparing with number of posters on SETI boards for example not saying about full number of participants... Yes, it's only minority, here and there. So what?

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Just wrong. Perhaps you just forgot motos that right wing of those protesters have. Perhaps you forgot one of the FIRST new actions of new "government" after overthrough? Russians were the target.
Further, minority you say? Minority voted for Yanukovitch perhaps? Do you know why he had most of his votes on last elections? Because he promised to make Russian as secondary state language. Surely he did not fulfil this (just as many other) his promise, but it shows how "minor" that minority is. Yanokovitch was elected... Though west was mostly for Yulja. Just some perspective.

Actually, I never said minority, don't put words in my mouth. That aside, Russian has been turned into the official regional language and while some tried to repeal that law, the repeal law itself got veto'd by the interim president. So cry me a river about how mistreated the Russians are because they are not.

EDIT: BTW, it's just funny to read that Yanukovitch is pro-Russian president.
That "pro-russian" more than year at least moved country to treaty with EU using all state propaganda to "explain" population why it "will be good" for them. Perhaps that time it was pro-russian too?... Actually he is just "windmill" that look where pay more...

What treaty? He rejected the treaty with the EU, which is what started the protests. Sure, he made some deals with the EU here and there, and why shouldn't he? If they were advantageous to Ukraine why would he reject them? The same goes for him making deals with Russia. In the end though, he was pro Russian because when it mattered he went to Moscow and not Brussels and his supporter base was Russian.

BTW, Мишель, when you say A worth to say B, right?
If minority do unrest in Donetsk, then what was in Lvov, in Kiev? How many participated in actions in those towns? And how many citizens those towns have? It's always minority who acts actively, most population have other things to to.
Just as whole discussion in this thread comparing with number of posters on SETI boards for example not saying about full number of participants... Yes, it's only minority, here and there. So what?

What has this got to do with anything. All I'm saying it are the Russian Ukrainians that are currently causing the violence, not the Ukrainians and as such its nonsense to claim that the Russians require protection from those violent Ukrainians or something.

It are the Russian minorities in those cities who CAUSE the violence.

It's direct citation from your post.

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got veto'd by the interim president. So cry me a river about how mistreated the Russians are because they are not.

Well, that project got fierce response - then and only then it was retracted. So no need to make look if nothing happened. Attempt was done and failed, what it was.

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What treaty? He rejected the treaty with the EU, which is what started the protests. Sure, he made some deals with the EU here and there, and why shouldn't he? If they were advantageous to Ukraine why would he reject them? The same goes for him making deals with Russia. In the end though, he was pro Russian because when it mattered he went to Moscow and not Brussels and his supporter base was Russian.

Not quite. look for his deeds before protests began. And you will see quite a sharp change in course. Russia offered more? His eastern oligarhs who supported him decided that better to be with Russia than with EU? I don't know. But the facts: course was not on Russia, course was changed. "Windmill" just as I said.
Why would he rejected something? I have no illusions that he acted in Ukraine interests. Because he decided what his (or his closest environment) interests are in something else.

All I'm saying it are the Russian Ukrainians that are currently causing the violence, not the Ukrainians and as such its nonsense to claim that the Russians require protection from those violent Ukrainians or something.

Russian Ukranians - what do you mean, they citizens of the same country as others. They have right to feel own country as home not as slaves of "other" Ukranians. In multicultural country interests of others should be accounted too. Strange to explain this to citizen of EU where almost any minority so valued now ;) If they would be happy living in Ukraine why would they do riots at all?

And regarding protection, well, really strange to hear that jews were requiring protection from nazi, not?
There are extremist movements on Ukraine, quite numerous movements, that consider Ukraine as "single nation" state. That claim that all russians should "go home in Moscow"... well, perhaps they see now that ways "to go home" could be little different from those they expected :D If man was born on some land and some say him go away... well, he could go away.. but with land on that he was born...

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WoW, looks like BBC starts to see something too:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26841732

That's minority that did overthrough, that's minority that threaten russian-speakers there. But quite active minority. They used when needed, they killed when not...

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WoW, looks like BBC starts to see something too:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26841732

That's minority that did overthrough, that's minority that threaten russian-speakers there. But quite active minority. They used when needed, they killed when not...

It says the Russians are exaggerating. Yes there are some extreme right wing groups active. No they do not form the government or the majority.

WoW, looks like BBC starts to see something too:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26841732

That's minority that did overthrough, that's minority that threaten russian-speakers there. But quite active minority. They used when needed, they killed when not...

It says the Russians are exaggerating. Yes there are some extreme right wing groups active. No they do not form the government or the majority.

Well, as I said, BBC starts to see :) All those epithets like "annexing", "exaggerating", "opportunism" and so on form some relation to facts, indeed. But if being filtered, the facts are presented and can be analized further. W/o this rhetorical husk.
Regarding "do not form government" - did you read bios of that so-called "interim government" ? Just look for Свобода (Freedom) party members. They quite close to Right Sector in their views, just little less radical. But they compete with them in politic space (hence recent kill of Sashko Belyj/Olexandr Musychko). Next, even look on Yulja's last statements. She started to use nationalistic rhetoric too. That already cause negative reaction of east Ukraine (look some posts back with nice photo of her puppet I posted).
Such experienced politic as she (one can disagree with her goals but the fact of experience should be recognized anyway) will not use such rhetoric if there are too small fraction in electorate who will respond on it. All this shows that this issue not too diminishing and can't be just ignored. and ~17% of citizens - not SO little minority at all...

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Your ex-compatriots over here certainly don't hold your views Raistmer, in fact they have a totally opposite 1.

Your ex-compatriots over here certainly don't hold your views Raistmer, in fact they have a totally opposite 1.

They have right to do that, just as I have the right to disagree. But what this your statement should prove or disprove?

[EDIT: if I say that I have friend who totally disagree with me on this question, and this friend lives just as me in Moscow - what this fact will prove or disprove? Yes, all have own opinions. And we do exchange of our opinions here with some arguments pro and contra. Also some trolls have no agruments and just throw flame in discussion time to time (don't take this notion as personal respond, just stating this fact per se as having place to be). And so what?]

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And more info to think on it:

Look this article:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26829147

Citation:

Moscow has broken with a pattern of behaviour that has characterised diplomacy in Europe since the end of the Cold War and arguably one that has held sway in western Europe since the collapse of Nazi Germany.

The idea that disputes will be settled by diplomacy rather than force; that the currency of power is increasingly economic might rather than military.

And now recall world history of recent few years. And think, did author of this article say truth in this paragraph?

Should I remind big and continued brute force confrontations of last years on the globe? where author saw bolded part of his statement at all?

EDIT and such non-justified statements, repeated again, and again, and again (it's called propaganda) form relation to events. From article author's point of view world lives in peace and only bad Russia breaks this harmony. And negative relations to Russia grows and grows... That's how propaganda works.

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Now why do you keep using the word "troll" or "trolls" for those that don't agree with you if you are not getting personal?

Now why do you keep using the word "troll" or "trolls" for those that don't agree with you if you are not getting personal?

No, I'm using this word in it's defined sense (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) ).
To those who disagree with me I give argumented answer why I think so and ask questions why they think such.

Back to topic?

Add on:

Regardless of the circumstances, controversial posts may attract a particularly strong response from those unfamiliar with the robust dialogue found in some online, rather than physical, communities. Experienced participants in online forums know that the most effective way to discourage a troll is usually to ignore it, because responding tends to encourage trolls to continue disruptive posts

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Verhovnaya Rada of Ukraine. Rule of law and justice in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlKMVFtPsFI

Deputates from "Freedom" did not like what deputat from communists saying. No problems, they just kicked him out of microphone. Quite easy to solve questions under democratic government, not? ;)

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Moscow has broken with a pattern of behaviour that has characterised diplomacy in Europe since the end of the Cold War and arguably one that has held sway in western Europe since the collapse of Nazi Germany.

The idea that disputes will be settled by diplomacy rather than force; that the currency of power is increasingly economic might rather than military.

And now recall world history of recent few years. And think, did author of this article say truth in this paragraph?

Should I remind big and continued brute force confrontations of last years on the globe? where author saw bolded part of his statement at all?

EDIT and such non-justified statements, repeated again, and again, and again (it's called propaganda) form relation to events. From article author's point of view world lives in peace and only bad Russia breaks this harmony. And negative relations to Russia grows and grows... That's how propaganda works.

The author says that brute force conflicts are increasingly less relevant in terms of power, and he is correct, as the amount of brute force conflict has been declining. But that doesn't mean that brute force conflicts no longer exist at all. And nowhere in that citation does the author state that brute force conflicts are now a thing of the past. You are putting words in his mouth.