We are out of the topic of the thread but the questions rised are very important for the development of the project.

Just imagine what could happening if more optimized app will be put to work as stock, then the credit of all AP work will be fall like seti7. This is against any possible logic, better the stock app lower the credit, it´s insane.

On other hand if by doing that the balance will be achieved it´s something to think about.

Creditscrew is playing against the evolution of the project.

So something is clear, creditscrew must be fixed for the good of the project future.

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"creditscrew must be fixed for the good of the project future."

Or what?

"creditscrew must be fixed for the good of the project future."

Or what?

Continuing downward spiral of credit, blockage of optimisation impetus, technological stagnation, loss of users, (even) fewer donations...

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

Sounds terrible if were to really happen.

Jason´s get the spirit, that´s why we all want the fix.

It´s my personal choice, and i´m sure i will be criticized for that, but for what other reason you belive why i don´t have a green star beside my name like the past years?

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Sounds terrible if were to really happen.

It's been happening slowly for years. rough how these things creep up on you.

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

Fair enough, do you think the flow of donations will ever reach a level
low enough to prompt a fix to creditnew?

And yet SAH is still here.

And yet SAH is still here.

An will be here for a long time, we all are following a "dream" and humans loves "good dreams", either with creditscrew we will remain here following that dream.

What we are talking is about development of new optimizations, new technologies, etc. The "evolution" of the project, that´s is what creditscrew is against. Each new optimization (good for the project) is translated on a new fall of the credit (Bad for humans).

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Fair enough, do you think the flow of donations will ever reach a level
low enough to prompt a fix to creditnew?

Would the project be able to afford to dedicate the manpower to make fixes before it runs completely dry ? I'm not sure.

Well that's complex, and there are other issues to address. Fingers crossed some of that can be mitigated before it reaches that point, because this project alone does not have the resources to fix that IMO. It's going to take involvement from other project heads to get things 'right', which we've been working toward (long haul).

The main challenges are barriers to everyone understanding what CreditNew is.
It's not about the credits, but about throughput measure. It's tied into task time estimates, and so a dominant factor in the user experience and new user retention.

In those respects either inflation or deflation devalue the meaning as a throughput measure. Its erratic behaviour and design flaws at present opens the avenues for abuse, as with the curretn thread topic, and with some other more obscure forms of cheating that CreditNew was supposed to restrict.

Those particular flaws haven't come to light yet, but it's inevitable they'll surface, and create just as much or more consternation and debate as the rather esoteric esoteric one of rescheduling does.

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

And yet SAH is still here.

An will be here for a long time, we all are following a "dream" and humans loves "good dreams", either with creditscrew we will remain here following that dream.

What we are talking is about development of new optimizations, new technologies, etc. The "evolution" of the project, that´s is what creditscrew is against. Each new optimization (good for the project) is translated on a new fall of the credit (Bad for humans).

And for some of us, anything less than doing everything we can spare, whether money, time and effort, wouldn't be enough... because simply 'still being here' isn't enough, until every possible improvement and effort has been made.

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

Yes, Juan, and what have you gained by rehashing the same
oatmeal every few weeks for the last 6 months?

I think you guys are going to have to come up with a stronger game plan
if you really want something accomplished.

I don´t want to gain nothing. My thread was to point the rescheduling problem, but with the development of the point we reach one of it´s sources, the creditscrew problem.

What i wish it´s diferent, and clearely exposed in the thread.

OK I need to be honest, i agree i want something, finaly find our little green friend, with or without creditscrew, but that´s is my dream and i belive it´s shared with a lot of others.

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I think you guys are going to have to come up with a stronger game plan
if you really want something accomplished.

Oh you're quite right there. The diplomatic channels have to be explored first, before the avenue of publishing every hole in the mechanism is approached as a last resort.

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

I think you guys are going to have to come up with a stronger game plan
if you really want something accomplished.

Oh you're quite right there. The diplomatic channels have to be explored first, before the avenue of publishing every hole in the mechanism is approached as a last resort.

LOL - Diplomacy before the Nuke´s, that´s a good practice. Now williams could say, stop the war!

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Yes, it is, or I wouldn't be here either.

But the rising cost of electricity, life in general, and the
ongoing recalcitrance shown by A certain project member has
reduced my participation to one machine. Of course, that
machine now does many times the work that my first cruncher did.

I first came to this project out of curiosity.
I always had a fascination for the stars out there.
I had an uncle, a science professor, who actually built an observatory in my grandparent's back yard.
He was noted in past years for his unique setting.

The following is a bit of text from the actual Sky and Telescope boards....Jerome Knuijt is my mother's brother.

A substantial side benefit of my design is the reduction in ground effects on seeing. A fellow astronomer who bought my Questar sent me an article he saved from Sky and Telescope, May 1959 issue, showing a similar elevated observatory (Knuijt Observatory) which was built ONLY to reduce ground air current effects.

His observatory in Appleton, WI was 15 feet off the ground with the dome top at 27 feet. My observatory is 20.5 feet off the ground with the dome at 29 feet - fairly similar, but he happened to have the very 6" Clark which Burnham used to discover hundreds of double stars as well as 5 larger scopes under his massive 19' dome (mine is just 8').

Here's some of what Jerome J. Knuijt said in his S&T article:

"Observatories located close to ground level suffer from heating by conduction and radiation losses that produce air currents which can seriously impair seeing conditions.......
The floor of my observatory is 15' above the ground, with the dome top 27' high. This elevation of the telescopes has greatly improved the quality of the seeing, as tests on difficult double stars have shown."

Another reason to raise things up these days is security. I'll have quite valuable gear up there. Stealing any of it means using the spiral staircase which is a slow go, and when they make it to the top they don't know what other security systems I have waiting for them and then they have to get back down slowly with all those deadly spiders and snakes down their shirts with the alarm blaring, electric shocks at every step making them look like Michael Jackson on a bad day lit up by the psychedelic flashing police lights and wailing sirens as they close in, handcuffs waiting to take the grateful criminals away from here to a nice, safe jail cell.... I feel better with my "stuff" a little out of reach.

There's a feeling of joy and seclusion being up there -- no-one is going to just barge in without asking permission to "come aboard" first. They just don't do it. When someone asks to come up, I can just as easily decide to come down instead. Secluded-ness allows me to decide and allows me to concentrate on what I'm doing rather than thinking I'm going to be interrupted at every moment. I like sharing, but I like my privacy at times, too.

Finally, it's just darn fun to finally own the tree-house I never had as a boy.



I was able to spend some nights with him as a young lad, and he explained to me how his mirrors and lenses worked and let me actually watch for a few hours one night. I was awestruck by what I saw, so when, years later, I found Seti, it was an instant fixation.

Now you know.............'the rest of the story'.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Personally, I think the time for diplomacy is fast
coming to an end. Sometimes you have to hit the mule
between the eyes with a 2x4 to get him to pull the plow.

I don't know if it's a matter of getting the necessary
people out of their comfort zone or changing the parameters
that they are working under, maybe both.

What I think it's going to take is somebody to step up and
say this needs to be accomplished and I will pay what ever
it takes to cover the man hours, programming, and hardware
involved to fix the database problem, so caches can be increased,
and get creditnew to properly work. I would expect that
to be a large chunk of money and if the people posting could do
something like that it would have already been done.

I also think that there is a chance that ruffled feathers could get
the project closed. I would be very sad if that happened, but I
always figured a quick death was better than a slow lingering one.

Personally, I think the time for diplomacy is fast
coming to an end. Sometimes you have to hit the mule
between the eyes with a 2x4 to get him to pull the plow.

I don't know if it's a matter of getting the necessary
people out of their comfort zone or changing the parameters
that they are working under, maybe both.

What I think it's going to take is somebody to step up and
say this needs to be accomplished and I will pay what ever
it takes to cover the man hours, programming, and hardware
involved to fix the database problem, so caches can be increased,
and get creditnew to properly work. I would expect that
to be a large chunk of money and if the people posting could do
something like that it would have already been done.

I also think that there is a chance that ruffled feathers could get
the project closed. I would be very sad if that happened, but I
always figured a quick death was better than a slow lingering one.

Not gonna happen on MY watch, friend.
I'd sell the house and live in my 1990 Olds traveling for kibbles for the kitties if I felt it was necessary to fund the project rather than see it go down.
I do feel that strongly about it. Due to some very fine friends who have contibuted GPUs to me, I can do this.
I spend an estimated 6,000 dollars a year in electricity to contribute to this quest. That may be on the low side. Multiply that by the ten years I have been here. Now, you might just get an inkling of my dedication.

I do sense that some are growing weary here.
Some sense of WTF are we staying here for.

That is to be expected when one does not get instant gratification after years of tracking something you just cannot get your hands on.
Yes, it is very frustrating that we cannot seem to find another WOW signal.

But, I assure you, IT IS THERE. We only have to continue to sort the wheat from the chaff to find it.
LOL, it IS there, dammit.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

We still have time for diplomacy, and few (few yes, but very very good) people are working on that. We all need give them some time and our support.

Anyway i agree with Mark, SETI will survive with or without limit or creditscrew, why? simply because the project and our dreams are a lot greater than all this mess.

Just rise your eyes on a dark night with clear sky and think, we can´t be alone, we just need to find them.

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