Voting for a party is one thing, to have that party select who will be president over such a large commission is undemocratic.

It should be a position that is voted on & not be chosen by a Select few!

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Voting for a party is one thing, to have that party select who will be president over such a large commission is undemocratic.

It should be a position that is voted on & not be chosen by a Select few!

Oh well then I guess the Netherlands is undemocratic as well then. We don't get to vote for who becomes party leader (and defacto candidate for Prime Minster) either. Thats an internal matter for the party. And do people in Britain get to chose who is going to be the leader for Labour or the Tories? If they want, can people in Britain vote for the Labour party but not for the candidate for Prime Minister?

Besides, this is more democratic than the previous procedure, which was basically the member states selecting a guy they like with no democratic elections at all.

You still don't get it. In general elections, at least here anyway, people know who they're voting for & who will become Prime Minster.

For a select few to choose a president over such a large & powerful organisation is undemocratic!

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That is not democratically electing but SELECTING

So what price Democracy?

The Yanks have it right with theirs, elected not selected!

How is that selecting? The EP clearly proposed who of their party would be Commission President if that party won. They even had a bunch of televised debates over it. People, had they paid attention, would have clearly known that if a certain party won, a certain person would become the Commission President. It was Juncker for the Christian Democrats, Guy Verhofstad for the Liberals, Martin Schulz for the Socialsts and Ska Keller for the Greens. Vote for the greens and you vote for Ska Keller, vote for the Christian democrats and you vote for Juncker. How is that not democratically electing someone?

As the UK conservatives are in group you call the Christian Democrats, and they are calling for a re-think, it would be undemocratic to keep going along the old path.

Don't you think more Leaders are re-assessing the candidates, when there was quite a swing away from the traditional parties.

France’s Front National, Britain’s Ukip, the Danish People’s party and Syriza in Greece all topped their country’s EU parliamentary elections.

Interesting article in Der Spiegel, The Democratic Deficit: Europeans Vote, Merkel Decides

Which ever way this goes, it is going to cause problems, unless Jean-Claude Juncker withdraws and a new candidate is chosen.

Wow, thanks WK. Been a bit behind recently. That is some report.

Highly interesting but also damning. Throughout these series of threads, I've stated that Merkel has her own agenda.

Unfortunately, whichever way the results of this come out, it is her downfall & looking back for her autobiography, she will know that herself.

What makes it worse is that she called Cameron "“It cannot be that an anti-European like Cameron can dictate to Europeans what should be done.", for a leader she has some funny thoughts inside that head of hers. Cameron an anti-European?

Is she from Ork by any chance?

"In a silent putsch against the electorate, Angela Merkel is now impeding the process. She fears a loss of power and Britain's EU exit.

Immediately after the polling stations closed, the chancellor telephoned with SPD boss Sigmar Gabriel and ensured him that she wanted to continue with the grand coalition government and that a common solution could also be found in Brussels. Nevertheless, the first cracks are already showing."

And those cracks are only going to get wider!

Edit:

After reading I clicked on the various links which were interesting, however, this one should be read after reading WK's link...

We ought to be EU skeptic

I enjoyed reading this bit: -

"Size can equally make it become rigid and inflexible, because of excessively fast growth and even more so because of the challenges of internal uniformity. This is particularly risky at a time such as ours, when every day brings new risks and problems -- but also new opportunities. In such situations, size can be an advantage. But it can only be agile and quick to respond if it limits itself to the most essentially shared issues, and doesn't try to play the all-encompassing superstate."

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You still don't get it. In general elections, at least here anyway, people know who they're voting for & who will become Prime Minster.

For a select few to choose a president over such a large & powerful organisation is undemocratic!

No, you don't get it. Because that is exactly how these elections went as well. You vote for a party, that party is part of a faction in the EP, and whatever faction in the EP got the biggest got to send their candidate, who they clearly announced as their candidate, to Commission as the new Commission President. There was no select few people in picking who was going to be the next Commission President, it was you the voter who picked him.

And Merkel decides? Merkel places herself squarly behind the guy who won the elections! Sure, she and everyone else should have done that right after the results had come in. But at least she is now honoring the democratic process.

And Merkel decides? Merkel places herself squarly behind the guy who won the elections! Sure, she and everyone else should have done that right after the results had come in. But at least she is now honoring the democratic process.

Ah Yes, Ms Merkel...

"Thus far, her actions have spoken a different language. It is the language of one for whom the voters are secondary."

"Or whether she is seeking to prevent Juncker from becoming president -- while hiding in the British shadow -- because she doesn't want to see a man appointed president of the European Commission who has the backing of the entire European Parliament and a majority of all European voters."

"With Juncker at its helm, the EU Commission would certainly have stronger political leadership. Precisely because they have a mandate from parliament and voters, he and his commissioners would be in a much stronger position vis-a-vis Brussels' highly self-confident civil service elite."

"On his way back to his home in Würselen, Germany, last Tuesday, he learned that Merkel and Cameron had refused for the time being to give their support to Juncker, his new ally."

You castigated Cameron for his views on this, so how about the same diatribe for Merkel?

It seems that you don't read the links people provide. WK's link & the following link provided by myself shows quite clearly all that is wrong with the EU.

Where the EU is concerned all I see is the same attitude as discussed worldwide over Global Warming/Climate Change...

...too much dogma from both sides with nothing getting achieved!

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There is an editorial in Der Spiegel today, Decision Time: Britain Must Choose Now If It Will Stay in Europe

He doesn't seem to like the UK position, although acknowledges the fact that we joined a free-trade zone not a political union. And that we want to keep our links with the US.

But one thing he doesn't mention, and very few people do, is that we made to give up a lot of our trade links with our relatives in the British Commonwealth.

One paragraph in that editorial says it all really about Europe...

"To be sure, it would be a tragedy if Britain were to leave the European Union -- a political, economic and cultural loss. Indeed, the British are to be credited with much of that which makes the Continent so special today and of which people are so proud. They introduced democracy at a time when absolutism prevailed in Europe. They showed us the advantages of an economic liberalism that, despite all its weaknesses, ultimately transformed Europe into a prosperous Continent. At all times, the British have provided us with cultural enrichment."

...The Europe of today is just as bad as pre-1914 era...

...massive delusions of grandeur!

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Today's Der Spiegel piece, is almost opposite to yesterdays. Opinion: Europe's Juncker Bond

Those still capable of distinguishing between Italian and German interests can only hope that the German chancellor will for once listen to the British and send Juncker packing with a resounding "nein". Even if the rest of the world is pointing fingers at David Cameron right now, that doesn't mean the English prime minister is wrong. On the contrary: In the case of the European Commission, we would be well advised to close ranks with London rather than with Rome and Luxembourg.

And even better is this: -

POTUS backs a strong & united UK

& that is a STRONG UK outside of the EU!

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And to confirm the above: -

Sweden & Denmark showed that it did not work so why is the ECB doing it?

ECB introduces negative interest rates

""Now we are in a completely different world," he said."

We know that, so how about telling us something we do not know!

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And even better is this: -

POTUS backs a strong & united UK

& that is a STRONG UK outside of the EU!

You should really read your own links first.

"But the US president told reporters in Brussels the decision was "up to the people of Scotland"."

"Mr Obama also expressed his disquiet at the prospect of the UK leaving the EU."

For those who can't read political speech, Obama is basically saying 'I dont give a damn if Scotland secedes and I certainly do not want the UK to leave the EU because that would seriously damage our relations and influence in Europe'.

As for whether you want Mr. Juncker or not, he gets to be Commission President because he won the elections. You yourself where complaining about how the Commission president was 'selected' well, if Cameron gets his way, then yes, you get a Commission President that is selected.

You should learn to understand not only what you read but what is actually stated...

& that is a STRONG UK outside of the EU!

Until Scotland gets its referendum & IF they leave, you would be correct

BUT for now, Scotland is part of the UK

...or did that slip your mind?

Obama also stated Strong & United

Did that also slip your mind?

As for myself, a number of MP's stated exactly what I've been saying on Question Time last night...

"We have local government, the Welsh Assembly, Westminster & the EU. Why do we need 4 levels of government?

Care to answer that?

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Obama also stated Strong & United

Did that also slip your mind?

Political catchphrases that mean nothing. He couldn't exactly have said 'weak and divided' or not mention it all.

And sure, no doubt the US rather sees that Scotland remains with the UK, but overall its not something they care to much about.

As for myself, a number of MP's stated exactly what I've been saying on Question Time last night...

"We have local government, the Welsh Assembly, Westminster & the EU. Why do we need 4 levels of government?

Care to answer that?

Isn't the answer obvious? Much like you have a local government to deal with local issues, a Welsh assembly to deal with issues regarding Wales in particular and Westminster to deal with issues that regard the UK as a whole, you have an EU to deal with issues that are best dealt with on an European level. For example, the level of safety of cars. What would happen if every country had their own level of safety? Well, if the UK wants to sell cars to Europe, they would have to make sure their cars meet the safety requirements of every individual country, thus driving up costs. With the EU, that safety level is standardized, meaning a car manufacturer in the UK only has to meet to one level of safety in order to sell his car in every country in Europe. Could such a thing be done through Westminster, the Welsh assembly or the local government? I don't think so.

Could such a thing be done through Westminster, the Welsh assembly or the local government? I don't think so.

We did quite well before the EU H&S Nazi's stepped into the picture with their inane rules & regulations to justify their positions & salaries.

All we have seen for the past year is squabbling amongst themselves as to who gets the bigger sup from the trough rather than do what they were supposed to do.

The more that continues, the more the citizens of Europe get disillusioned and then bye-bye EU.

Four nations have already started by giving a wake up call. If it goes unheeded, it won't be long before many others say "enough is enough" & no matter how many Europhiles bleat, the EU will die a quick death.

An MP stated last night "I'll be damned if I want an unelected bureaucrat tell me that the shape or colour of a banana must conform to his/her ideals"

I couldn't stop laughing as that says it all about the EU itself!

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Standardisation throughout Europe is a lovely ideal...

...however, I wouldn't want to be the one telling that to these people...

Going on holiday? Then send your luggage via FedEx, guaranteed to arrive before you do

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The double standards of European leaders...

D-Day: Hollande's pleas to fight threats to peace

Excerpt of the speech by HM Queen Elizabeth II

"But they also felt "pride at the sheer courage of the men who stormed those beaches, embodied in the veterans amongst us," she added.

"And... thankfulness, knowing that today, our nations are free and sovereign, because allied forces liberated this continent from occupation and tyranny.""

If the EU get its way, that freedom & sovereignty will soon disappear!

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An MP stated last night "I'll be damned if I want an unelected bureaucrat tell me that the shape or colour of a banana must conform to his/her ideals"

I couldn't stop laughing as that says it all about the EU itself!

Yes, well if its not an unelected EU bureaucrat, its going to be an unelected British bureaucrat. Except if its a British bureaucrat, it would seriously piss off a number of a banana companies and they might drive up prices because of it.

Besides, that banana story is a perfect example of the publics ignorance of the EU. They always use it as an example of inane rules set by Brussels. What they do not realize is that this bit of regulation was actually pushed by a number of major Banana companies. So while ignorant MP's are bleating about how those rules are supposedly a burden to everyone, businesses love it.