Until computer geeks regardless of their fanboy status wake up and realise that where computing is concerned, there are various systems available for both individuals and companies to use, there will be O/S wars.

The day that all concerned become truly professional in their outlook and hanker down to make their O/S the best available will be one to look forward to.

Unfortunately, that day will never come as both the Windows and Linux threads on these boards show as well as elsewhere on the Internet.

So the answer is simple. Use what one is comfortable with and just get on with it!

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+1.
It also has to be remembered that sometimes you don't have a choice. There are times the s/ware one has, or wants to use is only available on one OS. And when it is available on a second OS it is either poorly ported and buggy or limited.

+1.
It also has to be remembered that sometimes you don't have a choice. There are times the s/ware one has, or wants to use is only available on one OS. And when it is available on a second OS it is either poorly ported and buggy or limited.

Yes there is that of course. I've even experienced it and not necessarily a ported version. A newer version of the O/S was the culprit. Again though, that's where the professionalism of the software developers should enter the equation instead of popping onto the Internet to run down the opposition.

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So which do you prefer?

Harsh words and the overall full system working well and sweet and smooth.

Or someone who is "PC" and all for the trashy unreliability greater expense for all?

How about settling in the middle? No one is asking him to be PC, the problem is with the overly done foul-mouthed attitude toward fellow developers. You don't have to be PC to simply show respect to other people.

In any case, an inventively contrived insult is good fun and notable in the black-and-white world of computer binaries. It also shows you've been noticed and should be taken as a bit of a compliment!

Ummmm... no. Maybe there was a time and place...

I'm very sure that Linus has the greatest of respect for fellow developers. After all, Linux could never be so world-wide successful if not so.

However, there is still a sort of "usenet" culture of flamboyant geekie jest and inventive hyperbole that breaks the boredom and also carries emotive innuendo and passion that is completely lost in the dreary "PC"-style responses. I very strongly feel that advertising positive passion is a Very Good Thing.

Also note that in the IT world there is a commercial desperation to dump interfacing and debug costs onto anyone else and especially not yourself. Ms Sharpe tried such a scurrilous selfish dump and was suitably rebuked.


Without the non-PC rhetoric, I very much expect that Linux would be very unwholsomely like the proprietary mess and expense and silliness suffered elsewhere. Judiciously placed colourful invective to enforce peer pressure good practice appears to work very well. It also gains some fun and useful publicity!

I hope Ms Sharpe doesn't spoil that for the worst. Especially not so for having been "caught out" for the sake of too-selfish code dumping.


All for profit? Or for the users? Or for both?

Strangely, having the focus on freedom for all users looks to gain huge profit for EVERYONE, business and users alike.


Indeed, IT is what we make it but also what we allow it to be...
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

And as a Linux "professional" your reply to messages.....

1417591
1417603
1417605

...is?

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+1.
It also has to be remembered that sometimes you don't have a choice. There are times the s/ware one has, or wants to use is only available on one OS. And when it is available on a second OS it is either poorly ported and buggy or limited.

Yes there is that of course. I've even experienced it and not necessarily a ported version. A newer version of the O/S was the culprit. Again though, that's where the professionalism of the software developers should enter the equation instead of popping onto the Internet to run down the opposition.

Unfortunately, business reality is not so sensible or simple for the users... There's a too often used business trick of sneakily introducing lock-in to gouge extra profit until some other alternative can overcome the artificial obstacles to 'miraculously' promote some 'improvement'...

I have a particularly expensive and stupid example to work through at the moment where for no good IT reason, there are no world standard interfaces offered for an IT connection... Short term we must go to extra internal expense to 'play along' while we are s****ed...

However, no doubt we'll be moving on and away as soon as practical to never touch that again... All a very jaundiced game. Non-cooperation is very expensive for everyone concerned. Stupidly, the vendors seem not to realize they have blown themselves into oblivion.


And then there is the example of the IT system for the NHS here in the UK...

IT is what we allow it to be...
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Stupid question:

Given that there will always be bugs in code ...

Which is better:

1) An O/S that has no method of notifying you that there is a bug fix available

2) An O/S that has a nag offering to install the bug fix

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Ms Sharpe tried such a scurrilous selfish dump and was suitably rebuked.

I hope Ms Sharpe doesn't spoil that for the worst. Especially not so for having been "caught out" for the sake of too-selfish code dumping.

But it seems that Sharp is not the only one who feels this way. It was reported in that article that when she made the public call for reeling in the insults, the entire attending audience responded in applause.

What she has done is sparked a discussion that was much needed. I do not believe for one second that Linux's success is directly attributed to being foul and disrespectful. Linux is successful because it has scaled well on niche mobile products that have a future in the world of IT, as well as being a very solid, hardened server OS. It would still achieve these things without the attitude and rudeness.

Note that nowhere has anyone suggested being Politically Correct. Only Linus and his supporters seem to be responding to this call for professionalism as a request to be Politically Correct.

Until computer geeks regardless of their fanboy status wake up and realise that where computing is concerned, there are various systems available for both individuals and companies to use, there will be O/S wars.

The day that all concerned become truly professional in their outlook and hanker down to make their O/S the best available will be one to look forward to...

Unfortunately, there is far too much ignorance, and IT is too much "black magic and voodoo" for most people, and the Marketing tricks far too 'tricky', for most people not to become victims...

So to be truly "professional", you need to first clean up the worst culprits behind why IT is such an unholy mess today, and for why people have such a horribly low opinion of IT...


World standards and cooperation? Or games of extortion?

In that game, I think you will find the FLOSS world is vastly more "professional" than anything tainted by proprietary secrecy...

IT is very much what we allow it to be...
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Thanks for replying. However, it still comes down to professionalism. If the software writers do their coding good enough, those vendors won't be able to make changes. They'll just have to bump up their sales pitch better than the opposition.

That'll leave the end users with what they want.

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3) An O/S that is not released until the engineers and developers say it is ready, and tell the Marketing Dept to piss off!

Speaking as an engineer (though not a software engineer), I would say such an OS would never be released with as much as engineers like tweaking.

And as a Linux "professional" your reply to messages.....

1417591
1417603
1417605

...is?

Keep with the flow!

:-p

IT is what we make it...
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

And when valid points are raised but obscured by the continuing O/S FUD?

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3) An O/S that is not released until the engineers and developers say it is ready, and tell the Marketing Dept to piss off!

Speaking as an engineer (though not a software engineer), I would say such an OS would never be released with as much as engineers like tweaking.

Every day the marketing department will change the standard the O/S is supposed to meet.

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So to be truly "professional", you need to first clean up the worst culprits behind why IT is such an unholy mess today, and for why people have such a horribly low opinion of IT...

...and of course you imply that Microsoft is leading the pack on "the worst culprits", correct?

World standards and cooperation? Or games of extortion?

Do you take the same view on any world standards Linux follows as set by the various standards organizations?

In that game, I think you will find the FLOSS world is vastly more "professional" than anything tainted by proprietary secrecy...

So if a private company that has to answer to shareholders makes a standard, it is games of extortion. But if it is FLOSS, it is professional and accepted that being rude is what makes it great.

Sometimes you make good sense, and then you go off and show that you're living in your own little world

:-p

A true professionals answer ...

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Thanks for replying. However, it still comes down to professionalism. If the software writers do their coding good enough, those vendors won't be able to make changes. They'll just have to bump up their sales pitch better than the opposition.

That'll leave the end users with what they want.

Unfortunately, no accountants-auditors-run business every allows enough time for coders to be as 'professional' as they should be.

Indeed, by the power of the internet, standard business practice is to now ship products before the development teams have a hope in hell of getting the software or firmware to work and to gamble that in-the-field updates can be made to fix things after the product has been sold. It's then a fraught game of by how much you "inconvenience" your customers...

FLOSS has fantastic power in offering the chance to be only released when actually ready...


IT is what we make it...
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

So to be truly "professional", you need to first clean up the worst culprits behind why IT is such an unholy mess today, and for why people have such a horribly low opinion of IT...

...and of course you imply that Microsoft is leading the pack on "the worst culprits", correct?

Actually, there are at least four other big names in the IT world that I consider have proved themselves to be far more profitably adept at such nasty silliness. In my personal opinion, Microsoft has been a very clumsy copy-cat that everyone else is very happy to allow to take all the negative press...

World standards and cooperation? Or games of extortion?

Do you take the same view on any world standards...

The real question is that of whether easy and free and with freedom for inter-operation... Are your freedoms enhanced or restricted?

There is the very famous "Three E's" expounded by Microsoft as a negative example for example...


IT is what we allow it to become...
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

standard business practice is to now ship products before the development teams have a hope in hell of getting the software or firmware to work and to gamble that in-the-field updates can be made to fix things after the product has been sold. It's then a fraught game of by how much you "inconvenience" your customers...

Yup, it's called SP1

No it is called Wall Street.

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Now this is also a better forum for this subject.

UNIX/Linux is great for those involved with servers and other mission critical hardware applications.

But to the "average user", they'd rather use something that's much more "user friendly" and until Linux groups get together and make this OS easier to use and understand for the "average user" of desktop and laptop computers then it'll just stay as an "elite user" product.

If Linux was so "good" for the "average user" then this current table would be very much different, http://netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0&qpct=6.

Cheers.