I suggest what I call the Canadian solution:
If one does not like something harmless,
one looks harmlessly the other way.
With all care, and in the best of kindness
I say:
“I have some small experience with people
in Mark’s sad condition, and in this case
I think it would be safe to just look the other
way as he is dealing with his pain.”

If someone says or does something you dislike, it isn't "harmless". But ony you can decide if it's worth confronting the person or letting it go. And whether by confronting the person you are dealing with the issue, or just making it worse.

I've found it's usually very easy to tell when Mark is posting under the influence. He tries to post mostly in his own threads, and often the thread title gives a clue to its nature (like this one). There IS method to his madness. In other threads, you can usually see the tone of his posts change. I just take those posts with a large pinch of salt (more than just a grain or two...)

When there are new posts in Mark's threads, I read them, because there could be something interesting there, like a music video or movie clip I might enjoy. Even when he's drinking, Mark can add value to these Forums. I don't usually respond, but he can see from the "views" counter on the index page that people are reading his posts. And when the posts seem unusually dark or angry, I may send him a PM expressing my concern. But not in an angry or confronting tone, as that will usually make the situation worse.

---

Donald
Infernal Optimist / Submariner, retired

Alas, mods don't have a 48h timeout button.
There is an initial 6 hour 'timeout' to give moderators time to vote on the ban. If the vote fails, back to posting after 6h. Else two weeks of banishment.

Anything else would require extra code or extra priviledges to somebody. I don't see that happening for the sake of a single person.

Okay, well I think the 6 hour would probably work for my suggestion. Kick in the 6 hours and hope he goes to sleep.

I also ask everyone, including the mods, not to respond to him in that condition. Not in the forum, not by PM. The responses just egg him on. When he's sober, fine.

---

David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

Anything else would require extra code or extra priviledges to somebody. I don't see that happening for the sake of a single person.

And therein is the problem. The powers that be are unwilling to create such a function, and they shouldn't have to, but they are also unwilling or unable to take the action needed to prevent it being needed.

Unfortunately in some other forums I have seen people post that they are going to quit the project because of Mark's ramblings and the managements inability to control it, or not even attempting to control it.

There are far too many wasting far too much time over one person's disease. It is time for an answer.

---

For all of it I am still on Mark's
side, and if I could help him I would.

May I humbly request that we stop talking about a man who can't speak for himself?

I simply hope he decides to give up the bravado and get the professional help he needs.

Done, Sten-Arme

---

I just cannot bring myself to walk on eggs with him any longer.
He's posted far too many hurtful and racist comments to simply let it go.

If no one calls him on his positions, he will continue to think he must be correct in his thinking and that will only lead deeper into the cesspool.

---

I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.

I just cannot bring myself to walk on eggs with him any longer.
He's posted far too many hurtful and racist comments to simply let it go.

If no one calls him on his positions, he will continue to think he must be correct in his thinking and that will only lead deeper into the cesspool.

I'm with you Robert. The totality of his postings must be looked at, not just an individual post here or there that crosses the line. All the times and how far and the fact that it happens on schedule. But that is discussing moderation and I know we aren't supposed to do that.

When he is sober, he is an okay guy. But his choice - and that is what it is, his choice - to be sodden makes him ...

The only other thing I can see to help convince him to do what is best for him is to change the way banishment works. When banished your crunchers can't get or report work. Perhaps that would be enough motivation for him to make the right choice.

I do know from helping a couple of people, the only way a drunk decides to change is to hit bottom. Hard enough to bounce. Then they can make the choice to get and stay sober.

I hope his company medical offers substance abuse consoling and he takes them up on that. I hope he makes Bill W. his best friend in the whole world. It is his choice.

---

I hope his company medical offers substance abuse consoling and he takes them up on that.

If his company became aware of his activity here over most weekends, they would be hardly likely to be letting him build emergency vehicles on a Monday morning, whether counseling was available or not. Apart from risking a Permaban from Seti, he is also risking losing his job.

I'm just wondering how he's even able to maintain a job in this situation...

---

rOZZ
Music
Pictures

I hope his company medical offers substance abuse consoling and he takes them up on that.

If his company became aware of his activity here over most weekends, they would be hardly likely to be letting him build emergency vehicles on a Monday morning, whether counseling was available or not. Apart from risking a Permaban from Seti, he is also risking losing his job.

I'm just wondering how he's even able to maintain a job in this situation...

Because, as far as I know, he has not yet fully lost control.
He will not go on a binge when he has to work the next day.

@Gary Over my dead body. Apart from setting a dangerous precedent if a forum ban makes you unable to crunch - you know what rats do when pressed into a corner? I see where you are coming from, but you don't go and destabilise an already precarious situation. When things go bang there is always collateral.
It might have the desired effect. It might push him fully over the edge.
Sorry, but I do care.

So, as several people have already pointed out, Mark can and will read here.
They have also pointed out that it is very impolite to have such a discussion in the presence of a person who cannot speak up.

Were you ever the outsider when a group of kids started talking about you, making (hurtful) comments? Remember how you felt? Same here.

I'll ask for this thread to be locked till Mark is back.

---

A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read. (Mark Twain)

OK....
LOL.
Another kittyman moment.
The kind most of you enjoy.

I have not run across this bit for years.
Sure to bring a smile to your face.
Most of you remember what a typewriter was, and may have used one years ago.

Delightful.

The Typewriter.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

OK....
LOL.
Another kittyman moment.
The kind most of you enjoy.

I have not run across this bit for years.
Sure to bring a smile to your face.
Most of you remember what a typewriter was, and may have used one years ago.

Delightful.

The Typewriter.

If he actually typed something coherent, I'd really be impressed.

I used a typewriter about 10 minutes ago.

---

David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

Another kittyman moment.....

I suspect that many here have now dismissed and filtered me, as I seem to have little response to some of my posts.
So be it.

I suspect that if what God knows about me were made public, there might be even fewer that would respond.

I have tried, throughout more than a few years, to give you folks some clues as to who I really am, what I have been through, and how it may have altered the course of my life. Some of you care, some could give a rat's arse, and just write me off as a nut case. I assure you, I am not.

As they say, 'Alcohol was a factor'. From the first taste to the last breath, it shall be so. Unalterably. Beyond my control or fate, whether you believe that or not, it was my uncontrollable destiny from the get go. And I have long ago come to accept that. Your conception that I could possibly change things and take another course is simply wrong. I cannot.

I also in the real world suffer from some manic depressive brain chemical problems that are fine one day and crippling the next. That is the worst problem, and why alcohol seems to sooth at times.

My course was written by my god long before I had any say in it, and I just have to ride it out until he takes me back home and explains everything to me.

Until then, I am just, not unlike you, a seat on the ride of life. And I am strapped in until the day my god takes me to be by his side.

When I get maudlin on ya', it's just me kinda wishing he would make his choice to take me sooner than later. But, that's not my real choice.


I love this life. I know I'll only have one...
And to share it with you, here, has been a joy most of the time.
The rest of the time has been my fault.

I love most of all those of you who have managed through all the years to laugh when I laugh, smile when my heart is able to, and shrug off those times when I get buried deep in thoughts I should not entertain.

I have tried for a long time, to let you into my life.
I share things perhaps some find uncomfortable.
I find them uncomfortable at times too.

Just please, continue to smile with me when I can do so.\
It means so very much to me.

I love you all so very much. Especially those of you who have stood by me when I go dark. Somewhere over the R
ainbow.
And some of you wonder why this is my favorite song.

If I could possibly try to explain to any of you who I am, what I am, or why I am. PM me, and I'll do my best to give you my explanations of how I came here.


Mark. aka the kittyman.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Something has been lost here, I think.

The pure and innocent happiness of the kittyman.

What was once so highly revered and relished by most Setizens has been somewhat tarnished by my behavior. As the old blues song goes, Yes, it hurts me too.

I am still the kid of younger years....
I look in the mirror and I still see a 16yo kid.
And, in some ways, I still am.

I took up this project a lot younger in life than I am now. I hope to be participating in it when I am a lot older than I am now.

I started talkin' 'bout cats long before there were cats in sigs and all.
I had one startling pic that I took so many years ago with my kitties looking out my front door at a bunny, made it my sig, and things just kinda took off from there.

Innocence lost.

I wish I were the man I was back then.....but I am not any longer.
The kitty innocence I have lost has been replaced with true reality.
And frankly, sometimes reality sucks. And makes me cry.

My friends have stuck by me. Many have chosen to distance themselves.
You are all entitled, by these forums, to voice your own opinions about me.
I have abused these forums very much, and cannot say I cannot go down that road again. I just cannot promise that.

The day I leave, and it won't be any time soon I hope, I pray that most of you shall remember me where I started out, and not where I finished up.

I still think I have a fine legacy here on the project.

Kitty kisses and best wishes to all.

Meow.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Mark:

I, for one, appreciate knowing some of your "back-story" - it does help understand what you go through, and make allowances for when your posts turn dark. And I appreciate that when your mood turns dark, you seem to set aside particular threads to post in, so that those who don't want to read those posts can avoid them.

I at least skim through them, just to see what you have to say. Sometimes there are some real gems there, like a music video that adds a new artist to my library, or a film clip I haven't seen in 100 years. But more often, it seems, the best response is to NOT respond, especially if your posts seem angry or agressive - don't want to unintentionally start a fight or set you off on a rant that might get you banished. Sometimes, when your posts are really, really dark and worrisome, I've sent you a PM, or even responded in public, but I've learned it's usually better to let things run their course. And sometimes, since you and I are not often on the boards at the same time, by the time I see some of your posts, it's too late to do or say anything about them.

So while we may seldom respond to your more maudlin ramblings, some of us ARE paying attention, and we DO care. And we DO recognize the good things you have done over the years, and we won't forget.

---

Donald
Infernal Optimist / Submariner, retired

Gems of friends that I have kept and cherished, Donald.

Like I said, laugh with me on a good day, understand me when I weep.

I have a lotta bad times. And I vent too often, I think.
But, other than doing a total Las Vegas...... You cannot ever, ever ask me to stop drinking.......

Which is not ever gonna happen, kids. I shall not ever go there, for reasons I have previously stated. There are dark doors that I have not even opened to you here. Places I just cannot go, even for you.
You shall have just to accept those things as fact in the background.

I gotta refind the old kittyman.
I think I have the files stored here somewhere...........................

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

A binge alcoholic with manic tendencies. Image that. LOL!!

The brain chemical problems are of your own doing.

I will not enable you. When you get tired of being sick you will seek help. Till then I will leave you to yourself induced miseries and your enablers.

---

...

A binge alcoholic with manic tendencies. Image that. LOL!!

The brain chemical problems are of your own doing.

I will not enable you. When you get tired of being sick you will seek help. Till then I will leave you to yourself induced miseries and your enablers.

EXCUSE me for having some issues.
The brain chemical problems are not of my own doing.
They exist within and without my drinking. I have had them since I was a teenager/.
You have seen me post inside the week, when I work, and do not drink.

They are a separate issue, which I try to cover up with whiskey on the weekends when I let it snap.
It works at times, and at others, it is a total fail.

I do not need YOU to enable me, thank you very much.

You only have to have read my history to realize that most of my sorrows were borne of alcohol, and it's addiction. I grant you that.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Mark and everyone else.

The Kittyman had a 2 x 2 week back to back ban recently. If this thread degenerates further either by people provoking him, and him responding or otherwise, it could occur yet again. I should like to appeal to all of you, Mark included, to just calm down and not let that happen. Personally I would lock this thread until Monday morning but it isn't down to me. Watching slow train wrecks isn't particularly entertaining.

Chris, you are one of my greatest protectors.

But a ban right now is just not in the picture.

I am restraining myself, although I have posted a few very collections of rather frank thoughts.

And even refrained from my usual bout of foul language.

George Carlin would not approve of my casual way of addressing my doubters in this case.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

I am not unlike Henry Bevis......
Gone too far, deprived of my roots.
Starved.......as it were.

I would have throttled Henrietta long ago.

And now that I am older, I have all to do I can do to see my work and at times converse with you via my 32 inch monitor here.

Total cataract implants and subsequent lasik procedures have allowed me my sight, for which I am totally grateful to god.

If you don't recall, I was legally blind in my right eye for two years. Just a blurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. So I lived in a rather closed ........'get back to your cage'..
That is a quote from the clip.

So, I have a special indeed attachment to this certain episode of.........
The Twilight Zone........
I wonder if I might see some of you in my office? All PMs are welcome.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Just a little bit........
And ignore this if it turns out to be nothing.

I have had a knot in my neck for the last few weeks.
It came about when I was running under a fire truck, twisted my neck, and all hell broke loose. Pierce has a very good off work therapy program, but it has not helped for a month.


The company therapist has written this off as a simple tied up muscle.

I am starting to think it is something more than that, and if it is, you and I shall not be speaking soon.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster