Try something very simple. Screw the DL's and all the other expensive and hard to get ID's. If the ID isn't free it is a poll tax anyway!

Just have them show the mailing label from the sample ballot.

That's about all the ID card at the private club is anyway. :)

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Then, when you get to the DMV and show them that your only source of income is from government handouts, they say, no problem, just show us a primary identity document or two secondary identity documents or one secondary identity document along with two supporting identity documents and we'll provide you with an id card *at no cost*.

ID cards are not free of cost in my state; they are $20. For the uber-poor, this $20 is un-affordable, and most people in this class happen to be minorities, which is why you get the accusations of racism.

Big hoop. BIG HOOP. SEVERAL BIG HOOPS.

Yep, and I'm so glad Texas will let anyone register. All they have to do is show up at the DMV with a birth certificate and claim to be the name on the paper. And I'm glad there is no fee or poll tax to issue that document. Take their new spanking card over to the clerks office and register to vote. No proof of identity required.

Some states made it a little bit harder. So if you just show up with a birth certificate, they say, prove you are the name on the certificate. A Passport, and long list of government photo identification documents will be accepted. Funny thing, to get a US Passport you have to submit a drivers license! In some places they made a catch 22! Well, almost. You have to get that first passport before you turn 16 as they don't make you show ID at that age. Oh, and passports aren't free, you have to pay the poll tax to get it.

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Guy, the following 2 posts totally rebut your BS argument, accept the fact this is about manipulating the electorate.

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have you ever registered to vote? You have to prove you are a citizen to get a voters registration card. A card which happens to be free and is provided, in the state of Texas, by the county in which you reside.
You do understand that registering to vote takes time and effort and proof of residency. So, your argument about fraud is a tough pill to swallow. What you are really saying is that even though someone can prove they are a resident and present their voters card on election day, that person has to prove once again they reside where they say they do.

Kinda sounds like someone is making it more difficult to vote and mostly for poor or poorly educated people or people that don't speak English very well.

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

So why are the fascist reactionaries allowed to get away with preventing some minorities from joining some gyms in New York?

What has membership of a privately run gym in New York to do with voting laws?

Are you going to answer this, Guy?

I thought my answer was pretty obvious. Let me spell it out.

It's ok to make someone show an id card before they're allowed membership in a privately owned club, right?

But it's *not* ok to make someone show an id card before they're allowed to vote?

In what universe does that make sense?

The one where a citizen has a Constitutional right to vote though no such right to join a privately run gym. Pretty sure I know which universe I'm in, which one do you inhabit?

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

(that's their poll tax problem, not Texas's problem), you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Hum as someone explained it to me Guy, you may fit into a payment exception bin in Texas. The fee for most is $16.

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I'll assert again, if you can't prove you're eligible to vote, and if you can't pay $20 for an id card in other states (that's their poll tax problem, not Texas's problem), you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

We're about to lose this country as founded. And this is one of the many reasons why. You want real solutions? This is one of them.

So you'd rather prevent legitimate voters from voting if they're unable to afford ID cards because you perceive illegal voters to be that large of a problem? Seems like spending an inordinate amount of resources to solve what seems from the onset to be a non-issue (is the GOP really that pissed about losing the minority voters in the last election that they wish to exclude as many as they can?).

I can think of much larger problems that need solving than illegal voters. Spending, illegal surveillance, fining Americans for lack of healthcare are among the top that I can think of.

Show me one person who can't afford an id card and I'll show you several luxury items that person can live without. The poor here in the states are rich compared to some of the abject poverty I've seen on other continents.

Guy, having a financial cost to voting gets rid of a free election. Your point on poverty is well taken and totally off topic.

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Ya know, first we must recognize facts before we can come to some reasonable solutions.

1. There are several indications of voter fraud in the blue states. Can't take any action on most of it because there's no real records.

2. Nobody is being prevented from voting. It comes down to personal choice and responsibility. If you choose to take $20 out of your welfare check and use it to buy a pack of smokes and a 40 over using it to get an id card so you can prove you're eligible to vote, then that's your choice. Show me one person who can't afford an id card and I'll show you several luxury items that person can live without. The poor here in the states are rich compared to some of the abject poverty I've seen on other continents.

1) actually there is no voter fraud. there is however very good records. If you knew anything about voting records you'd know that your county has available how every constituent voted in the last several election cycles available for party officials to go over so they can pinpoint their voting efforts. How do I know this? I knew a Dem that had voting lists for my area and each voter that they were targeting in a "Get Out and Vote" effort. These records are highly accurate and easily checked for accuracy from the person address to their telephone number.

2) actually that is a lie. In W's first election try. his Bro decided to purge the Florida roles of about 100K potential felons or people that had names similar to felons. Even though they had no evidence that any of the people they purged were felons. Their claim? We haven't heard of anyone not being allowed to vote because of this purge. In steps a county election offical that had her name redacted. Hmmm seems odd that they neglected to mention that one. So, thats 100,000 voters dumped, mostly hispanics and other minorities(democratic voters) Then walks in W with 5000 more names from Texas that may have moved to Florida. And theres the election.

So you want to talk voter fraud. I think this applies and you are correct. Though this systematic method of eliminating democratic leaning voters which again is ILLEGAL but was created and executed by your Party. THe party of old hatefilled white guys.

Facts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Central_Voter_File

Isn't it amazing how our Conservative members of the supreme court conveniently forgot or ignored this.

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

Show me one person who can't afford an id card and I'll show you several luxury items that person can live without. The poor here in the states are rich compared to some of the abject poverty I've seen on other continents.

Guy, having a financial cost to voting gets rid of a free election. Your point on poverty is well taken and totally off topic.

And a free election is a requirement of the Constitution.

As to poverty, you try and live at a minimum wage job in the USA. Don't forget to pay your Obama care medical insurance premium out of that.

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Anything for a pure democracy, right?

That's Proposition 8 for you ...

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Anything for a pure democracy, right?

IMO, better than a plutocracy.

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Nothing pure about prop 8 -- a lot of money running loose there.

The problem with 'pure democracy' -- once money is in the mix (ie from day one) it isn't a pure democracy, and often enough instead it results in demagogues and tyrants.

Guy would like to restrict the right to vote -- fair enough -- but *I* get to say who can't vote <smile>.

Nothing pure about prop 8 -- a lot of money running loose there.

The problem with 'pure democracy' -- once money is in the mix (ie from day one) it isn't a pure democracy, and often enough instead it results in demagogues and tyrants.

So you would ban all campaign advertising? How does this operate with the first amendment?

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