FWIW, I do NOT plan to buy one of these.

I suppose you could fill it with your favorite variety of A*c*h*l or similar ..... ;-)))))))

You know that is the one thing I haven't seen someone model, how to fill it.

You don't actually want to get water or any other liquid near this water tower or a model steam engine. Both of them are full of electronics.

I did recently buy a steam engine that uses fluid to produce smoke from its stack, but I turned that function off. It stinks.

I did not mean put water in the model, but how would a real RR fill the tank. A lot of those tanks from the steam days weren't near a town with a water company. If they were then they didn't need a tank, just a hose. All the models I see have roofs so they aren't filling them with rain. So where is the pump house? Gravity feed from a stream? Run a service train out with a tank car and a pump?

---

FWIW, I do NOT plan to buy one of these.

I suppose you could fill it with your favorite variety of A*c*h*l or similar ..... ;-)))))))

You know that is the one thing I haven't seen someone model, how to fill it.

You don't actually want to get water or any other liquid near this water tower or a model steam engine. Both of them are full of electronics.

I did recently buy a steam engine that uses fluid to produce smoke from its stack, but I turned that function off. It stinks.

I did not mean put water in the model, but how would a real RR fill the tank. A lot of those tanks from the steam days weren't near a town with a water company. If they were then they didn't need a tank, just a hose. All the models I see have roofs so they aren't filling them with rain. So where is the pump house? Gravity feed from a stream? Run a service train out with a tank car and a pump?

My guess would be from windmill that powers a pump from a well or aquifier.

---

[/quote]

Old James

FWIW, I do NOT plan to buy one of these.

I suppose you could fill it with your favorite variety of A*c*h*l or similar ..... ;-)))))))

You know that is the one thing I haven't seen someone model, how to fill it.

You don't actually want to get water or any other liquid near this water tower or a model steam engine. Both of them are full of electronics.

I did recently buy a steam engine that uses fluid to produce smoke from its stack, but I turned that function off. It stinks.

I did not mean put water in the model, but how would a real RR fill the tank. A lot of those tanks from the steam days weren't near a town with a water company. If they were then they didn't need a tank, just a hose. All the models I see have roofs so they aren't filling them with rain. So where is the pump house? Gravity feed from a stream? Run a service train out with a tank car and a pump?

My guess would be from windmill that powers a pump from a well or aquifier.

Here in Naperville, they had a pipe from a pump at the river, nearly a mile away. Other places would have had a well or some other source.

BTW, a mere hose is not adequate. The spouts on those things are huge, a good 6 or 8 inches in diameter so they can dump 10,000 gallons in a few minutes. When a steam engine runs these days, they get a modern fire engine with a 2 or 2.5 inch hose and it still takes upwards of half an hour to fill a tender (which is part of the reason they usually drag around an extra tender). Or they just connect to a hydrant and let it run for a while. UP's yellow auxiliary tenders have standard fire hose connectors at frame level; from there, a pipe runs up to the top and dumps the water into the tank. They carry hoses in the tool/parts car.

---

David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

FWIW, I do NOT plan to buy one of these.

I suppose you could fill it with your favorite variety of A*c*h*l or similar ..... ;-)))))))

You know that is the one thing I haven't seen someone model, how to fill it.

You don't actually want to get water or any other liquid near this water tower or a model steam engine. Both of them are full of electronics.

I did recently buy a steam engine that uses fluid to produce smoke from its stack, but I turned that function off. It stinks.

Clean water and electrickery below 12V will behave quite well together. It is the dirt and or stray ion's that cause people to think water is a conductor of electricity.

I should know I worked on water cooled 10 kW amplifiers that operated at 35kV+.

I'd still rather not get water near the IC chips that generate the sounds and control the operation.

---

David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

FWIW, I do NOT plan to buy one of these.

I suppose you could fill it with your favorite variety of A*c*h*l or similar ..... ;-)))))))

You know that is the one thing I haven't seen someone model, how to fill it.

You don't actually want to get water or any other liquid near this water tower or a model steam engine. Both of them are full of electronics.

I did recently buy a steam engine that uses fluid to produce smoke from its stack, but I turned that function off. It stinks.

I did not mean put water in the model, but how would a real RR fill the tank. A lot of those tanks from the steam days weren't near a town with a water company. If they were then they didn't need a tank, just a hose. All the models I see have roofs so they aren't filling them with rain. So where is the pump house? Gravity feed from a stream? Run a service train out with a tank car and a pump?

My guess would be from windmill that powers a pump from a well or aquifier.

Here in Naperville, they had a pipe from a pump at the river, nearly a mile away. Other places would have had a well or some other source.

BTW, a mere hose is not adequate. The spouts on those things are huge, a good 6 or 8 inches in diameter so they can dump 10,000 gallons in a few minutes. When a steam engine runs these days, they get a modern fire engine with a 2 or 2.5 inch hose and it still takes upwards of half an hour to fill a tender (which is part of the reason they usually drag around an extra tender). Or they just connect to a hydrant and let it run for a while. UP's yellow auxiliary tenders have standard fire hose connectors at frame level; from there, a pipe runs up to the top and dumps the water into the tank. They carry hoses in the tool/parts car.

Hose covers 3 1/2" fire hose at 200 PSI, might move more water than 8" at 8 PSI, about 16 feet vertical water column.

---

FWIW, I do NOT plan to buy one of these.

I suppose you could fill it with your favorite variety of A*c*h*l or similar ..... ;-)))))))

You know that is the one thing I haven't seen someone model, how to fill it.

You don't actually want to get water or any other liquid near this water tower or a model steam engine. Both of them are full of electronics.

I did recently buy a steam engine that uses fluid to produce smoke from its stack, but I turned that function off. It stinks.

I did not mean put water in the model, but how would a real RR fill the tank. A lot of those tanks from the steam days weren't near a town with a water company. If they were then they didn't need a tank, just a hose. All the models I see have roofs so they aren't filling them with rain. So where is the pump house? Gravity feed from a stream? Run a service train out with a tank car and a pump?

My guess would be from windmill that powers a pump from a well or aquifier.

Here in Naperville, they had a pipe from a pump at the river, nearly a mile away. Other places would have had a well or some other source.

BTW, a mere hose is not adequate. The spouts on those things are huge, a good 6 or 8 inches in diameter so they can dump 10,000 gallons in a few minutes. When a steam engine runs these days, they get a modern fire engine with a 2 or 2.5 inch hose and it still takes upwards of half an hour to fill a tender (which is part of the reason they usually drag around an extra tender). Or they just connect to a hydrant and let it run for a while. UP's yellow auxiliary tenders have standard fire hose connectors at frame level; from there, a pipe runs up to the top and dumps the water into the tank. They carry hoses in the tool/parts car.

Hose covers 3 1/2" fire hose at 200 PSI, might move more water than 8" at 8 PSI, about 16 feet vertical water column.

I always understood that the reasoning was that the large overhead tank would be nearly continually filled at a slow rate, but empty into the tender fast, so you don't need a high throughput pump that is expensive both to buy and to run/maintain, whereas a windmill or other low rate pump is relatively a lot cheaper. If you're filling continuously at a slow rate you can cope with the short-lived fast discharges. That was how it was explained to me by a UK rail engineer from the Nine Elms Shunting yard when I asked him as a 10 or 11 year old.

---

Happy Crunching,

Graham

David, as you noted back on the 23rd

Sometimes the California engines come east too.

On the Southwest Chief today from LA



An EMD F59PHI if I am not mistaken. Didn't expect to see one of those!!
Glad I finally managed to get my "motion sensitive" program to work otherwise I would have missed it!!

---

Hose covers 3 1/2" fire hose at 200 PSI, might move more water than 8" at 8 PSI, about 16 feet vertical water column.

Most fire trucks I build have a 2 inch pipe to the front bumper, with a one and a half swivel.
Some also have a bin in the front for a couple of hundred feet of hose.

Fast response, it is called..........

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

FWIW, I do NOT plan to buy one of these.

I suppose you could fill it with your favorite variety of A*c*h*l or similar ..... ;-)))))))

You know that is the one thing I haven't seen someone model, how to fill it.

You don't actually want to get water or any other liquid near this water tower or a model steam engine. Both of them are full of electronics.

I did recently buy a steam engine that uses fluid to produce smoke from its stack, but I turned that function off. It stinks.

I did not mean put water in the model, but how would a real RR fill the tank. A lot of those tanks from the steam days weren't near a town with a water company. If they were then they didn't need a tank, just a hose. All the models I see have roofs so they aren't filling them with rain. So where is the pump house? Gravity feed from a stream? Run a service train out with a tank car and a pump?

My guess would be from windmill that powers a pump from a well or aquifier.

Here in Naperville, they had a pipe from a pump at the river, nearly a mile away. Other places would have had a well or some other source.

BTW, a mere hose is not adequate. The spouts on those things are huge, a good 6 or 8 inches in diameter so they can dump 10,000 gallons in a few minutes. When a steam engine runs these days, they get a modern fire engine with a 2 or 2.5 inch hose and it still takes upwards of half an hour to fill a tender (which is part of the reason they usually drag around an extra tender). Or they just connect to a hydrant and let it run for a while. UP's yellow auxiliary tenders have standard fire hose connectors at frame level; from there, a pipe runs up to the top and dumps the water into the tank. They carry hoses in the tool/parts car.

Hose covers 3 1/2" fire hose at 200 PSI, might move more water than 8" at 8 PSI, about 16 feet vertical water column.

Its not the size of the hose or the pressure that determines Gallons Per Minute.
Its the pump. If the fire truck has a 1500GPM pump thats all your going to get. And if your water source cant deliver that then it wont happen.
As an example. I was the pump operator at a fire scene. We were called as mutual aid. The fire department needed more water. We laid our 3" hose from where ther were to a hydrant A full hose bed away. We connected to the hydrant with a steamer connection and two 2and a half inch hoses. I was in pressure mode at first. I got a call on the radio saying they needed more water. At that time I throttled down and went into volume mode.
When we first tapped into that hydrant my intake gauge read 125 PSI. which is good pressure. But when they kept asking for more water I increaded my throttle. They wanted more so I gave them more. The last call I got asking for more I told them Im at full throttle and my intake gauge is reading zero.
The hazard in doing that is collapsing a main.

Remember that when you double the diameter you increase the area I forget how many times. So an 8" gravity fed water spout could put to shame a modern fire truck.

---

[/quote]

Old James

Remember that when you double the diameter you increase the area I forget how many times

Area of 2" circle = 3.14 sq in

Area of 4" circle = 12.6 sq in

4 times as large. It's the r^2 that does it.

Thanks Chris. I was lazy and didnt want to look it up. But being in the fire service for 20 years we had to know all those formulas and hydrostatic equations. The prblem is I have been out of the fire service for 25 years. What you dont use you lose.

---

[/quote]

Old James

Remember that when you double the diameter you increase the area I forget how many times

Area of 2" circle = 3.14 sq in

Area of 4" circle = 12.6 sq in

4 times as large. It's the r^2 that does it.

Thanks Chris. I was lazy and didnt want to look it up. But being in the fire service for 20 years we had to know all those formulas and hydrostatic equations. The prblem is I have been out of the fire service for 25 years. What you dont use you lose.

With much respect, my friend.
I just build 'em.
I don't know the dynamics of how to use 'em.
I just put the parts together as the engineers specify.

We do get a ton of real life heroes that visit the factory and walk through.
And to see some of them take a look at a pump panel and comment about what they could do with the controls is sometimes most amazing.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

And to see some of them take a look at a pump panel and comment about what they could do with the controls is sometimes most amazing.

Does any of that translate back to design changes?

Oh, very much so, Chris.
If somebody comments that a single knob placement change could somehow improve their response time in any way, the engineers are right on it.
That is part and parcel of the reason that users are so welcomed in the plant and wander about almost at will.

Interesting side note....
We just completed a large double axle fire truck for the Jack Daniel's distillery. A most beautiful black beauty.
Very impressive truck.

Rumor has it that they did a test burn on the Daniel's lot and torched a tank of some 500 gallons of their best. Many employees were in tears.
But, it served a purpose and now they know how best to fight such a fire should it happen in less than controlled circumstances.

Which happens to be with a foam system rather than water alone.
The truck has a HUGE foam nozzle on the aerial platform, which can be thrust into the fire without a human being forced into danger.

Yup, I am blessed with helping create such things.
And I am very proud to know that I, personally, may have saved a life or two along the way.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

David, as you noted back on the 23rd

Sometimes the California engines come east too.

On the Southwest Chief today from LA



An EMD F59PHI if I am not mistaken. Didn't expect to see one of those!!
Glad I finally managed to get my "motion sensitive" program to work otherwise I would have missed it!!

Good catch. Are you watching today as they make their way through the snow?

Graham wrote:

I always understood that the reasoning was that the large overhead tank would be nearly continually filled at a slow rate, but empty into the tender fast, so you don't need a high throughput pump that is expensive both to buy and to run/maintain, whereas a windmill or other low rate pump is relatively a lot cheaper. If you're filling continuously at a slow rate you can cope with the short-lived fast discharges. That was how it was explained to me by a UK rail engineer from the Nine Elms Shunting yard when I asked him as a 10 or 11 year old.

Yes. The same principle applies to any municipal water supply, actually. The big water towers you see standing up like golf balls on tees (do you have those in England?) are filled at the capacity of the well pumps or incoming pipeline, and store enough water to serve peak usage times.

James wrote:

It's not the size of the hose or the pressure that determines Gallons Per Minute.
It's the pump. If the fire truck has a 1500GPM pump that's all you're going to get.

Notice the firehose lying on the ground here?

A couple years ago, when we had visiting steam engines (because we didn't have one of our own working), a fire engine collector brought out a couple of them for the week. That hose was run under the rails to reach the station tracks. I took pictures of them, but I guess I didn't post any to Flickr. One of the engines he brought out was nearly identical to Engine 51 on "Emergency!" I think he said it was a year newer than the TV one.

The little saddletank engine you see in the background is one of the visitors. From the above photo on Flickr, you can scroll a few one way or the other and find a closer shot of it. As a modern convenience, the owners added firehose connections right behind the pilot (the "front bumper"). Further scrolling through my Flickr will find you Leviathan, a replica of a sister to the Jupiter, one of the engines at the Golden Spike ceremony in 1869. (Leviathan was built using the same plans as the Jupiter replica used by the National Park Service to reenact the Golden Spike.) The originals were wood burners; the replicas burn oil.

Now that we have our own steam operating again, it drags around a milk car. It may look like a standard box or express car, but it has two big tanks inside to carry fresh milk to the dairy. We use it for water.

---

David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

Are you watching today as they make their way through the snow?

Well now, there seems to be a little problem. :-)

Can't think why!!



The cameras are supposed to have heaters in but it doesn't seem to be working too well!!

---

Its not the size of the hose or the pressure that determines Gallons Per Minute.
Its the pump. If the fire truck has a 1500GPM pump thats all your going to get. And if your water source cant deliver that then it wont happen.
As an example. I was the pump operator at a fire scene. We were called as mutual aid. The fire department needed more water. We laid our 3" hose from where ther were to a hydrant A full hose bed away. We connected to the hydrant with a steamer connection and two 2and a half inch hoses. I was in pressure mode at first. I got a call on the radio saying they needed more water. At that time I throttled down and went into volume mode.
When we first tapped into that hydrant my intake gauge read 125 PSI. which is good pressure. But when they kept asking for more water I increaded my throttle. They wanted more so I gave them more. The last call I got asking for more I told them Im at full throttle and my intake gauge is reading zero.
The hazard in doing that is collapsing a main.

Remember that when you double the diameter you increase the area I forget how many times. So an 8" gravity fed water spout could put to shame a modern fire truck.

I'll leave you to you level ground fire fighters simplistic world. Although the firefighters here in Southern California on a brush fire with over 1000 feet of elevation difference quickly learn the physics.

Pump specifications always include a head or PSI value http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump#Specifications

Know that pressure is important as it overcomes the resistance of the hose to allow the current of water to flow per second and the current per second times the area of the hose = the volume per second.

And while all this talk of fire trucks in interesting, the original comparison was to a city municipal supply, which obviously puts a firetruck to shame.

---

Its not the size of the hose or the pressure that determines Gallons Per Minute.
Its the pump. If the fire truck has a 1500GPM pump thats all your going to get. And if your water source cant deliver that then it wont happen.
As an example. I was the pump operator at a fire scene. We were called as mutual aid. The fire department needed more water. We laid our 3" hose from where ther were to a hydrant A full hose bed away. We connected to the hydrant with a steamer connection and two 2and a half inch hoses. I was in pressure mode at first. I got a call on the radio saying they needed more water. At that time I throttled down and went into volume mode.
When we first tapped into that hydrant my intake gauge read 125 PSI. which is good pressure. But when they kept asking for more water I increaded my throttle. They wanted more so I gave them more. The last call I got asking for more I told them Im at full throttle and my intake gauge is reading zero.
The hazard in doing that is collapsing a main.

Remember that when you double the diameter you increase the area I forget how many times. So an 8" gravity fed water spout could put to shame a modern fire truck.

I'll leave you to you level ground fire fighters simplistic world. Although the firefighters here in Southern California on a brush fire with over 1000 feet of elevation difference quickly learn the physics.

Pump specifications always include a head or PSI value http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump#Specifications

Know that pressure is important as it overcomes the resistance of the hose to allow the current of water to flow per second and the current per second times the area of the hose = the volume per second.

And while all this talk of fire trucks in interesting, the original comparison was to a city municipal supply, which obviously puts a firetruck to shame.

Granted pressure can overcome friction to a point. Then you run the risk of blowing a hose. And As Ive seen it happen a few times. It not nice. Ive also had a coupling break under pressure.

---

[/quote]

Old James

Despite the snow and temps it seems there are trains running in Chicago today;

This was on the BNSF line from Aurora a little while ago.(Which calls at Naperville)

Despite appearances the F40PH is actually "pushing"

Just love the icicles.

PS to all the people living in or around London the white stuff is snow!



Just a note there are two more lines between the train and camera which haven't been used yet today!

---

Been trying for a while to see this and have been thawated for various reasons, yesterday was a snowed up cameras.

However today it all fell into place.

The City of New Orleans and the City of Chicago



PS for those who really don't know City of New Orleans

---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvMS_ykiLiQ

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Been trying for a while to see this and have been thawated for various reasons, yesterday was a snowed up cameras.

However today it all fell into place.

The City of New Orleans and the City of Chicago



PS for those who really don't know City of New Orleans

Looks like you got the Pullman cars on the rear end too. My friend was the Pullman conductor (not the actual train conductor). That's his regular assignment until he starts doing western charters again in April or May.

Because people can't move between the standard level Pullman cars and the Amtrak Superliners*, the Amtrak conductor or assistant conductor boards the Pullman cars at the Homewood stop so he/she can be at the rear for the reverse move into Union Station.

*There's plenty of room for the hero of a cheesey movie to do it, but it's not safe.

---

David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.