SETI@HOME -- A Victim of it's Own Success?!?


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bill
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Message 1341740 - Posted: 28 Feb 2013, 20:11:06 UTC - in response to Message 1341572.

Another idea for AstroPulse workunits: I assume that the load on the server varies with time of day or night. Are you able to set the server so that it will try to schedule the retries for incomplete downloads of the larger files to be preferably during the less busy times?


The load appears to vary from something greater than 100%
to something a lot greater than 100%. Less busy times are
few and don't occur at regular intervals.

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Message 1341904 - Posted: 1 Mar 2013, 7:49:26 UTC

I've seen some other BOINC projects handle high loads by having only so many server ports that wiil handle downloads, plus several more that will only immediately say to try again later; the active ones get higher priority for connection requests. Would it be practical to try this on SETI@Home?

You might try an intermediate category also, that will handle downloads only of files below a certain size.

On the speed of your connection to the internet: Are you sure all of the hardware along this connection is rated for at least the speed you're trying for? Often, LAN connections have a 1 GB/s speed, but the connection to the rest of the internet is under 10 MB/s.

Locally, one ISP is known for offering fast connections from their local office to users, but an easily overloaded connection from their office to the rest of the internet. You might check for signs your connection has similar problems.

I recently saw a TV program saying that in Chattanooga, TN, US, most of the telephone and internet connections use fiber optics to homes and can handle 1 GB/s. You might want to investigate if there is a source there for equipment for fast connections.

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Message 1342017 - Posted: 1 Mar 2013, 14:41:13 UTC

One thing is clear: a lot of users are uncomfortable with the behaviour of SETI in their computers (I can say: me too).
So if the "star project" of BOINC is making them feel like that, many of them could lose interest and eventually quit. Not only that, many of them could talk about this with future users, something like:
- "hey, did you know about BOINC, community grid computing, the SETI@home project...?"
- "yes, I had the program in my computer some time ago, but SETI didn't work very well because ... so finally I quit"
- "Oh really? it's a pity (so why should I try?)"

I am working in science too and the answer: "we don't have money" don't satisfy me. We never have money! That can't be an excuse!
Is that the real reason?
I can't believe that a project so popular as SETI can't find a way to get money to solve its structural problems.

And if not, maybe SETI should stop accepting users because of the impossibility of handling so huge number of them.
Better 100,000 happy users than 1,000,000 unhappy.

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Message 1342023 - Posted: 1 Mar 2013, 14:54:16 UTC - in response to Message 1342017.


I can't believe that a project so popular as SETI can't find a way to get money to solve its structural problems.

And if not, maybe SETI should stop accepting users because of the impossibility of handling so huge number of them.
Better 100,000 happy users than 1,000,000 unhappy.

When a project as popular as Seti can get more than .27% of you to get off of your high horse and actually contribute supporting funds......

That's right...
.27% of participants.........

Page last updated: 1 Mar 2013, 14:51:03 UTC]

Donations to SETI@home Since 2 Mar 2011:
Number of Donations: 5241
Total Donations: $ 318850.93
Smallest Donation: $ 10.00
Largest Donation: $ 7591.60
Average Donation: $ 60.84
Median Donation: $ 25.00
Donation Rate (per day): $ 436.48
% of Volunteers that have Donated: 0.27%

Monthly Detail: (click on month name for daily detail)

Month Amount Number of Donations Mean Donation
Mar 2011 $6833.00 65 $105.12
Apr 2011 $2508.12 40 $62.70
May 2011 $4319.11 62 $69.66
Jun 2011 $2963.19 46 $64.42
Jul 2011 $1186.00 46 $25.78
Aug 2011 $5356.71 50 $107.13
Sep 2011 $3585.00 29 $123.62
Oct 2011 $48823.59 1120 $43.59
Nov 2011 $24445.25 173 $141.30
Dec 2011 $53927.38 1144 $47.14
Jan 2012 $12425.85 139 $89.39
Feb 2012 $18266.78 61 $299.46
Mar 2012 $5155.64 76 $67.84
Apr 2012 $5097.17 61 $83.56
May 2012 $2638.50 38 $69.43
Jun 2012 $3652.02 34 $107.41
Jul 2012 $1781.13 45 $39.58
Aug 2012 $9302.95 58 $160.40
Sep 2012 $1795.00 38 $47.24
Oct 2012 $45833.93 862 $53.17
Nov 2012 $9701.60 214 $45.33
Dec 2012 $42526.32 733 $58.02
Jan 2013 $4812.00 77 $62.49
Feb 2013 $1899.69 29 $65.51
Mar 2013 $15.00 1 $15.00
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msattler
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Message 1342029 - Posted: 1 Mar 2013, 15:06:56 UTC
Last modified: 1 Mar 2013, 15:09:13 UTC

I started my 84 cents a month fundraiser to appeal to folks that think they cannot make a difference by donating a small amount to the project.

Two cans of kitty food a month. $10.00 a year.

I think my response was even less than the .27 percent of overall contributions.

Don't say I didn't try.

I do more crunching here than 99.99% of participants. And have contributed way more than those who wish just to comment on the situation and do nothing else.

I am not made of money, and do not suppose that most of you are either.

But, consider the 84 cents a month deal. If you can run a computer to crunch Seti, you CAN afford a couple of kitty food tin's worth of donation to the project.

Don't think 'Oooh, $10.00 is not gonna help much, so I won't bother..'

If I could budge enough of you off of your collective arses to just give that much.......
Like I said before.
Our trouble is with our numbers. And that is a good thing.
But, our solution is also with our numbers.
It does not take a lot out of any individual's pocket to make this work if you will all just take that moment to send $10.00 to Seti.
There are sooooooooooooooo many of you who can.

Make this work, kitties and kittyettes. It is OUR project to support.

A sincere appeal from Mark and the kitties.

And to show you I speak with my heart and not just with my mouth, I am now sending in a $100.00 to Seti as we speak.
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msattler
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Message 1342034 - Posted: 1 Mar 2013, 15:21:20 UTC

My receipt for the donation is in my 84 cents thread.
So, can some of you follow me?

No need to match the $100.00 I sent in.

I only asked for $10.00 each from a lot of you, and you can easily surpass that.

Like I said, our strength can be in our numbers, if you would just make it so.
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Message 1342074 - Posted: 1 Mar 2013, 17:03:01 UTC - in response to Message 1342029.

I started my 84 cents a month fundraiser to appeal to folks that think they cannot make a difference by donating a small amount to the project.


Something possibly sig-worthy along this line. :^) That whole site is sig-worthy.

Hope they finally get back to me on what's needed for the next fundraiser... been waiting for months.
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bill
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Message 1342086 - Posted: 1 Mar 2013, 17:23:04 UTC - in response to Message 1342017.

One thing is clear: a lot of users are uncomfortable with the behaviour of SETI in their computers


Your assumption is incorrect. The number of complainers
here is statistically insignificant compared to the number
of users crunching SAH.

That is not to say there isn't a problem, it's just that
the vast majority could care less, hence the dearth of donations.

msattler
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Message 1342093 - Posted: 1 Mar 2013, 17:39:14 UTC - in response to Message 1342086.
Last modified: 1 Mar 2013, 17:39:53 UTC

One thing is clear: a lot of users are uncomfortable with the behaviour of SETI in their computers


Your assumption is incorrect. The number of complainers
here is statistically insignificant compared to the number
of users crunching SAH.

That is not to say there isn't a problem, it's just that
the vast majority could care less, hence the dearth of donations.

If the majority would give a shit, there would be more donations, and thence and thereforth, continues success of the project.

You just don't get it do you???

If the vast majority just gave something. More than the .27 percent that have given to date.

ANYTHING more. The project would be drowning in servers and bandwidth.


What are you saying to me here, exactly?

"Your assumption is incorrect. The number of complainers
here is statistically insignificant compared to the number
of users crunching SAH."

Something other than I have already stated??
OR maybe I have confused betwixed a few posts.
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Yacob
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Message 1342102 - Posted: 1 Mar 2013, 17:52:11 UTC

So, can some of you follow me?

I put my 30 bucks on the table.
Now what? Did anything change?
Is SETI who has to fix the problem. I can't get the money for them.
Maybe they have to communicate better what they need. I didn't even see in the home the notice: "SETI@home needs your help" to get donations.


bill
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Message 1342104 - Posted: 1 Mar 2013, 17:54:19 UTC - in response to Message 1342093.

One thing is clear: a lot of users are uncomfortable with the behaviour of SETI in their computers


Your assumption is incorrect. The number of complainers
here is statistically insignificant compared to the number
of users crunching SAH.

That is not to say there isn't a problem, it's just that
the vast majority could care less, hence the dearth of donations.

If the majority would give a shit, there would be more donations, and thence and thereforth, continues success of the project.

You just don't get it do you???


I think you need to reread what I said, in context.

If the vast majority just gave something. More than the .27 percent that have given to date.

ANYTHING more. The project would be drowning in servers and bandwidth.



What are you saying to me here, exactly?

"Your assumption is incorrect. The number of complainers
here is statistically insignificant compared to the number
of users crunching SAH."


I wasn't saying anything to you. I was pointing something out to
a previous poster.

Something other than I have already stated??
OR maybe I have confused betwixed a few posts.


Since I happen to be in agreement with you about current funding,
I can only think that you are confused.

msattler
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Message 1342109 - Posted: 1 Mar 2013, 18:09:18 UTC
Last modified: 1 Mar 2013, 18:14:53 UTC

Point is......to all and whoever wants to dismiss me.

I have been at this longer than most of you.

And, have contributed more than most of you.
Not just in terms of creds, but in terms of dollars.

Yes, I have contributed BOTH.......processing power and a couple of bucks on the side.

So, you cannot give me this bullshit argument that 'Oooh, I am contributing my computer's power cycle, so I have nothing more to give.'
\
Bullshit. If you can front a Seti computer, and pay the bills to keep it running, you can also spare another ten dollars to the project in cash.

You cannot bs me. There is NO excuse for not having a green star and openly professing your claim to supporting this project.

This is my stance. Like it or not...
You have a green star, or you have no right to complain.

I recognize the right of a few lost souls that wish to contribute, but don't wish to be recognized. For the love of God, I do not know why,


And I really have complained about this crap again and again and again.

You have not responded.\\\

I am done asking.

You don't wanna answer me........
Ok, I am gone too.
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Message 1342124 - Posted: 1 Mar 2013, 18:20:43 UTC

I hear what you say Mark, but it is Friday night again ........

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Message 1342139 - Posted: 1 Mar 2013, 18:46:20 UTC

And I'm waiting for my green star to re-ignite
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msattler
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Message 1342141 - Posted: 1 Mar 2013, 18:49:36 UTC - in response to Message 1342124.

I hear what you say Mark, but it is Friday night again ........


And you think that gives any less significance to what I say?

Geez, Chris.
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Message 1342142 - Posted: 1 Mar 2013, 18:51:46 UTC
Last modified: 1 Mar 2013, 18:53:33 UTC

Hiyah Rob, glad to see the troops are around :-)

@Mark - not at all. I've supported you around here more times than I have had hot dinners, and will continue to do so. But you know what I mean.

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Message 1342146 - Posted: 1 Mar 2013, 18:57:28 UTC - in response to Message 1342142.

You eat a lootta' cold food then, eh?
Supporting me.
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rob smith
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Message 1342151 - Posted: 1 Mar 2013, 19:03:18 UTC

Salads Rool OK...

And I do think that S@H is a victim of its own success, because if it weren't so successful there wouldn't be the made rush for tasks, and there would be a bit of spare bandwidth to feed the kitties....
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Message 1342153 - Posted: 1 Mar 2013, 19:09:55 UTC
Last modified: 1 Mar 2013, 19:23:59 UTC

Matt has made remarkable progress in tuning the Schedular, I no longer see
any posts from anyone (except Grant:-) that they have problems contacting the schedular.

The Schedular has been responsive during AP's and shorties with the resulting
issue being Download problems. Now that everyone is getting Tasks the bottleneck which used to be the schedular is now Downloads ( I know its always been downloads) but the Schedular masked this to a large extent.

I have been working with TCPOptimize (cdemers put me on to this) to get my downloads (nonexistent unless using a Proxy, Proxy works fine now) to work
with direct connects. With some tweaks to TCP/IP on Windows 7 using TCPOptimize
Windows direct connect is now almost as good as a Proxy, AP is 8KB download
while MB are 7 to 11KB. only one retry with the AP.

Once I am satisfied that the changes do not interfere with anything else
(My first attemp prevented T4T Jabber from working) I will update the users with a Green STAR with the changes:-) Might this help with donations I hope so.

EDIT - I probably let the kitten out of the bag just by saying there is a solution:-) - Also Thanks TBar for your confirmation that Linux/Unix TCP/IP
works much better than Windows TCP/IP out of the box when talking to SETI

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Message 1342203 - Posted: 1 Mar 2013, 21:01:20 UTC

You have a green star, or you have no right to complain.


I choose NOT to have my green star displayed so NOT having a green star means NOTHING!!

And you think that gives any less significance to what I say?


No but the next remark devalues you in my eyes.


And, have contributed more than most of you.
Not just in terms of creds, but in terms of dollars.


You are no one special on this project, many many people have done lots for this project and do not take the liberty's you do.

Try and get people to donate great! Telling them how great you have been will NOT get people on you side.

Certainly turns me off.
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