Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects: DENIAL


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Message boards : Politics : Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects: DENIAL

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Message 1359818 - Posted: 22 Apr 2013, 13:17:25 UTC - in response to Message 1359744.

... Hence, the CO2 concentration controls the warming effect that is then amplified by the effect of water vapour in response to that concentration of CO2.


And Mankind is directly changing the concentration of CO2...


All on our only one planet,
Martin

-1!!

Care to explain?


Or is your "-1!!" just an indication that you don't want all that to be happening?

All on our only one planet,
Martin

-1 because I do not agree with you....see my many-many previous threads.

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Message 1359833 - Posted: 22 Apr 2013, 13:57:39 UTC - in response to Message 1359818.

-1 because I do not agree with you....see my many-many previous threads.

So, according to you, "CO2" somehow "doesn't happen"? Regardless of reality?


Still the only one planet we have,
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Message 1359835 - Posted: 22 Apr 2013, 14:02:51 UTC - in response to Message 1359833.

-1 because I do not agree with you....see my many-many previous threads.

So, according to you, "CO2" somehow "doesn't happen"? Regardless of reality?


Still the only one planet we have,
Martin

Hey Martin, you've really dredged the bottom of the barrel with that statement.



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Message 1359850 - Posted: 22 Apr 2013, 14:30:02 UTC - in response to Message 1359835.

-1 because I do not agree with you....see my many-many previous threads.

So, according to you, "CO2" somehow "doesn't happen"? Regardless of reality?

Hey Martin, you've really dredged the bottom of the barrel with that statement.

Then sorry, I miss your meaning.

I'd welcome some good news that we can pollute our planet with impunity and without a care in the world.

Or are you saying that we should pollute our planet so that we are swept away by our own deeds...?


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Message 1359930 - Posted: 22 Apr 2013, 17:40:03 UTC - in response to Message 1359523.

Before our Industrial Revolution, the various natural "outpourings" of CO2 had balanced with the rest of the natural environment on Earth such that the concentration of CO2 had become stable. That is, the atmospheric concentration had stayed pretty much steady for 'a very long time'.


See the level of around 7000 ppm, today it is around 300.
Not at all stable over 'a very long time.' more like extremely variable over a long time.
If anything man is responsible for a massive drop in CO2 levels far below the average level that should be in our atmosphere. That or nature isn't putting out near as much today as she has in the past and we don't know how she did that.
Now was there an ocean and lots of surface water over the time period of the chart? If so, then the global temperature with a concentration of 7000 should be what, near the boiling point? Was it?
Of course if you call 'a very long time' ten years or so and don't go back more than a couple hundred years, you can produce prodigious volumes of FUD.

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Message 1359945 - Posted: 22 Apr 2013, 18:02:46 UTC

Does appear from the graph Gary that 3-400 ppm seams to be about the minimum
Co2 has ever been. During the early part of the neolithic period CO2 starts
to rise again. So evidently Co2 seems destined to rise again to some degree
perhaps to a 1000 or a little bit more or it may just steady out to around 500ppm.

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Message 1360041 - Posted: 22 Apr 2013, 22:25:39 UTC

Gary your forgetting that 600million yrs ago the earth had no land animals the earth was still evolveing and then there was the snow ball earth
at approx. 600 mil 450 mil 250 mil then at approx. 150 mil you had dinosours but for last 10 mil then co2 has been low compeared to then , so man hasn't droped the co2 scince man aproxx 7,000 yrs has been civilised burning fuels the co2 has been going up but only scince 1800
If co2 goes up it will probably turn into a ice age that mite end up with another snowball earth not it heating up to boiling point.
people also forget the land masses where in different places or joined togeather to make 1 gaint land mass all these things affect the atmosphere
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Message 1360043 - Posted: 22 Apr 2013, 22:33:44 UTC - in response to Message 1360041.
Last modified: 22 Apr 2013, 22:36:13 UTC

Gary your forgetting that 600million yrs ago the earth had no land animals the earth was still evolveing and then there was the snow ball earth
at approx. 600 mil 450 mil 250 mil then at approx. 150 mil you had dinosours but for last 10 mil then co2 has been low compeared to then , so man hasn't droped the co2 scince man aproxx 7,000 yrs has been civilised burning fuels the co2 has been going up but only scince 1800
If co2 goes up it will probably turn into a ice age that mite end up with another snowball earth not it heating up to boiling point.
people also forget the land masses where in different places or joined togeather to make 1 gaint land mass all these things affect the atmosphere

Looking at Gary's graph it appears that Co2 started to rise again 25 Million years ago but not as abruptly as evident in previous periods of rising Co2.
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Message 1360050 - Posted: 22 Apr 2013, 22:43:37 UTC - in response to Message 1360043.

I think Nick that is a big statement to make seeing as the graph is not accurate enough to say that and only 1 is high the rest of the graph is low
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Message 1360051 - Posted: 22 Apr 2013, 22:44:02 UTC - in response to Message 1360041.

Gary your forgetting that 600million yrs ago the earth had no land animals

So somehow land animals, except man, absorb tons and tons of CO2! Good one.

snow ball earth

With high CO2 levels? Another good one.

people also forget the land masses where in different places

Now that one may have some reality. We may still be in the damp down of the oscillation from the last major such event, the separation of Antarctica from the rest of the land mass. Then again ice is accumulating at the south pole. However to accept this, ocean currents would have to play the largest role in the temperature, considerably larger than CO2 levels.


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Message 1360052 - Posted: 22 Apr 2013, 22:46:45 UTC

I thought it was strange and clever that in the movie A I it shows the Earth as a snowball at the end , clearly somebody had there thinking cap on in that 1 sorry a bit off topic .
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Message 1360056 - Posted: 22 Apr 2013, 22:50:39 UTC - in response to Message 1360050.
Last modified: 22 Apr 2013, 22:55:25 UTC

I think Nick that is a big statement to make seeing as the graph is not accurate enough to say that and only 1 is high the rest of the graph is low

Hang around for a couple of million years and it might become a bit clearer, Glen.
The vertical blue lines with dots must be shorts events of extreme Co2 well above
normal trend line. I wonder what major events caused these high outburst's of Co2.
Possibly volcanic eruptions or multiple high level earth quakes.
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Message 1360057 - Posted: 22 Apr 2013, 22:52:20 UTC - in response to Message 1360051.

Your twisting wot I was saying

So somehow land animals, except man, absorb tons and tons of CO2! Good one.


snow ball earth

there was no land animals 600mil yrs ago

So how does calcium carbonate form then i think that's the right mineral
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Message 1360060 - Posted: 22 Apr 2013, 23:00:59 UTC - in response to Message 1360057.

So how does calcium carbonate form then i think that's the right mineral

If that is the answer, long before man, mother nature killed off the "animals" that "make" it. We don't eat that many clams.


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Message 1360061 - Posted: 22 Apr 2013, 23:09:25 UTC - in response to Message 1360060.

Then there is the fact plants where still evolving .OF corse the Antartic peninsular is heating faster than any other place and the winds and currents couldn't be pushing ice to the other side na i'm just imagining that and the report by the boffin's that just came back couldn't be all rong could they
. Yes they could Glen your a iddiot mate .......yes I spose I am
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Message 1360064 - Posted: 22 Apr 2013, 23:25:51 UTC - in response to Message 1360041.

Gary your forgetting that 600million yrs ago the earth had no land animals the earth was still evolveing and then there was the snow ball earth
at approx. 600 mil 450 mil 250 mil then at approx. 150 mil you had dinosours but for last 10 mil then co2 has been low compeared to then , so man hasn't droped the co2 scince man aproxx 7,000 yrs has been civilised burning fuels the co2 has been going up but only scince 1800
If co2 goes up it will probably turn into a ice age that mite end up with another snowball earth not it heating up to boiling point.
people also forget the land masses where in different places or joined togeather to make 1 gaint land mass all these things affect the atmosphere

Glen, having a quick scout around the web I see that life exploded upon the
earth around 525 million years ago. With most land and sea specious having been
formed only to be mostly wiped out 25 million years later. All this occurring
during a period of very high Co2 levels.

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Message 1360068 - Posted: 22 Apr 2013, 23:37:12 UTC - in response to Message 1360064.

Nick did any of those animals walk on land 500 odd mil yrs ago .Where there grasses then ...or was there only jungles , where were the land masses all this has to be figured into it
Fact that co2 has been going up significanly from the start of the industral era I spose we should not worry about . ok
If the planet does go rouge and turn into a snow ball don't come here to live we don't wont you freeze where you are i'll be up north near the "dam my spelling prob " 0 degrees place where it should be just warm enough to live
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Message 1360076 - Posted: 23 Apr 2013, 0:03:04 UTC - in response to Message 1360068.
Last modified: 23 Apr 2013, 0:30:15 UTC

Nick did any of those animals walk on land 500 odd mil yrs ago .Where there grasses then ...or was there only jungles , where were the land masses all this has to be figured into it
Fact that co2 has been going up significanly from the start of the industral era I spose we should not worry about . ok
If the planet does go rouge and turn into a snow ball don't come here to live we don't wont you freeze where you are i'll be up north near the "dam my spelling prob " 0 degrees place where it should be just warm enough to live

Most probably all types of vegetation growing then according to the web. Unless
the earth's fundamentals have changed since the last ice age then another ice
age will occur at some point in the future man's or no man's hand in it.
Whether the next ice age covers the Earth totally, partially or just the 30%
it did last time then no one knows. So where will life survive during the next
ice age here your hunch is as good as mine. One thing for sure and that is, during
ice ages Co2 drops to exceeding low levels just like they are today. So, does
rising Co2 levels lead on to ice ages or do falling Co2 levels lead on to ice ages?

Out of interest, one thing to look for weather wise as a guide to a possible
ice age starting is to monitor precipitation. If rain fall levels start to drop
off and precipitation is mainly vis snow falling then we're heading into an
ice age. Seems that this is caused by the atmosphere having lost a very large
part of it's water content, that part that helps predominantly to keep the
Earth warm.

The vexed question is, "What causes the atmosphere to loose more water than
it takes up"? Is it rising levels of Co2 or falling levels of Co2? Or, does
Co2 play no part in this but it has more to do with the periodic rise and then
fall in the suns temperature?
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Message 1360077 - Posted: 23 Apr 2013, 0:14:17 UTC - in response to Message 1360076.

Nick ya got 1hr to convinve me till I turn this machine off to upgrade it (chip ,memory, 64 bit op )so go for it ill be here till then
As for your last post you sort of answered it yourself but the ice cores do say ice first then lower co2
You are right that co2 can drop to far that is why they think the end of the snowball era's was caused by super volcanoes erupting to push co2 back up enough to melt the ice
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Message 1360083 - Posted: 23 Apr 2013, 0:34:45 UTC - in response to Message 1360077.
Last modified: 23 Apr 2013, 0:36:21 UTC

Nick ya got 1hr to convinve me till I turn this machine off to upgrade it (chip ,memory, 64 bit op )so go for it ill be here till then
As for your last post you sort of answered it yourself but the ice cores do say ice first then lower co2
You are right that co2 can drop to far that is why they think the end of the snowball era's was caused by super volcanoes erupting to push co2 back up enough to melt the ice

Not trying to convince you either way Glen but just debating the issue. So much
needs to be discovered here in this science.

Out of interest Glen, what were the levels of Co2 at the commencement of each
ice age?
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